Christian 'Drop-outs'

[OpenYourEyes]

For Discussion or Debate:
How to prevent Christians from dropping out of the faith?

How to respond to Christians who have already dropped out of the faith?
--------------------------------------------------------------
Just to elaborate on some terms and why I started this thread...
A Christian drop-out stems from the same idea of high school drop-out, in that both groups left something prematurely. The Christian drop-out leaves Christianity usually due to some problem or conflict that they encounter with their belief system and then they give up prematurely. I think most people are accustomed to hearing about and assuming that many atheists leave the faith based on rational reasons but then when I press them I find that many of the key factors that should be considered in the decision are missing. There tends to be a lack of proper understanding of God and the Bible, a lack of familiarity with Christian apologetics, and even on conducting research into their objections. As such, I tend to not spend much time answering their every objection and instead I help lay a foundation for them (in their thinking) where they can find the answers themselves because all the main problem boils down to is a problem dealing with doubt.

One recent example is of a former Christian who drew a negative conclusion about some aspect of Christianity based on an inadequate answer that their professor told them. Apparently, this person considered asking a teacher as being sufficient to deal with their doubt since their response came after my questioning of whatever research they've done on the matter. Ironically, this person dropped out of their class on religion. Notice here no real effort was put in to look for answers either because the person didn't know how and where to look or this person just gave up. This is very common sign/pattern of someone who doesn't know how to deal with doubt.

[jgh7]

I suppose that I dropped out of Chrisitianity because I had spent enough time being open to the faith. I was in college and joined a Christian group, went to bible studies, did weekend activities with Christians, and even went on a Christian retreat. I kept an open willing mind through all of it. This lasted roughly a year.

Eventually I concluded that my faith was not there. Perhaps the main reason is that I don't trust the bible as being God's book. It has not convinced me that it is. Without that basic belief, Christian faith is impossible.

[JoeyKnothead]

From the OP:

How to prevent Christians from dropping out of the faith?

Play along.

How to respond to Christians who have already dropped out of the faith?

Congratulate 'em.

...
A Christian drop-out stems from the same idea of high school drop-out, in that both groups left something prematurely.
...

I reject the notion that folks'd drop out of school "prematurely", as if they rejected education. That former Christians no longer play along with goofy, unfounded beliefs is a problem for the Christian who can't show he speaks truth.

Some of us decided to eat. Some of us decided it's best to have a roof over our heads. Some of us decided to buy electricity, so's we could have us a warm bath.

Sometimes it is, the most mature decision we can make is to forego the future so's we can survive today.

To conflate the rejection of unproven notions with the rejection of education is not warranted, viable, or reasonable. It's the confusion of those who had it so good, they never had to decide between eating and schooling.



The Christian has his book of slanders at the ready for anyone who doesn't play along.

I'd be shamed to find out OP was a human.

[polonius]

Open Your Eyes Posted:

For Discussion or Debate:
How to prevent Christians from dropping out of the faith?

How to respond to Christians who have already dropped out of the faith?
--------------------------------------------------------------
Just to elaborate on some terms and why I started this thread...
A Christian drop-out stems from the same idea of high school drop-out, in that both groups left something prematurely. The Christian drop-out leaves Christianity usually due to some problem or conflict that they encounter with their belief system and then they give up prematurely. I think most people are accustomed to hearing about and assuming that many atheists leave the faith based on rational reasons but then when I press them I find that many of the key factors that should be considered in the decision are missing. There tends to be a lack of proper understanding of God and the Bible, a lack of familiarity with Christian apologetics, and even on conducting research into their objections. As such, I tend to not spend much time answering their every objection and instead I help lay a foundation for them (in their thinking) where they can find the answers themselves because all the main problem boils down to is a problem dealing with doubt.

One recent example is of a former Christian who drew a negative conclusion about some aspect of Christianity based on an inadequate answer that their professor told them. Apparently, this person considered asking a teacher as being sufficient to deal with their doubt since their response came after my questioning of whatever research they've done on the matter. Ironically, this person dropped out of their class on religion. Notice here no real effort was put in to look for answers either because the person didn't know how and where to look or this person just gave up. This is very common sign/pattern of someone who doesn't know how to deal with doubt.

RESPONSE:

Oh I see. People drop out of Christianity or Catholicism because they received "inadequate answer (s)."

What you next have do is explain why the "party line" answers are really adequate after all.

For example, if a Catholic is taught that infallible teachings (and hence unchangeable) is true but on researching finds that some have been changed or simply dropped, doesn't he reasonably conclude that claims of infallibility itself is in error.

[OpenYourEyes]

I suppose that I dropped out of Chrisitianity because I had spent enough time being open to the faith. I was in college and joined a Christian group, went to bible studies, did weekend activities with Christians, and even went on a Christian retreat. I kept an open willing mind through all of it. This lasted roughly a year.

Eventually I concluded that my faith was not there. Perhaps the main reason is that I don't trust the bible as being God's book. It has not convinced me that it is. Without that basic belief, Christian faith is impossible.

My point about Christian drop outs was not meant to include all Christians who leave the faith, but rather it's a term I came up with to label those who left the faith for reasons that could have been avoided or resolved. They left the faith prematurely, in other words. One common scenario that I encounter are atheists who leave Christianity because of some nagging doubt or objection, but then they fail to do any serious searching for answers.

[OpenYourEyes]

I reject the notion that folks'd drop out of school "prematurely", as if they rejected education. That former Christians no longer play along with goofy, unfounded beliefs is a problem for the Christian who can't show he speaks truth.

When certain atheists keep raising objections that inaccurately portrays Christianity then I can only presume that they lack an understanding of Christianity, philosophy, and science. Also, it's likely that this misunderstanding existed before they left Christianity and influenced their decision.

For example, lets take your request of truth confirmation for Christian beliefs which is built on faulty expectations. The Bible contains biographies, history, ordinary and extraordinary experiences, non-literal genres, etc. Just how do you expect all of these aspects to be proven true? Do you expect that for all ancient writings? How can science deal with these matters? Isn't religion/experience necessary for the areas of reality where science is not adequate?

You see a lot of times it's seen as a virtue by skeptics to always request scientific or empirical verification, but in reality it's unreasonable when you consider the factors or questions that I brought up.

[Elijah John]

I reject the notion that folks'd drop out of school "prematurely", as if they rejected education. That former Christians no longer play along with goofy, unfounded beliefs is a problem for the Christian who can't show he speaks truth.

When certain atheists keep raising objections that inaccurately portrays Christianity then I can only presume that they lack an understanding of Christianity, philosophy, and science. Also, it's likely that this misunderstanding existed before they left Christianity and influenced their decision.

For example, lets take your request of truth confirmation for Christian beliefs which is built on faulty expectations. The Bible contains biographies, history, ordinary and extraordinary experiences, non-literal genres, etc. Just how do you expect all of these aspects to be proven true? Do you expect that for all ancient writings? How can science deal with these matters? Isn't religion/experience necessary for the areas of reality where science is not adequate?

You see a lot of times it's seen as a virtue by skeptics to always request scientific or empirical verification, but in reality it's unreasonable when you consider the factors or questions that I brought up.

There are good reasons for questioning and even rejecting conventional Christianity other than "misunderstandings" of the teachings of the Bible, the Church or historical and literary context.

What evidence outside of "the Bible tells me so", for example is there to support the Church claim that "Jesus is God"? Even the Bible is contradictory on that matter alone, not to mention many others.

And hadn't we ought to establish first that the Bible is infallible and inerrant? And the Church?

Is there any evidence at all, for example, from science or cultural or archelological history to prove, in fact that "Jesus is God"?

And when a person starts questioning that notion, and does further investigation, and finds that even the Bible never says those three plain words that "Jesus is God" nor does it even ever have Jesus saying "I am God", can one be fairly blamed for becoming a "drop-out" from orthodoxy, if not from Christianity entirely?

Not to mention when one considers the other manifold errors and contradictions in the Bible, and even Church variance from the Bible?

Whether one can still retain one's theism, (as a Deist, a Christian heretic, a Jew, Muslim or in some other manner) or goes all the way into the arms of atheism is another matter.

[Divine Insight]

When certain atheists keep raising objections that inaccurately portrays Christianity then I can only presume that they lack an understanding of Christianity, philosophy, and science. Also, it's likely that this misunderstanding existed before they left Christianity and influenced their decision.

What constitutes an inaccurate portrayal of Christianity?

Christianity itself is a hodgepodge of disagreeing sects and denominations. Even the Christian Apologists can't agree with each other or convince each other. In short, there doesn't even exists a convincing Christianity. Catholicism and Protestantism reject each other, and the Protestants themselves consist of a myriad of disagreeing apologists/theologians.

The true wonder is why anyone actually believes in this religion at all.

The idea that there even exists a consistent and understandable Christian theology is seriously a joke.

[JoeyKnothead]

From Post 6:

When certain atheists keep raising objections that inaccurately portrays Christianity then I can only presume that they lack an understanding of Christianity, philosophy, and science. Also, it's likely that this misunderstanding existed before they left Christianity and influenced their decision.

There ya go - attack, slander, slur, and libel anyone who rejects your stupid arguments.

For example, lets take your request of truth confirmation for Christian beliefs which is built on faulty expectations.

It is indeed faulty to expect the Christian to ever show he speaks truth.

The Bible contains biographies, history, ordinary and extraordinary experiences, non-literal genres, etc. Just how do you expect all of these aspects to be proven true?

I don't expect 'em to be proven true. I expect the honorable debater to not lie to us.

Do you expect that for all ancient writings? How can science deal with these matters? Isn't religion/experience necessary for the areas of reality where science is not adequate?

I expect the claimant to show he speaks truth - regardless of how upset some claimants get when asked to show they speak truth.

You see a lot of times it's seen as a virtue by skeptics to always request scientific or empirical verification, but in reality it's unreasonable when you consider the factors or questions that I brought up.

"It's unreasponable to expect me to show I speak truth, considering how much of it is I can't".

Excuses for a lack of evidence are the pitiful arguments of the pitiful.

[JoeyKnothead]

From Post 8:

What constitutes an inaccurate portrayal of Christianity?

Science.