Why is faith a virtue ?

[McCulloch]

Why is faith a virtue?

Then He said to Thomas, "Reach here with your finger, and see My hands; and reach here your hand and put it into My side; and do not be unbelieving, but believing."
Thomas answered and said to Him, "My Lord and my God!"
Jesus said to him, "Because you have seen Me, have you believed? Blessed are they who did not see, and yet believed."

Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen.

According to the Christians, God created humans. According to science, humans have really big brains, relative to the expected brain size based on other species and body size. With these really big brains, we can assess information, evaluate options, pose difficult questions and collaborate on answers thereby combining the power of our brains.

But according to some Christians, on this site and elsewhere, God does not want humans to use our brains with regard to him. He wants humans to choose to believe in him without sufficient evidence to rationally conclude that he exists. In science, this kind of faith, acceptance of assertions as fact without supporting evidence, is not considered a virtue. Yet, in the area of religion it is good to have faith (so long as your faith is the correct faith).

Why ?

[Lainey]

Hey, I asked that a week or so ago, here. I didn't get a convincing answer as to why it should be a virtue.

[McCulloch]

Hey, I asked that a week or so ago, here. I didn't get a convincing answer as to why it should be a virtue.

Sorry for hijacking your question. I guess we can refer them to here or there the next time that some Christian says that God won't show himself to us because he wants us to believe by faith not evidence.

[Cmass]

And.....I have my own post "Do Christians apply logic consistently? Using the same thinking cap for ALL topics" which will gets to the same place eventually.
A good film will cause what is called "suspension of belief". This allows you to enjoy your movie without thinking "Hey, there is no way they could actually travel faster than light". Faith happens as a mechanism to keep suspended belief intact when there is no other reason for it. The movie is over. wake up and go home.
"What? Huh? What are you saying? They DID travel faster than light, I KNOW they did! I have faith they traveled faster than light and that is all I need to know!! Now stop shaking me and stop telling me to wake up!!

[Lainey]

Sorry for hijacking your question. I guess we can refer them to here or there the next time that some Christian says that God won't show himself to us because he wants us to believe by faith not evidence.

They won't bite. They don't know. It just is. I guess you just have to have faith that faith is a virtue.

A good film will cause what is called "suspension of belief". This allows you to enjoy your movie without thinking "Hey, there is no way they could actually travel faster than light". Faith happens as a mechanism to keep suspended belief intact when there is no other reason for it. The movie is over. wake up and go home.

Yeah, how come if I have faith that dowsing works (I don't, but let's not quibble about it now), that's not a virtuous manifestation of faith? Why is it then evil? Or if I have faith in another religion? Or if I have faith in psychics? Why isn't it virtuous then?

[Cmass]

Cmass wrote:
A good film will cause what is called "suspension of belief". This allows you to enjoy your movie without thinking "Hey, there is no way they could actually travel faster than light". Faith happens as a mechanism to keep suspended belief intact when there is no other reason for it. The movie is over. wake up and go home.

Yeah, how come if I have faith that dowsing works (I don't, but let's not quibble about it now), that's not a virtuous manifestation of faith? Why is it then evil? Or if I have faith in another religion? Or if I have faith in psychics? Why isn't it virtuous then?

First, dowsing DOES work. I have done it myself: Every time I try it during the winter here in Seattle, my divining rod finds water. It's truly miraculous.
I don't think the OP was asking about alternate manifestations of faith being virtuous but rather WHY faith is seen as a virtue in the first place.

In science, this kind of faith, acceptance of assertions as fact without supporting evidence, is not considered a virtue. Yet, in the area of religion it is good to have faith (so long as your faith is the correct faith).

I point back to my previous ingenious statement (I made it up myself, so it must be ingenious, no?): Faith happens as a mechanism to keep suspended belief intact when there is no other reason for it.

[Goat]

Cmass wrote:
A good film will cause what is called "suspension of belief". This allows you to enjoy your movie without thinking "Hey, there is no way they could actually travel faster than light". Faith happens as a mechanism to keep suspended belief intact when there is no other reason for it. The movie is over. wake up and go home.

Yeah, how come if I have faith that dowsing works (I don't, but let's not quibble about it now), that's not a virtuous manifestation of faith? Why is it then evil? Or if I have faith in another religion? Or if I have faith in psychics? Why isn't it virtuous then?

First, dowsing DOES work. I have done it myself: Every time I try it during the winter here in Seattle, my divining rod finds water. It's truly miraculous.
I don't think the OP was asking about alternate manifestations of faith being virtuous but rather WHY faith is seen as a virtue in the first place.

In science, this kind of faith, acceptance of assertions as fact without supporting evidence, is not considered a virtue. Yet, in the area of religion it is good to have faith (so long as your faith is the correct faith).

I point back to my previous ingenious statement (I made it up myself, so it must be ingenious, no?): Faith happens as a mechanism to keep suspended belief intact when there is no other reason for it.

Doesn't it rain all winter long in seattle?

[Confused]

Why is faith a virtue?

Then He said to Thomas, "Reach here with your finger, and see My hands; and reach here your hand and put it into My side; and do not be unbelieving, but believing."
Thomas answered and said to Him, "My Lord and my God!"
Jesus said to him, "Because you have seen Me, have you believed? Blessed are they who did not see, and yet believed."

Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen.

According to the Christians, God created humans. According to science, humans have really big brains, relative to the expected brain size based on other species and body size. With these really big brains, we can assess information, evaluate options, pose difficult questions and collaborate on answers thereby combining the power of our brains.

But according to some Christians, on this site and elsewhere, God does not want humans to use our brains with regard to him. He wants humans to choose to believe in him without sufficient evidence to rationally conclude that he exists. In science, this kind of faith, acceptance of assertions as fact without supporting evidence, is not considered a virtue. Yet, in the area of religion it is good to have faith (so long as your faith is the correct faith).

Why ?

And so begins the confusion. The way I look at it, we have the OT: here God showed such a presence that he was involved in day to day life, yet man still turned evil, so God withdrew. Man continued to become even more evil and what little faith was left was gone. The government/monarchy etc had made life so miserable that it wasn't worth living. People harvested food-most of which went to the nobility, people crafted goods-most of which went to the nobility-people made money from their skills-most of which was taken in taxes. People had little enough to feed themselves, let alone their families. They barely had faith left in their family let alone anything else. Then along comes Christ spreading all this good new about God. Guess God decided man needed his presence to get them to continue to follow him. Christ speaks of all the earthly sufferings but the rewards that await them in heaven as eternal life. You just must have faith in God and not question his reasons for things. That beleif of faith allowed some people to continue with the sufferings of day to day life. That same faith continues today. It allows people to accept what they can't explain and live with their day to day suffering because they know something great is awaiting them in the after life. I realize the government themselves are the ones who crucified christ, but it seems to me, christ did them a favor with this faith thing. He never preached to stand up for rights of humanity or equality. Just accept your meager existence until your time is up and your faith will take to to evelasting harmony. There is no logic in faith. This is why most christians will not debate their stance. They cannot explain faith. It is a concept that defies logic. Had God wanted Christ to spread his message about faith, I have to say, he did a poor job of it.

[youngborean]

I guess I will bite. Faith is a virtue because it is an attribute of God. It is simply a sign in people that God has opened a relationship with that person. That special relationship is virtuous because it causes that particular person to behave in a new way. In my study of the NT, I would argue that Faith is never something someone conjures up with their own will (in relation to intellectual pursuits), but rather it is something elemental that is imparted to humans by God. So I think the contrast to Intellect in that faith is invented may be true, but it is not represented clearly that way in scripture. The best scriptural reference I can offer to someone is to looking into the scriptural representation of faith should start in Ephesians.

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

The experience of the power of God is the only way to receive faith.

Rom 10:17 So then faith [cometh] by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

If you don't have the experience, clearly you will have no faith. The faith received in confession of the power of God reminds us of a great salvation through the righteous works of Jesus, that is clearly why it is virtuous.

[Confused]

I guess I will bite. Faith is a virtue because it is an attribute of God. It is simply a sign in people that God has opened a relationship with that person. That special relationship is virtuous because it causes that particular person to behave in a new way. In my study of the NT, I would argue that Faith is never something someone conjures up with their own will (in relation to intellectual pursuits), but rather it is something elemental that is imparted to humans by God. So I think the contrast to Intellect in that faith is invented may be true, but it is not represented clearly that way in scripture. The best scriptural reference I can offer to someone is to looking into the scriptural representation of faith should start in Ephesians.

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

The experience of the power of God is the only way to receive faith.

Rom 10:17 So then faith [cometh] by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

If you don't have the experience, clearly you will have no faith. The faith received in confession of the power of God reminds us of a great salvation through the righteous works of Jesus, that is clearly why it is virtuous.

Well Cmass and McCulloch, I guess since we can't find this elusive relationship, we can't understand why faith if virtuous. But tell me, these people God/Christ showed himself to gained their faith by sight. We are suppose to gain ours by blindness. On a side note: what exact righteous works did Jesus do? I don't mean to change the thread or anything, I am just curious. His miracles? Were these the righteous works?? His sacrifice??? I jut want clarification on what righteous works Christ did.