Sun stood still (Earth stopped rotating)

[Zzyzx]

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Sun stood still (Earth stopped rotating)

Joshua 10:12Then Joshua spoke to the LORD in the day when the LORD delivered up the Amorites before the sons of Israel, and he said in the sight of Israel, "O sun, stand still at Gibeon, And O moon in the valley of Aijalon." 13So the sun stood still, and the moon stopped, Until the nation avenged themselves of their enemies. Is it not written in the book of Jashar? And the sun stopped in the middle of the sky and did not hasten to go down for about a whole day. 14There was no day like that before it or after it, when the LORD listened to the voice of a man; for the LORD fought for Israel.


Here, in layman's language, is an idea of what would happen if the Earth stopped rotating.

There are two things to keep in mind:
1. An object in motion tends to stay in motion unless acted upon by an outside force.
2. Everything that is on the surface of the Earth is also spinning with the Earth, which is why we experience day and night.

At the moment of sudden stop, every object that was not firmly anchored to the Earth would continue traveling in the direction it was moving -- tangential to the Earth's surface. The degree of "lurch" would depend greatly on your line of latitude -- which reflects your distance from the axis of spin. At the North and South Pole a small piece of earth has 24 hours to move in a full circle around the axis, which is feet to fractions-of-an-inch per hour (i.e. pretty darn slow). At the equator -- the farthest distance from the axis -- the surface of the Earth is moving at 1670 kilometers/hour (1070 miles/hr).

In other words: at the moment of sudden stop everyone standing at the equator would suddenly find themselves travelling at 1.4 times the speed of sound relative to the now-still surface...at least until they hit something.

And then the real fun starts.

Amongst the things that would still be moving (per Newton's first law of motion) is the atmosphere. Anyone who survived flying sideways at 1000+ miles per hour would quickly realize that they were experiencing the worst wind storm ever imaginable. For context, a category five hurricane has winds of over 249km/h (155 miles/h). Just like the people who went flying, the speed of the air is now 1000+ miles per hour relative to the now-stopped surface. Anything that didn't already go zooming to one side would be getting smashed by crushing wind force...and probably then go flying.

And then there's the fact that about 70% of the Earth's surface is water -- which is also not anchored. The shift in momentum would yield enormous tsunamis, which would probably be even worse due to the aforementioned raging windstorm.

There's yet one more liquid we'd have to be concerned with: all of the magma constantly moving through the Earth's mantle and core. I'm not sure whether the magma stops moving suddenly with the solid earth or it stays moving -- but assuming it's still moving*, that would most likely lead to volcanic eruptions through every channel possible to the surface...and there would be earthquakes that go with that.
https://www.quora.com/What-would-happen ... rotating-1

When the Earth began rotating again the reverse would happen . . .

Still believe ancient tales about the Earth ceasing rotation? What sort of mental gymnastics and/or willful ignorance of physics and astronomy does it take to keep believing tales by ancients who thought the Sun revolved around the Earth?

Would it not be more rational to understand that the tale is a TALL TALE -- a religious fantasy?

[tigger2]

[Replying to post 1 by Zzyzx]

Yes, if the earth stopped rotating, we'd all be wiped out by the disaster. (Unless you consider that with God all things are possible.)

But the scripture didn't say the earth stood still. I imagine there are a number of ways that an all-powerful God could make it appear to earthlings that the sun stood still for a number of hours.

For one example, have you seen the science fiction shows that show a person who has the ability to slow or stop time for others (or speed himself up instead)? Wouldn't it appear to him that the sun suddenly stood still?

Do you know for a certainty that God could not do something similar? Even just causing men to believe that such a thing happened,

[Zzyzx]

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[Replying to post 2 by tigger2]

That would be an example of the "mental gymnastics" I mentioned.

Of course if we are talking in make-believe, science fiction, or religious speculation ANYTHING can be "explained".

"Goddidit" and that's all there is to say . . . However, here in C&A debate we do not assume that religious speculation is truthful and accurate (or authoritative or proof of truth).

[Divine Insight]

I have to agree with tigger2 on this.

If we allow the premise that an omnipotent magical God is involved then the arguments given in the OP are moot. Why should a God who created the laws of physics NOT KNOW that if he wants to stop the rotation of the earth he will need to stop the motion of every object on the surface as well?

That would be basic physics 101 to God.

This is why I say that these kinds of scientific arguments against a supernatural God are futile. If a supernatural God exists who actually created this universe and knows precisely how it works, he would be able to perform every miracle in the Bible without exception.

This is why denying these miracles on scientific grounds is silly.

If you want to bring science into the picture a far better way to bring it in is to show contradiction between what the Bible actually has to say about the universe versus what we actually see. Actual errors in the Bible cannot be dismissed just because the God is "supernatural". To the contrary, an omniscient God shouldn't get anything wrong about how the universe works.

Getting back to the supernatural miracles. My objection to these miracles is not that an omnipotent supernatural God couldn't do them. He certainly could. My question is more of a theological question, "Why would a supposedly all-intelligent God play such petty unintelligent tricks?"

That makes no sense.

And why would the supposed creator of the universe be playing favorites with Israel? Again total nonsense.

This is clearly just a cultural superstition. No need to even bring science into it.

[Yahu]

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Sun stood still (Earth stopped rotating)

Joshua 10:12Then Joshua spoke to the LORD in the day when the LORD delivered up the Amorites before the sons of Israel, and he said in the sight of Israel, "O sun, stand still at Gibeon, And O moon in the valley of Aijalon." 13So the sun stood still, and the moon stopped, Until the nation avenged themselves of their enemies. Is it not written in the book of Jashar? And the sun stopped in the middle of the sky and did not hasten to go down for about a whole day. 14There was no day like that before it or after it, when the LORD listened to the voice of a man; for the LORD fought for Israel.

Here, in layman's language, is an idea of what would happen if the Earth stopped rotating.

When the Earth began rotating again the reverse would happen . . .

Still believe ancient tales about the Earth ceasing rotation? What sort of mental gymnastics and/or willful ignorance of physics and astronomy does it take to keep believing tales by ancients who thought the Sun revolved around the Earth?

Would it not be more rational to understand that the tale is a TALL TALE -- a religious fantasy?

You are assuming that to get the appearance of the sun not going down that the rotation stopped. That is a false assumption. Other factors could be involved.

Here is an example, if the axis of rotation was shifted due to some outside force, from a pole pointed towards the sun, the sun would appear to go in a circle in the sky instead of setting.

YOU are claiming that the ONLY option is to stop the rotation then restart it. That is poor logic.

Yes, it would take a MAJOR event to cause that situation but all we know is the observation from the ground in one location unless you find out what occurred in other civilizations around the world at the same time from their recorded history.

[Divine Insight]

Notice also that it says that the sun stopped for exactly one full day. I'm not sure how they timed this back then since I doubt they had mechanical clocks in those days.

None the less, since the sun stopped for exactly one full day, God could have simply created a "Sky Illusion". At some distance from the earth was created an orb that rotated with the earth giving the appearance of the sun staying in one place, whilst blocking from view what the "real sun" was actually doing.

And then the next day when this illusion sky lined back up with the actual sun it was turned back off again allowing the actual sun to be seen again.

There are countless ways we could imagine this trick being pulled off by an omnipotent God. Some of them might even be within the reach of an extremely advanced physical civilization.

The argument that it doesn't fit in with known laws of physics doesn't hold up as a meaningful argument against an imagined "omnipotent" God.

If we accept the premise that an omnipotent God actually exists, the there would be nothing he could not do.

The only question then becomes a theological question, "Why would an omnipotent God be playing these kind of tricks on humans? If he wanted to demonstrate his existence and power why not just speak from a cloud like he supposedly did in the New Testament?"

[Zzyzx]

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You are assuming that the rotation stopped. All we know is that the sun stayed in the sky from the perspective of the observers.

All we know is that there are TALES of the Sun staying overhead for a day.

For all we know, a pole of the axis could have shifted temporarily due to some outside force with the pole facing the sun.

From the perspective of electrical engineering, how would a polar shift produce the effect of sun stood still? How many degrees of shift do you propose?

The rapidly rotating Earth acts as a gyroscope. Consider the difficulty (force required) to change axial orientation of a gyroscope (or any rapidly rotating object) " and then to change it back a day later.

That doesn't imply a stop of rotation but a wobble induced into the planets orientation. Could it be self-correcting? Yes.

How would a wobble produce the claimed effect?

Since planets have magnetic fields, another body with a magnetic field would interact with the planet in strange ways.

Is this to suggest a close proximity of another body large enough to account for stationary Sun?

Evidence that such a thing occurred at that time? Or pure speculation? Did astronomers of the era make note of the large nearby object?

People tend to forget that the earth is a giant magnet. Magnets do strange things when they get close to another magnet. Magnetic poles have moved or even reversed. There could be major electrical discharges between bodies....

Kindly demonstrate how a magnetic movement or reversal would produce the stationary Sun.

We don't know the circumstances just the observed results.

We have only unverifiable TALES " and mental gymnastics attempting to explain them.

It is often prudent to stop digging.

[liamconnor]

[Replying to post 1 by Zzyzx]

I have no problem believing it was a tall tale.


At the same time, as any fundamentalist will tell you, the laws of physics were created by God. If that is so, the laws can be suspended. I have little interest in these sorts of things, but I do not like to systematize, and a rather complex range of situations emerges when I ponder the fundamentalist answer:

There are the natural consequences of natural causes (what we all believe in)

There are the natural consequences of supernatural causes (miraculous bread is still eaten, digested, and expelled; miraculous sperm undergoes the natural processes of development).

There are the supernatural consequences of supernatural causes: this would include the earth's suspension around the sun--not only does the earth stop moving (supernatural) but the consequences that normally would follow also are miraculously suspended. I think we could file the burning bush under this category. Assuming the fire itself was not caused naturally, the consequence--a non-burning bush--also would be supernatural.

I have not thought terribly hard about the Old Testament because it provides so few sources that interest me as an historically inclined person.

[Divine Insight]

Evidence that such a thing occurred at that time? Or pure speculation? Did astronomers of the era make note of the large nearby object?

Could have been a small black hole traveling through our solar system.

That would account for why no one saw it.

But actually that theory would not require a God having done it.

So ironically any scientific explanation blows away the need for a God.

[rikuoamero]

[Replying to post 6 by Divine Insight]

The only question then becomes a theological question, "Why would an omnipotent God be playing these kind of tricks on humans? If he wanted to demonstrate his existence and power why not just speak from a cloud like he supposedly did in the New Testament?"

My reply to this thread is to say "Well...if you're going to believe the sun-ceasing story because an omnipotent god could have done it without causing a complete extinction event, what else are you going to believe because an omnipotent god could have done?"
My own answer to that question is - everything. At that point, to be logically consistent, you'd have to allow each and every claim from everyone forever to stand because...hey, an omnipotent god could do it.
There'd be no restriction. Oh, it doesn't look like Mike shot John with the gun? Well...Mike really did, it doesn't look like he did because God wiped his fingerprints off the gun.
Sally's tiara that she keeps in her bedroom is missing, despite no sign of forced entry? Why, God helped Nick, the suspected burgler (named so by Sally) phase through the door after teleporting him a hundred miles away from the diner where he was seen on CCTV.
Would we have any claims then, that would be too 'ridiculous' to be entertained?