How many REAL Christians?

[Zzyzx]

.
Christians are said to represent 70% of the US population. However, many Christians who debate here (and speak elsewhere) declare that some fellow Christians are Not REAL Christians. Since there is no consensus in Christendom regarding requirements / criteria for real status, individuals and groups seem inclined to make up whatever suits their position " and apply their opinion in judging fellow Christians.

A self-declared REAL Christian Protestant may declare that Catholics are not real while RCC may say the Protestants are not " thus eliminating each other. Some posters deny real status to Eastern Orthodox, LDS, JW, 7th Day, Amish, Holy Rollers, Snake Handlers, Westboro Baptist, KKK, and/or other sects / denominations / groups " based on their personal opinion.

A cumulative total of sects denied real status seems to eliminate nearly every Christian (except the speaker's chosen sect, of course). How many are left? Would 5% or 10% be a good guess? If so, that would be LESS than the percentage of the US population who declare no religious affiliation (20%) including Atheists (2%) and Agnostics (3%). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irreligio ... ted_States

It should be kept in mind that Christians are not truthful in surveys about church attendance. Forty percent tell surveyors they attend regularly while church attendance statistics indicate that only 20% actually attend.

Can the 20% who actually attend church regularly be considered REAL Christians? If so their numbers about equal the no religious affiliation group. Are some regular attendees NOT Real Christians (but attend church for appearances, under duress, or whatever)? Are some who do not attend church actually Real Christians? How are such matters decided? What individual or group is authorized to judge?

Does the whole issue seem like a schoolyard inclusion / exclusion game?

[Elijah John]

It's not their fault, and we JWs are doing our very best to help as many of those that are sincere in their desire to become real Christians [/i]

So then, it's fair to say that you are claiming that only some (the sincere ones) Jehovah's Witnesses are "real Christians" and that everyone else is not?

That one has to be a member of the JW organization in order to be a "real Christian" in your opinion?

I know Christ claims that salvation and the path of Life is the "Straight and Narrow"...but you and your sect are making it even more exclusionary.

Aren't you attempting to put limits on the love, grace and mercy of God?

And didn't Jesus blast the Pharisees for essentially the same thing?

Getting hung up on details of doctrine instead of embracing the Spirit, the internal essence and expansive love of God?

So, if one gets a detail of doctrine or theology wrong, they are apparently lost to oblivion according the JW worldview. (correct me if I'm wrong)

Then one had better pray that one never makes a mistake in any aspect of doctrine,...as say.. Jesus supposedly being the incarnate Michael the Archangel?

Seems a heavy yoke to bear.

[JehovahsWitness]

So then, it's fair to say that you are claiming that only some (the sincere ones) Jehovah's Witnesses are "real Christians" and that everyone else is not?

I don't quite understand the question with regard to sincerity. I believe that there are sincere people that love God in all religions and even those that have no religion, but unfortunately they do not have an accurate knowledge of God or what it means to be a Christian - they are doing their best but their best doesn't make what they are doing or believing correct.

They are sincere and God loves them and through the preachng work of Jehovah's Witnesses, He (God) is reaching out to them to help them learn what it means to be a "real Christian". But no, at the moment they are as much "real Christians" as someone in kindergarden is a "real doctor". Not their fault, not a measure of their value as humans, this does not mean God doesn't love such ones and no, I don't believe God will destroy or condemn them for their ignorance. But none of that makes them know what they don't know or be what they cannot know how to be.

That one has to be a member of the JW organization in order to be a "real Christian" in your opinion? ...

At the present time, yes, I believe so.

I know Christ claims that salvation and the path of Life is the "Straight and Narrow"...but you and your sect are making it even more exclusionary.

You are the one that have equated religious organizations to the above scripture not me. If that's how you interpret the above scripture, that's fine, but I do not.

So, if one gets a detail of doctrine or theology wrong, they are apparently lost to oblivion according the JW worldview. (correct me if I'm wrong)

I don't know how you got this idea but I will do you the service of correcting you as requested, no, that is not the JW worldview. I do believe I have posted something earlier in this thread on the subject of infallibility.

I'll ignore the rest of your questions because I found most of them insulting and I presume they were rhetorical and a vehicle for you to rant.




Have a most excellent day,

JEHOVAHS WITNESS

[Blastcat]

[Replying to post 47 by JehovahsWitness]

Being a Christian is not just about "loving God or Jesus" neither is it imho, believing in them (or being sincere), its about having an accurate knowledge of what Christ expects of his followers (ie having the right information) and puting that information into practice.

Accurate information about Christ seems to be in the hands of the JW, and ONLY the JW, in your opinion?

Hows that?

If those outside of the one true Christian organization had the correct informaiton as to present day Christianity and were putting that into practice, they would imo be Jehovah's Witnesses and working along with us in the designated work Jesus expects of his followers to do today.

If you believe that the ONE TRUE CHRISTIAN ORGANIZATION is the Jehovah's Witnesses, then it seems to me that to you, it is.

To others, it's not.

You seem to be telling us that you believe what you believe.
That makes sense.

[Blastcat]

[Replying to post 51 by JehovahsWitness]

I believe that there are sincere people that love God in all religions and even those that have no religion, but unfortunately they do not have an accurate knowledge of God or what it means to be a Christian - they are doing their best but their best doesn't make what they are doing or believing correct.

You believe that you have accurate knowledge of God.
Get in line. there are lots of other religious folks claiming the same darn thing.

BUT.. you do believe what you believe.

That one has to be a member of the JW organization in order to be a "real Christian" in your opinion? ...

At the present time, yes, I believe so.

Well, that makes you a real believer.

I suppose that's accurate information about YOU... and your beliefs.. I am NOT so convinced that what you BELIEVE in is accurate information about ANYTHING. In MY opinion, your beliefs are about as INACCURATE as can be.

Here's a question that you can answer if you like :

Why should anyone BELIEVE that you have accurate information about God?

[JehovahsWitness]

Why should anyone BELIEVE that you have accurate information about God?

They shouldn't. They should imho however, examine the evidence around them to see if there is a God and then seek to find that one by at the very least examining one of, if not the most widely circulated holy book in history: The bible.

I believe God himself will help sincere people that seek accurate information find him - and strongly encourage those so inclined to put him to the test.


JEHOVAHS WITNESS


Further information: Why study the bible?

[youtube][/youtube]

[Elijah John]

I'll ignore the rest of your questions because I found most of them insulting and I presume they were rhetorical and a vehicle for you to rant.

I understand why you want to doge this, as the comparison to the Pharisees that Jesus attacked is bound to make one uncomfortable.

Still, that is what you, your organization, and all who say "we have the only way" are doing.

They are placing limits on the expansive love, grace and mercy of God.

JW's are not much different than Evangelicals in this regard, and quite similar to the Pharisees and legalists of Jesus day, imo.

Also, I understand why you dodge the question of Michael the Archangel being the pre-existent Jesus.

A flimsy doctrine that belies your organization's claim to have the "accurate knowledge of God".

In that detail, at least.

So, what happens to JW salvation if they are wrong in that detail?

[Blastcat]

[Replying to post 54 by JehovahsWitness]

Hi, JehovahsWitness

For once, we agree....

We shouldn't believe that ANYONE has accurate information about God

Why should anyone BELIEVE that you have accurate information about God?

They shouldn't. They should imho however, examine the evidence around them to see if there is a God

I don't see any evidence for a god.. any god.
But you now say that we SHOULD NOT believe that you have any accurate information about God.

I will REMEMBER THAT.

But I already DIDN'T believe that you had, you know.
I do believe that you SAY IT A LOT, though.

and then seek to find that one by at the very least examining one of, if not the most widely circulated holy book in history: The bible.

Did that, been there, keep doing it, keep not finding any evidence for any god of any kind in it. Why should we believe there is any accurate information about God in THAT book?

I believe God himself will help sincere people

Impugning my sincerity does NOT increase the credibility of your beliefs.
And as you say, I should not believe that you have accurate information about God.

that seek accurate information find him -

You say that nobody SHOULD believe that you have accurate information about God.

and strongly encourage those so inclined to put him to the test.

But as you say, we shouldn't take your word for it that you have accurate information about God. It's extremely likely that your god doesn't exist, and is IMPOSSIBLE to put to the "test".

Further information: Why study the bible?

Thanks for the link, but:
Why should anyone believe that ANYONE has accurate information about God?

[1213]

How many REAL Christians?

If we believe what Jesus says, there is probably only few, because:

How narrow is the gate, and restricted is the way that leads to life! Few are those who find it.
Matt. 7:14

For many are called, but few chosen.
Matt. 22:14

[Zzyzx]

.

How many REAL Christians?

If we believe what Jesus says, there is probably only few, because:

The Forum must be very fortunate to have some of those few as members . . .

Or is it that most Christians (billions of them) think THEY are among the few and that others are not? Perhaps it is a bit of self-interest speaking?

[JehovahsWitness]

I don't see any evidence for a god.. any god.

Then that's fine, you've done what I'm encouraging people to do that's excellent! You're happy (I presume) with your conclusion, I'm happy you're happy if you are.

My personal belief is that God is looking for those that are not happy with their spiritual situation and JEHOVAHS WITNESSES believe it is our mission to point such ones in what we believe to be the right direction; indeed that outreach work is what we believe is one of the marks of a "real Christianity". If we come across those that remain unconvinced by what we have to say, we have absolutely no problem with that, and happily move on to the next person. In my personal experience I know when I've found the type of person we're looking for when they eventually say ... "thank you".


JW