Christian 'Drop-outs'

[OpenYourEyes]

For Discussion or Debate:
How to prevent Christians from dropping out of the faith?

How to respond to Christians who have already dropped out of the faith?
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Just to elaborate on some terms and why I started this thread...
A Christian drop-out stems from the same idea of high school drop-out, in that both groups left something prematurely. The Christian drop-out leaves Christianity usually due to some problem or conflict that they encounter with their belief system and then they give up prematurely. I think most people are accustomed to hearing about and assuming that many atheists leave the faith based on rational reasons but then when I press them I find that many of the key factors that should be considered in the decision are missing. There tends to be a lack of proper understanding of God and the Bible, a lack of familiarity with Christian apologetics, and even on conducting research into their objections. As such, I tend to not spend much time answering their every objection and instead I help lay a foundation for them (in their thinking) where they can find the answers themselves because all the main problem boils down to is a problem dealing with doubt.

One recent example is of a former Christian who drew a negative conclusion about some aspect of Christianity based on an inadequate answer that their professor told them. Apparently, this person considered asking a teacher as being sufficient to deal with their doubt since their response came after my questioning of whatever research they've done on the matter. Ironically, this person dropped out of their class on religion. Notice here no real effort was put in to look for answers either because the person didn't know how and where to look or this person just gave up. This is very common sign/pattern of someone who doesn't know how to deal with doubt.

[Blastcat]

[Replying to post 129 by JLB32168]

"Suing people" isn't reasoned debate.

If caring isn’t up for debate then a reprimand for introducing the subject of caring should also be addressed to the one who introduced it in the first place and not just the second. Equal time for all is my motto.

I don't know what you mean. How is saying "SUE ME" part of a reasoned debate?

Pointing out the obvious such as EVERYONE on the planet "might be wrong" doesn't advance a reasoned debate.

See above.

I don't see how your post advanced the discussion of the actual topic.

[KenRU]

Ok, please elaborate what you mean when you say "sincere hearted people." I am most curious.

-All the best

People whom God judges as having motives in line with His will and purpose.


JW

Well now I am even more confused. How do we know who god considers "sincere hearted" or not? Is it just a blanket/black or white issue? Such as, if they don't follow your faith (or a specific one) then they are not sincere hearted? Or is it if they don't follow Christianity at all? What if you are Muslim or Jewish or any of the other myriad religions out there? Do you have a means of reassuring those poor folk that are just misguided and led to follow a different faith/path but are still sincere of heart?

This logic seems to confuse the issue even further. Perhaps you could clear that up for me?

[JehovahsWitness]

Well now I am even more confused. How do we know who god considers "sincere hearted" or not?

In the Christian tradition it is not generally believed to be necessary to know. The Christian calling as outlined in scripture is to spread the message to those that will listen and let that message do its work.

Those God judges as sincere are known only to him.

Hope that helps,


JW

[Blastcat]

[Replying to post 132 by JehovahsWitness]

Well now I am even more confused. How do we know who god considers "sincere hearted" or not?

In the Christian tradition it is not generally believed to be necessary to know. The Christian calling as outlined in scripture is to spread the message to those that will listen and let that message do its work.

Those God judges as sincere are known only to him.

Hope that helps,


JW

Well, it only "helps" in the sense that it shows us you don't have a CLUE what God thinks is sincere or not. It's all... mysterious and completely unknown to you?

Are we to cross our fingers and hope to die?

[JLB32168]

[Replying to post 129 by JLB32168]

"Suing people" isn't reasoned debate.

If caring isn’t up for debate then a reprimand for introducing the subject of caring should also be addressed to the one who introduced it in the first place and not just the second. Equal time for all is my motto.

I don't know what you mean. How is saying "SUE ME" part of a reasoned debate?

Pointing out the obvious such as EVERYONE on the planet "might be wrong" doesn't advance a reasoned debate.

See above.

I don't see how your post advanced the discussion of the actual topic.

Would that be the topic "Christian 'Drop-outs'?" I’m sure your post # 130 (Aug 04, 2016 @ 12:42 pm) advanced that topic. Could you clarify what point on Christian drop outs you were making? I’m having trouble seeing it. If it's not there then follow your own advice.

*How to prevent Christians from dropping out of the faith? Answer their questions if they ask (since you can’t read their mind.)

*How to respond to Christians who have already dropped out of the faith? Perhaps ask them why they did. If they don’t become belligerent ask why they did and perhaps explain why you have not. If they become belligerent then cease and desist all talk of religion. You've done all you're supposed to do.

[KenRU]

Well now I am even more confused. How do we know who god considers "sincere hearted" or not?

In the Christian tradition it is not generally believed to be necessary to know.

That really does not address my question. I understand you have to have faith, and be a willing recipient. But how do we know if we are having faith and a willing recipient for the right faith/religion/denomination?

You said: “I don't think the point of Christianity is to keep everyone, but to keep all sincere hearted people that want to serve God acceptably.�

Are you saying that once you hear the words of the gospel and accept it as truth, poof, you are “sincere hearted�? Everyone else, well, they simply aren’t? Or is there more to it?

The Christian calling as outlined in scripture is to spread the message to those that will listen and let that message do its work.

Ah, and if the message doesn’t do its work, they must not be sincere hearted, is that it?

Those God judges as sincere are known only to him.

But you said he wants sincere hearted people, correct? Is it simply black and white then? Those that have the gospels introduced to them and stay or become Christian they are sincere hearted? And those that leave must not be? Is it that black or white, in your estimation?

Hope that helps,JW

We’re getting there. Thanks for taking the time to respond.

-all the best

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 135 by KenRU]

The point is, Christians are not asked to judge people, they are asked to preach to people. The Christian tradition suggests that God judges and instructs Christians not to attempt to do; namely to judge a person's heart.

*judge in the sense of assess an individual final merit for life.

But how do we know if we are having faith and a willing recipient for the right faith/religion/denomination?

That seems to be a different question. Originally it seemed you asked how we know what GOD judges a person's heart to be (to which I answered, for Christians we don't know, and for most Christians is it not necessary to know). Here you seem (correct me if I'm wrong) to be asking upon what basis should an individual, you or I, judge a religion to be "right".

I believe the bible to be a guide to what is acceptable worship and I think most Christians would agree with me. I'm not saying its true because a lot of Christians believe, I am just answering what arguably the consensus of official beliefs are. In other words

# What do Christians believe to be the basis for judging acceptable worship?

Answer: The majority of Christians believe the bible provides the basis for judging the acceptability of worship. Interpretations vary.

JW

JW

[KenRU]

[Replying to post 136 by JehovahsWitness]

I was, indeed, asking two questions (well one was more of a follow up), and you answered them. Thank you for taking the time.

But to put your perspective into practice, clearly Christianity has many denominations. How does that factor into spreading the word? Do you assume a Catholic already is sincere of heart, or not?


-all the best

[Blastcat]

[Replying to post 134 by JLB32168]

Would that be the topic "Christian 'Drop-outs'?"

Yes. That topic.

Saying something so OBVIOUS that has NOTHING to do with the actual topic doesn't do a thing for the discussion. And you should refrain from personal comments as they distract from the topic YET AGAIN and are out of line.

[Zzyzx]

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If person 1 leaves an organization (any organization) and person 2 attempts to convince or coerce them to return, isn't person 2 assuming that they know better what is best for person 1 than s/he does?