How many REAL Christians?

[Zzyzx]

.
Christians are said to represent 70% of the US population. However, many Christians who debate here (and speak elsewhere) declare that some fellow Christians are Not REAL Christians. Since there is no consensus in Christendom regarding requirements / criteria for real status, individuals and groups seem inclined to make up whatever suits their position " and apply their opinion in judging fellow Christians.

A self-declared REAL Christian Protestant may declare that Catholics are not real while RCC may say the Protestants are not " thus eliminating each other. Some posters deny real status to Eastern Orthodox, LDS, JW, 7th Day, Amish, Holy Rollers, Snake Handlers, Westboro Baptist, KKK, and/or other sects / denominations / groups " based on their personal opinion.

A cumulative total of sects denied real status seems to eliminate nearly every Christian (except the speaker's chosen sect, of course). How many are left? Would 5% or 10% be a good guess? If so, that would be LESS than the percentage of the US population who declare no religious affiliation (20%) including Atheists (2%) and Agnostics (3%). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irreligio ... ted_States

It should be kept in mind that Christians are not truthful in surveys about church attendance. Forty percent tell surveyors they attend regularly while church attendance statistics indicate that only 20% actually attend.

Can the 20% who actually attend church regularly be considered REAL Christians? If so their numbers about equal the no religious affiliation group. Are some regular attendees NOT Real Christians (but attend church for appearances, under duress, or whatever)? Are some who do not attend church actually Real Christians? How are such matters decided? What individual or group is authorized to judge?

Does the whole issue seem like a schoolyard inclusion / exclusion game?

[marco]

If we believe what Jesus says, there is probably only few, because:

How narrow is the gate, and restricted is the way that leads to life! Few are those who find it.
Matt. 7:14

For many are called, but few chosen.
Matt. 22:14

How very sad. What father, when asked for bread, offers his son a stone? What father causes his children to search for an elusive gate, and selects only those lucky enough to find it? What father speaks of wailing and gnashing of teeth as eternal punishment for his own children?

[Blastcat]

[Replying to post 59 by JehovahsWitness]

I don't see any evidence for a god.. any god.

Then that's fine, you've done what I'm encouraging people to do that's excellent! You're happy (I presume) with your conclusion, I'm happy you're happy if you are.

To me, believing in something has nothing to do with being happy or not, but having accurate information or not. I can be happy as pie about something I believe in that I'm completely WRONG about. I think that's what's happening to most religious people who tell me how HAPPY they are with their cherished beliefs.

I don't know about YOU, but I don't want to be wrong about what to believe in.

My personal belief is that God is looking for those that are not happy with their spiritual situation

And of course, as you say, we should not pretend that you have any accurate information about God. What you DO have, however, is a set of beliefs that you would like to promote. Are they accurate? I'd say no. And you cannot guarantee that they are.

and JEHOVAHS WITNESSES believe it is our mission to point such ones in what we believe to be the right direction;

Yes, I would agree that JW believe in a lot of things.
I question the accuracy of these beliefs.

indeed that outreach work is what we believe is one of the marks of a "real Christianity".

Other Christians would disagree. But, you believe what you believe.
I don't have a problem with that. I don't even have a problem with your preaching. It's just that this part of the forum isn't the place for it.

If we come across those that remain unconvinced by what we have to say, we have absolutely no problem with that, and happily move on to the next person. In my personal experience I know when I've found the type of person we're looking for when they eventually say ... "thank you".

I suppose that makes sense.
You preach to people.. and some people like it.

However, the debate part of the forum isn't the place for preaching.

[JehovahsWitness]

I suppose that makes sense.
You preach to people.. and some people like it.

Exactly. Some will some won't but it is a fact that there is a verse in the bible attributed to Jesus where he instructs his followers to preach and make disciples. It seems reasonable to me therefore to believe that "real Christians" should preach and make disciples.

JW

[Blastcat]

[Replying to post 62 by JehovahsWitness]

I suppose that makes sense.
You preach to people.. and some people like it.

Exactly. Some will some won't but it is a fact that there is a verse in the bible attributed to Jesus where he instructs his followers to preach and make disciples. It seems reasonable to me therefore to believe that "real Christians" should preach and make disciples.

JW

And what seems reasonable to you might not seem reasonable to others. You accept the doctrines of JW, so they seem "reasonable" to you.

But don't forget, that even if I could agree that it's reasonable, it never means that it's true.

I don't care if my beliefs are reasonable. I DO care if they are true and if I can prove that they are. What do you think about truth?

[JehovahsWitness]

And what seems reasonable to you might not seem reasonable to others. You accept the doctrines of JW, so they seem "reasonable" to you.

Yes, exactly.

But don't forget, that even if I could agree that it's reasonable, it never means that it's true.

Kindly refrain from telling me what I should remember or forget, I don't come here to be instructed by you. If I forget how to dress and put my underwear on over my clothes that is nobodies business but mine and my tailor.

The moderators are here to ensure that what I POST is in line with forum guidelines. If you have a comment about something I have said, feel free but please refrain from telling me what my mind should contain/retain. Thanks.

What do you think about truth?

I'm all for it. Truth is a most excellent thing, indeed there is a famous quote "The Truth will set you free!". Poetic and accurate in my humble opinon (and yes I understand that not everybody will share my opinon and I am aware that many will not)



JW

[Blastcat]

[Replying to post 64 by JehovahsWitness]

And what seems reasonable to you might not seem reasonable to others. You accept the doctrines of JW, so they seem "reasonable" to you.

Yes, exactly.

But don't forget, that even if I could agree that it's reasonable, it never means that it's true.

Kindly refrain from telling me what I should remember or forget, I don't come here to be instructed by you. If I forget how to dress and put my underwear on over my clothes that is nobodies business but mine and my tailor.

The moderators are here to ensure that what I POST is in line with forum guidelines. If you have a comment about something I have said, feel free but please refrain from telling me what my mind should contain/retain. Thanks.

Ok, fair enough. Point taken. I take it back, you can forget it or remember it as you so choose.

I never implied to tell you what your brain should contain/retain. It was an unfortunate turn of phrase, I admit it, and apologize.

Perhaps you would like it better if I would had phrased it like this:

"Perhaps, and this is only my personal opinion, it could be seen as a good idea in some way, but not always, and not to everyone, and certainly NOT necessarily to yourself, that it's at least POSSIBLE, for SOME people, somewhere at some time, that one should not forget to retain/contain the idea that just because something makes sense, it doesn't mean that it's true. "

Is that better?

What do you think about truth?

I'm all for it. Truth is a most excellent thing, indeed there is a famous quote "The Truth will set you free!". Poetic and accurate in my humble opinon (and yes I understand that not everybody will share my opinon and I am aware that many will not)

Then why should anyone believe what you admit you don't know with any accuracy?
Does it matter to you if your beliefs are true or not?

[JehovahsWitness]

Then why should anyone believe what you admit you don't know with any accuracy?

They shouldn't unless they want to. Everyone has the right to expres themselves, if in expressing my faith and others join me, that great. If not, no problem (well, not for me). That's my take on things and yes, I am fully aware others may disagree with what I have said.

Does it matter to you if your beliefs are true or not?

Yes it does.

JW

[Blastcat]

[Replying to post 66 by JehovahsWitness]

Then why should anyone believe what you admit you don't know with any accuracy?

They shouldn't unless they want to. Everyone has the right to expres themselves, if in expressing my faith and others join me, that great. If not, no problem (well, not for me). That's my take on things and yes, I am fully aware others may disagree with what I have said.

1. Why would anyone want to believe something that isn't known accurately?
2. Why would anyone want to join you in holding to inaccurate beliefs?

Does it matter to you if your beliefs are true or not?

Yes it does.

3. Are your beliefs true or not?
4. And if so, how do you know that with any accuracy?

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 67 by Blastcat]

I am speaking about my beliefs, if I didn't believe they were true and accurate I wouldn't hold them. An atheist believes there is no god, he doesn't KNOW that to be true. It's all a matter of assessing the available evidence and coming to a logical conclusion. (and yes I am aware that not everyone will come to the same conclusions). If there is a God, he'll settle that issue in His own time.




JW

[Zzyzx]

.

An atheist believes there is no god, he doesn't KNOW that to be true.

Correction: Atheism does NOT require "believes there is no god" but (correctly, "absence of a god belief").

Is it difficult to distinguish between:

1) I do not believe in gods
2) I believe gods do not exist

It's all a matter of assessing the available evidence and coming to a logical conclusion.

I, and many others, have asked repeatedly for Apologists to present evidence to support any claim that gods exist.

All that has been presented consists of unverified ancient tales, testimonials, anecdotes, opinions, conjectures. Perhaps some consider that level of "evidence" sufficient upon which to base important decisions. I do not. "Take my word for it (or his or this book" is not evidence in my way of thinking.

I do not take the word of preachers (including Bible writers) as any more likely to be truthful and accurate than that of any random person.

If there is a God, he'll settle that issue in His own time.

Is there assurance that a "god", if such thing exists, is concerned about human beliefs?

Perhaps if a "god" exists it cares no more for human opinions that we do about opinions expressed within an ant farm.