Important characteristics of Christianity

[OnceConvinced]

if you probed deeper you'd find out that the differences are not that great when it comes to the important characteristics of Christianity. For instance, the overwhelming majority of Christian denominations believe in the divinity of Christ, the resurrection, the nature of God, the authority of Scripture, they share the same Bible canon, etc. Dividing over what day to worship, as Seventh-day Adventists are distinguished for has little impact on understanding the core messages of Christianity.

Which important characteristics/core messages do the majority of Christians agree upon?

Which are crucial when it comes to determining whether someone is a true Christian and saved?

Are these things listed by OpenYourEyes crucial for salvation?

Belief in:
- the divinity of Christ
- the resurrection

Do the majority of Christians agree on...
- the nature of god?
- the authority of scripture?
- which versions of the bible to use?

[Blastcat]

[Replying to post 60 by onewithhim]

I would say that antisemitism has its roots in FALSE Christianity. It is nowhere to be found in the Scriptures. Jesus himself loved his countrymen dearly.

Why do you want us to fall for the "No True Scotsman" fallacy?
Is it that you fall for it yourself?

Are you saying that whenever a Christian does something that doesn't suit your fancy, it's because they aren't TRUE Christians?

And whenever any Christian does something that you DO like... he is instantly a TRUE Christian?

You MIGHT not know what it means to make that fallacy.
But others DO.

I suggest you keep up with those who do.

http://www.skillsyouneed.com/learn/crit ... nking.html

He also has told us that there are people who CLAIM to be Christians (they call him "Lord" and do miraculous works in his name) and yet he will say to them, "Get away from me...I never knew you!" (See, please, Matthew 7: 13-23.)

Do YOU claim to be a Christian?

Hitler did indeed exploit the hatred that was manifest even in the churches. The popes did nothing to protect the Jews & even encouraged the Inquisitions and the Holocaust. Pope Pius XII is on record as having a distaste for Jews. The Vatican and Hitler had an agreement (a signed Concordat) that they would, in effect, be buddies. The Jews suffered horrible consequences of the Church-State agreements, from the very early centuries on up to today.

That's why Church-State "agreements" are so awful. States all by themselves are bad ENOUGH. But add religion to the mix.... and we could get something like them good old days again, or the Islamic State.

To say that anti-antisemitism isn't rooted in religion MIGHT be a bit of an exaggeration, but religion sure PROMOTED that idea.

And now, religion promotes hatred for gays science, women, children and science among others.

We need LESS of religious influence, NOT MORE.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 60 by onewithhim]

I would say that antisemitism has its roots in FALSE Christianity. It is nowhere to be found in the Scriptures. Jesus himself loved his countrymen dearly.

Why do you want us to fall for the "No True Scotsman" fallacy?
Is it that you fall for it yourself?

Are you saying that whenever a Christian does something that doesn't suit your fancy, it's because they aren't TRUE Christians?

And whenever any Christian does something that you DO like... he is instantly a TRUE Christian?

You MIGHT not know what it means to make that fallacy.
But others DO.

I suggest you keep up with those who do.

http://www.skillsyouneed.com/learn/crit ... nking.html

He also has told us that there are people who CLAIM to be Christians (they call him "Lord" and do miraculous works in his name) and yet he will say to them, "Get away from me...I never knew you!" (See, please, Matthew 7: 13-23.)

Do YOU claim to be a Christian?

Hitler did indeed exploit the hatred that was manifest even in the churches. The popes did nothing to protect the Jews & even encouraged the Inquisitions and the Holocaust. Pope Pius XII is on record as having a distaste for Jews. The Vatican and Hitler had an agreement (a signed Concordat) that they would, in effect, be buddies. The Jews suffered horrible consequences of the Church-State agreements, from the very early centuries on up to today.

That's why Church-State "agreements" are so awful. States all by themselves are bad ENOUGH. But add religion to the mix.... and we could get something like them good old days again, or the Islamic State.

To say that anti-antisemitism isn't rooted in religion MIGHT be a bit of an exaggeration, but religion sure PROMOTED that idea.

And now, religion promotes hatred for gays science, women, children and science among others.

We need LESS of religious influence, NOT MORE.

You grit your teeth against me in part of your post and then agree with me at the end. It's hard to understand what you really think. I agree that anti-semitism is rooted in "religion," but not religion that is acceptable to the God of the Bible. Yes, all self-proclaimed Christian religions say that they follow the Bible, but where is the proof? Didn't Jesus say, "Ye shall know them by their fruits"? (Matt.7:16) That means we can tell a true Christian by what he does. If he/she is doing something that goes against Christ's teachings, isn't that a heads-up that this person is not a disciple of Christ?

Let's take it off the individual level.....no one can judge individuals except God. The buck stops at the religious institutions that are teaching individuals. If we can see that a particular church or denomination is not practicing what Jesus taught, then we can be confident in Jesus' words on the matter (which I quoted in my post that you reject). Please read again Matthew 7:13-23 with church denominations in mind, rather than individuals.

[Blastcat]

[Replying to post 62 by onewithhim]

!

The NO TRUE SCOTSMAN FALLACY : case study.

You grit your teeth against me in part of your post and then agree with me at the end.

I don't grit, I write.
People might imagine ALL SORTS of things.. and a lot DO imagine that I grit my teeth or something... But I'm just trying to help. It gets frustrating when people don't seem to believe me.. but I can't help that.

It's hard to understand what you really think.

If you have ANY questions in the future, don't hesitate to ask. I write to BE understood, you see. It's no good whining about it. HELP me help you understand.. what is it that is hard to understand?...

It happens that time to time, I agree with people. I find fault in religiously motivated thinking, AND organized religions. So, I might agree with parts of what you write, and not OTHER parts. But if you don't understand something, ASK.

I agree that anti-semitism is rooted in "religion," but not religion that is acceptable to the God of the Bible.

I'm afraid that you are just voicing your opinion. But all the antisemites who, like Hitler, base their hatred on what they think the Bible says... would disagree with you there. You are trying to use that No true Scotsman fallacy again.

You are saying that in effect, NO TRUE CHRISTIAN could ever do anything wrong or come to another conclusion as a "TRUE" Christian. And of course, you happen to BE one of those true Christians, don't you?

So, any Christian who doesn't agree with you just isn't a TRUE Christian at all.. so you can safely IGNORE them... Well.. others don't ignore them even if you do.

Putting your head in the sand by way of a false feeling of moral superiority isn't going to help your CASE in any way.

Yes, all self-proclaimed Christian religions say that they follow the Bible, but where is the proof?

Proof of what?.. their beliefs?
If you have some self-proclaimed Christian religious belief, what is your proof of THAT?

Didn't Jesus say, "Ye shall know them by their fruits"? (Matt.7:16)

Jesus may or may not have said it.. but I take that to be a platitude that represents circular thinking. If Jesus DID say it... he certainly was NOT a good philosopher at all, that's for sure.

Well, one man's fruit is pretty much another's vegetable.. take the tomato, for example... Is that a fruit or a veggie? "Fruits" are evaluated subjectively, so... that argument is of no use to you at all.

Another lame argument that tries to prove an objective truth by way of subjective truth... sorry.. not the same category of truth, I'm afraid.

That means we can tell a true Christian by what he does.

NOT AT ALL.

That means that we can have our subjective opinion about it. We can all have those. In MY view, evil Christians are just following what the Bible says... because in MY view ( my subjective view ) the Bible says some pretty terrible things. Just WHO is it that will decide who is and who isn't a TRUE CHRISTIAN is supposed to be... YOU?

Are YOU that self-appointed judge?

Give me a break.... you aren't that judge. You can judge things in a subjective way FOR YOURSELF... and that's it. You cant be the judge for anyone else. You are looking in the mirror and admiring yourself.

OK GREAT.. I'm happy that you admire yourself.
Be as happy as you can be.. our life is short.

But if you want to PROVE any of your god beliefs are true... you will have to do WAY better than the No True Scotsman fallacy, my friend. WAY WAY better. Now you have to go BACK to the classroom and LEARN about the No True Scotsman fallacy, because you SEEM to not know what it is at all.

And it just RUINED your reasoning.

You can start your investigation here if you like:

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/no-true-scotsman

But please DO start your investigation.

If he/she is doing something that goes against Christ's teachings, isn't that a heads-up that this person is not a disciple of Christ?

NO.

People disagree as to what Jesus' teaching WAS... and for all I know.. your take on it might be VERY flawed. Someone who uses the No True Scotsman fallacy doesn't really know how to THINK WELL, so it would NOT surprise me to find out that your conclusions are also mostly all wrong.

You will be judging what Jesus meant using BAD THINKING methods.
So.. I'm not too optimistic at the moment.

Let's take it off the individual level.....no one can judge individuals except God.

BIG HONKING CLAIM that happens to be wrong.
Humans judge individuals ALL THE TIME, not just God. IF God exists at all and can do ANYTHING, including judge. You don't seem to understand the difference between A BELIEF AND A FACT. They aren't the same, you know.

Sorry, but I think that your reasoning is just abysmal.

The buck stops at the religious institutions that are teaching individuals. If we can see that a particular church or denomination is not practicing what Jesus taught, then we can be confident in Jesus' words on the matter (which I quoted in my post that you reject).

Please read again Matthew 7:13-23 with church denominations in mind, rather than individuals.

Thanks SO much for the reference.

I noticed that it warns us from FALSE PROPHETS...... and you sound like one of those to me. False prophet, falsely proclaiming falsehoods by using false reasoning and false facts.

JUST PLAIN FALSE.

Now, it's going to be REAL easy to see if you want to debate seriously or if you even CARE about the truth... I hope to see something coming back that has SOMETHING to do with my accusation about the No True Scotsman fallacy.

IF you don't even BOTHER with it... it will OBVIOUSLY mean that you don't mind at all thinking poorly. And that my friend, will spell DISASTER for your case.. WHATEVER YOUR CASE MAY BE. So, go learn about it, defend yourself against the accusation, correct it and move on.. then you will have IMPRESSED me very much.

And if I DO happen to be wrong... prove it. I have been wrong in the past, I fully intend to be wrong in the future... and I might be wrong NOW. So... that's the challenge.

Honestly engage in this debate or not... up to you.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 62 by onewithhim]

!

The NO TRUE SCOTSMAN FALLACY : case study.

You grit your teeth against me in part of your post and then agree with me at the end.

I don't grit, I write.
People might imagine ALL SORTS of things.. and a lot DO imagine that I grit my teeth or something... But I'm just trying to help. It gets frustrating when people don't seem to believe me.. but I can't help that.

It's hard to understand what you really think.

If you have ANY questions in the future, don't hesitate to ask. I write to BE understood, you see. It's no good whining about it. HELP me help you understand.. what is it that is hard to understand?...

It happens that time to time, I agree with people. I find fault in religiously motivated thinking, AND organized religions. So, I might agree with parts of what you write, and not OTHER parts. But if you don't understand something, ASK.

I agree that anti-semitism is rooted in "religion," but not religion that is acceptable to the God of the Bible.

I'm afraid that you are just voicing your opinion. But all the antisemites who, like Hitler, base their hatred on what they think the Bible says... would disagree with you there. You are trying to use that No true Scotsman fallacy again.

You are saying that in effect, NO TRUE CHRISTIAN could ever do anything wrong or come to another conclusion as a "TRUE" Christian. And of course, you happen to BE one of those true Christians, don't you?

So, any Christian who doesn't agree with you just isn't a TRUE Christian at all.. so you can safely IGNORE them... Well.. others don't ignore them even if you do.

Putting your head in the sand by way of a false feeling of moral superiority isn't going to help your CASE in any way.

Yes, all self-proclaimed Christian religions say that they follow the Bible, but where is the proof?

Proof of what?.. their beliefs?
If you have some self-proclaimed Christian religious belief, what is your proof of THAT?

Didn't Jesus say, "Ye shall know them by their fruits"? (Matt.7:16)

Jesus may or may not have said it.. but I take that to be a platitude that represents circular thinking. If Jesus DID say it... he certainly was NOT a good philosopher at all, that's for sure.

Well, one man's fruit is pretty much another's vegetable.. take the tomato, for example... Is that a fruit or a veggie? "Fruits" are evaluated subjectively, so... that argument is of no use to you at all.

Another lame argument that tries to prove an objective truth by way of subjective truth... sorry.. not the same category of truth, I'm afraid.

That means we can tell a true Christian by what he does.

NOT AT ALL.

That means that we can have our subjective opinion about it. We can all have those. In MY view, evil Christians are just following what the Bible says... because in MY view ( my subjective view ) the Bible says some pretty terrible things. Just WHO is it that will decide who is and who isn't a TRUE CHRISTIAN is supposed to be... YOU?

Are YOU that self-appointed judge?

Give me a break.... you aren't that judge. You can judge things in a subjective way FOR YOURSELF... and that's it. You cant be the judge for anyone else. You are looking in the mirror and admiring yourself.

OK GREAT.. I'm happy that you admire yourself.
Be as happy as you can be.. our life is short.

But if you want to PROVE any of your god beliefs are true... you will have to do WAY better than the No True Scotsman fallacy, my friend. WAY WAY better. Now you have to go BACK to the classroom and LEARN about the No True Scotsman fallacy, because you SEEM to not know what it is at all.

And it just RUINED your reasoning.

You can start your investigation here if you like:

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/no-true-scotsman

But please DO start your investigation.

If he/she is doing something that goes against Christ's teachings, isn't that a heads-up that this person is not a disciple of Christ?

NO.

People disagree as to what Jesus' teaching WAS... and for all I know.. your take on it might be VERY flawed. Someone who uses the No True Scotsman fallacy doesn't really know how to THINK WELL, so it would NOT surprise me to find out that your conclusions are also mostly all wrong.

You will be judging what Jesus meant using BAD THINKING methods.
So.. I'm not too optimistic at the moment.

Let's take it off the individual level.....no one can judge individuals except God.

BIG HONKING CLAIM that happens to be wrong.
Humans judge individuals ALL THE TIME, not just God. IF God exists at all and can do ANYTHING, including judge. You don't seem to understand the difference between A BELIEF AND A FACT. They aren't the same, you know.

Sorry, but I think that your reasoning is just abysmal.

The buck stops at the religious institutions that are teaching individuals. If we can see that a particular church or denomination is not practicing what Jesus taught, then we can be confident in Jesus' words on the matter (which I quoted in my post that you reject).

Please read again Matthew 7:13-23 with church denominations in mind, rather than individuals.

Thanks SO much for the reference.

I noticed that it warns us from FALSE PROPHETS...... and you sound like one of those to me. False prophet, falsely proclaiming falsehoods by using false reasoning and false facts.

JUST PLAIN FALSE.

Now, it's going to be REAL easy to see if you want to debate seriously or if you even CARE about the truth... I hope to see something coming back that has SOMETHING to do with my accusation about the No True Scotsman fallacy.

IF you don't even BOTHER with it... it will OBVIOUSLY mean that you don't mind at all thinking poorly. And that my friend, will spell DISASTER for your case.. WHATEVER YOUR CASE MAY BE. So, go learn about it, defend yourself against the accusation, correct it and move on.. then you will have IMPRESSED me very much.

And if I DO happen to be wrong... prove it. I have been wrong in the past, I fully intend to be wrong in the future... and I might be wrong NOW. So... that's the challenge.

Honestly engage in this debate or not... up to you.

I said "gritting your teeth" as "poetic license," and not a literal thing. I perceive that you aren't much of a reader. There are many writers who use flowery language to make a point.

I don't understand how you DISAGREE with me in your post and then in the same post AGREE with what I was saying. You disagreed that anyone has a right to judge the actions of other people, and then you said that religion being in cahoots with the state is a bad thing (or words to that effect).

So which is it? Religion is OK no matter what they do and we can't personally distinguish between good and bad....or....Religion can do some pretty bad things? You are not clear in your viewpoint.

Really, could a TRUE CHRISTIAN ORGANIZATION order the terrors of what was the CRUSADES, or the INQUISITION, or placate the demonic Nazis during THE HOLOCAUST?

Are we to close our eyes to all that? I don't think so. I'm not "feeling morally superior" to anyone, actually. I feel disgust at seeing terrible things happen. And I try to live by Jesus' teachings.....I think there are religions that clearly do not. I try to help people who want to do what is right and are searching for the true God (who Jesus said was his Father, YHWH [John 17:3]).

So you think my thinking is abysmal. OK. That's your prerogative. Enjoy your day.


See ya.

[Blastcat]

[Replying to post 64 by onewithhim]



!

Proof positive that onewithhim doesn't care about the truth OR honest debate

I said "gritting your teeth" as "poetic license," and not a literal thing. I perceive that you aren't much of a reader. There are many writers who use flowery language to make a point.

You perceive WRONG.

I know what you meant. I took it figuratively.
You meant it figuratively.

I'm not much of a reader ?
Give me a break.
Ad hominem makes you WRONG.

I don't understand how you DISAGREE with me in your post and then in the same post AGREE with what I was saying. You disagreed that anyone has a right to judge the actions of other people, and then you said that religion being in cahoots with the state is a bad thing (or words to that effect).

So which is it? Religion is OK no matter what they do and we can't personally distinguish between good and bad....or....Religion can do some pretty bad things? You are not clear in your viewpoint.

MAYBE you aren't "too good of a reader".

It's NEITHER... you got both possibilities WRONG. You are wrong AGAIN. What are you in... a wrongness contest? The person most wrong wins the prize?

I suggest that you stop guessing. You don't seem too good at it.

I never even HINTED that religions are never wrong.. where did you get THAT FROM? I suggest you stop inventing what people write that they DIDN'T actually write right after they just wrote it. It's not as if I wouldn't NOTICE THAT.

I DID say that religions can do some pretty terrible things.
So, you got that part right.

Are you a bit less confused now?
Just ask me if you don't understand something. Try not to preface it with PRETEND..that's a bit useless.

Really, could a TRUE CHRISTIAN ORGANIZATION order the terrors of what was the CRUSADES, or the INQUISITION, or placate the demonic Nazis during THE HOLOCAUST?

YEP. They could and they did.
Can you deal with it?

( let me guess... you seem to be having a fair bit of trouble dealing with it )

Are we to close our eyes to all that? I don't think so.

I don't want to close my eyes to ANYTHING that is real. So, yeah, real religions did some really terrible things. Not just Christians, but they did some pretty terrible things, too. You just want to CALL those terrible Christians FALSE Christians ... but that's because you don't even care about the No True Scotsman fallacy.

I warned you about that.
If you don't care about the truth, I wont be too interested in what you have to say.

I'm not "feeling morally superior" to anyone, actually. I feel disgust at seeing terrible things happen. And I try to live by Jesus' teachings.....

That pretty much proves that you didn't bother about the NTS fallacy.


But if you really TRULY live by Jesus' teachings, then be a "true" Christian and live by this:

Matthew 10:34
"Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword."

And then wage WAR.. with a sword. Be warned though... you might die quickly. Others will be using modern munition.

I can't take what you say seriously, because you don't care that you are using the NO TRUE SCOTSMAN fallacy. I warned you about that.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 65 by Blastcat]

These are my final words to you blastcat. What Jesus said about him coming to bring a sword is NOT what you are propounding. It was not Jesus' aim to bring a sword. He was telling us that there would be violent disagreement with those who followed him. A sword---violence and death---would rise up, but certainly not with his approval! He told his disciples that they would be as lambs among wolves, and would be killed because they were following him.

"Go; behold, I send you out as lambs in the midst of wolves." (Luke 10:3, NASB)


"They will deliver you to tribulation, and will kill you, and you will be hated by all nations because of my name." (Matthew 24:9, NASB)



Notice: Jesus' followers were not the ones that were violent; they were to be "as lambs." He also says that THEY will kill you---someone other than Jesus' disciples will do the killing.

[Blastcat]

[Replying to post 66 by onewithhim]

Place your bets, ladies and gents !!

These are my final words to you blastcat.

Famous last words, then, is it?

What Jesus said about him coming to bring a sword is NOT what you are propounding.

No, it was Jesus that propounded that one, I'm afraid.

Matthew 10:34
"Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword."

He's not for peace, he is for whatever a sword does, instead. I think that usually involves sword play of some sort.

What do you think?..

What's the opposite of peace do you think?

But do go on.. you seem to be on a roll.

It was not Jesus' aim to bring a sword.

That's funny because he says that "I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. "
In fact, that's exactly what he says.. he brings a sword.

Now.. how is that peaceful again?
Oh right.. Jesus didn't come to bring peace.

What's the opposite of peace?

He was telling us that there would be violent disagreement with those who followed him. A sword---violence and death---would rise up, but certainly not with his approval!

Being an all powerful god of course, he couldn't stop the violence, either. right?
But he didn't COME to bring peace, did he?

He CAME for some OTHER reason than peace, didn't he?

He told his disciples that they would be as lambs among wolves, and would be killed because they were following him.

But NOT by the sword, apparently. They really should have got swords, don't you think? Coulda helped...

Or just run away fast.. that's what I woulda done.
Run, Blastcat, run.

"Go; behold, I send you out as lambs in the midst of wolves." (Luke 10:3, NASB)

Nice guy, that Jesus.. always looking out for his lambs. Send them out to SLAUGHTER he did. Behold !

But it makes sense, he didn't COME to bring any peace...

"They will deliver you to tribulation, and will kill you, and you will be hated by all nations because of my name." (Matthew 24:9, NASB)

NICE!!!!
It's nice to know what Jesus REALLY stood for.

Tribulation, killing and hatred for his most trusted followers..

Sounds pretty much like the very opposite of peace to me....
That's what I was saying.. thanks for clearing that up.

Notice: Jesus' followers were not the ones that were violent; they were to be "as lambs." He also says that THEY will kill you---someone other than Jesus' disciples will do the killing.

Yeah, poor Jesus followers.
Tough.

I feel another one of those "ignores" coming on... Who is willing to bet?

Any takers?

I'm giving points.. if you bet correctly you get say... 100 points, and if you guess wrong, you pay up .. maybe 10. Hows that for odds?