What is truth

[Blastcat]

Hi guys and gals,

This one goes out to all of my theistic friends.
Apologists and simple Christian folks often talk about knowing "truth" a lot.. but now, I have to wonder what they mean by the term.

Could you help me out?
What is the truth, how do you define it, and do you care about it?

Some people don't care about the truth.
Some people say they love the truth, and that their beliefs are true.

Then I realize.. maybe I don't know what they MEAN when they use the word "TRUTH"

Smile

[JehovahsWitness]

The Hebrew term emeth, often rendered truth, may designate that which is firm, trustworthy, stable, faithful, true, or established as fact.

Bible Encylopedia Vol II p. 1130-1131
http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1200004483#h=2

I think the above is a good solid definition.


JW

[Elijah John]

Hi guys and gals,

This one goes out to all of my theistic friends.
Apologists and simple Christian folks often talk about knowing "truth" a lot.. but now, I have to wonder what they mean by the term.

Could you help me out?
What is the truth, how do you define it, and do you care about it?

Some people don't care about the truth.
Some people say they love the truth, and that their beliefs are true.

Then I realize.. maybe I don't know what they MEAN when they use the word "TRUTH"

Smile

It has always bothered me when folks say "Jesus IS the truth" . It would be better, imo, if it was said that "Jesus TELLS the truth.

"Jesus is the truth" sounds circular to me.

Truth being more commonly understood as what is "real and factual".

[Elijah John]

Also, "truth" can mean, (and all too often does) "my interpretation" of Scripture.

[Zzyzx]

.

Also, "truth" can mean, (and all too often does) "my interpretation" of Scripture.

That seems to be a common (near universal?) theistic use of the term TRUTH " which renders the term useless or worse (counter productive). It implies that truth (which in general use is taken to mean something like That which conforms to reality, fact, or actuality) becomes whatever is said most recently or loudest or whatever I want to believe or whatever my religious sect says is true.

When esoteric / personal / religious definitions of commonly used words are injected into discussion, reasoned debate becomes difficult or improbable.

[Blastcat]

The Hebrew term emeth, often rendered truth, may designate that which is firm, trustworthy, stable, faithful, true, or established as fact.

Bible Encylopedia Vol II p. 1130-1131
http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1200004483#h=2

I think the above is a good solid definition.


JW

Hey, that's great.
I wonder if you could also say if you care about the truth?

And if so, how much ?

On a scale of 0 to 100, where 0 is you don't care at all about truth in any way, and 100 would be you could not possibly care MORE about the truth.

I think that's really important to know.

[Blastcat]

[Replying to post 5 by Zzyzx]

Hey Z.

They FEEL that their fantasies are REEL
.

When esoteric / personal / religious definitions of commonly used words are injected into discussion, reasoned debate becomes difficult or improbable.

I was going to mention the possible different KINDS of "truth" such as "subjective truth" or "objective truth"... From what I can tell, religious beliefs fall into the category of "subjective" truth. I think that's what you're talking about?

Religious people often seem to IMPLY objective truth.. when they REALLY mean "subjective" ... it's all very PERSONAL .. a relationship, a feeling that they can't really EXPLAIN very well.... yeah, like the reason I prefer Chocolate Ice Cream over Vanilla.. that's something TRUE about me that is also very hard to "EXPLAIN".

It's personal, its a chocolatey relationship, it's a feeling, it's SUBJECTIVE. And when People speak about the truth of their religious experiences, they do mean something subjective.

But so many religious people don't seem to be capable to say it that way. They often will even go so far as to CAPITALIZE the word "truth" .. as if it were an objective fact that they are talking about, and not some subjective ... something or other.

I think post-modernism has had a very successful marketing campaign. Everything these days is "TRUE FOR ME"... complete relativism is EVERYWHERE.. and it doesn't surprise me at all that it's infected religions, too. The really clever bit is that the specious reasoning is like VOLDERMORT.. we should never use it's name.

Hiding in plain sight.

Do I think that religious people are talking about the truth? I do believe that, very much. Do I think it's objective truth? Not one BIT.

It's all subjective, this religion business.
Well, the bingos and the charity are objectively real enough... but the beliefs themselves are ... ghosts.

I think the quote below explains what I'm trying to say much better:

"Postmodern philosophy is often particularly skeptical about simple binary oppositions characteristic of structuralism, emphasizing the problem of the philosopher cleanly distinguishing knowledge from ignorance, social progress from reversion, dominance from submission, good from bad, and presence from absence"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postmodern_philosophy

Truth from fantasy?

[Elijah John]

.

Also, "truth" can mean, (and all too often does) "my interpretation" of Scripture.

That seems to be a common (near universal?) theistic use of the term TRUTH " which renders the term useless or worse (counter productive). It implies that truth (which in general use is taken to mean something like That which conforms to reality, fact, or actuality) becomes whatever is said most recently or loudest or whatever I want to believe or whatever my religious sect says is true.

When esoteric / personal / religious definitions of commonly used words are injected into discussion, reasoned debate becomes difficult or improbable.

Well said. From all too many believers "truth" is subjective and biased to personal interpretation.

Although interpretation is denied, many claim their interpretation is just the "plain meaning" of Scripture.

[Elijah John]

[Replying to post 7 by Blastcat]

Ironic, in that many believers preach against subjectivism and preach that truth is objective and eternal.

I agree that truth is objective and eternal, but our apprehension of it, our understanding of it, and our interpretation of truth, is often subjective.

[JehovahsWitness]

On a scale of 0 to 100, where 0 is you don't care at all about truth in any way, and 100 would be you could not possibly care MORE about the truth.

I think that's really important to know.

Sure I care about truth. Your scale is silly, I'm not in kindergarden I won't give you a number.

You're welcome,

JW