You're a Thief!

[Divine Insight]

Just for the record this post is written for decent people to read. If you actually are a thief, then this post isn't going to make much sense to you.

Let's say that someone comes up to you and says the following:

"You are a thief! All you do is think about how you can get over on other people. All you do is look for opportunities to take what doesn't belong to you. You don't care about anyone but yourself. And you need to change your evil ways."

What would be your first reaction?

Well assuming that you are a decent person and you know these accusations are false, your first reaction would most likely be to ask this accuser, "Where in the world did you even get such a horrible idea about me?"

You know that the accusation is false right? So it's clear to you that all that really needs to be done here is to convince this accuser that these accusations are false. And even if you can't succeed in convincing the accuser that the accusations are false, you still know that they are indeed false accusations.

So, now if these accusations were made by some author of 2000-year-old religious texts what would change?

Would you suddenly think, "Gee, I must be a thief who is out to get over on everyone, and I don't care about anyone but myself"?

Surely not?

Questions for Debate:

Why should any decent person believe in an ancient religion that makes accusations toward them that they know to be false anymore than they should believe some stranger who just now came up to them making all manner of false accusations about them today?

[MadeNew]

[Replying to post 1 by Divine Insight]

Lets drop this "thief" example and get to what Christianity actually teaches about, that is "sin". Are you not a sinner? Are you a perfect person? Have you never regretted something you did or said? Have you always been the person you think you should be?

[Tired of the Nonsense]

Just for the record this post is written for decent people to read. If you actually are a thief, then this post isn't going to make much sense to you.

Let's say that someone comes up to you and says the following:

"You are a thief! All you do is think about how you can get over on other people. All you do is look for opportunities to take what doesn't belong to you. You don't care about anyone but yourself. And you need to change your evil ways."

What would be your first reaction?

Well assuming that you are a decent person and you know these accusations are false, your first reaction would most likely be to ask this accuser, "Where in the world did you even get such a horrible idea about me?"

You know that the accusation is false right? So it's clear to you that all that really needs to be done here is to convince this accuser that these accusations are false. And even if you can't succeed in convincing the accuser that the accusations are false, you still know that they are indeed false accusations.

So, now if these accusations were made by some author of 2000-year-old religious texts what would change?

Would you suddenly think, "Gee, I must be a thief who is out to get over on everyone, and I don't care about anyone but myself"?

Surely not?

Questions for Debate:

Why should any decent person believe in an ancient religion that makes accusations toward them that they know to be false anymore than they should believe some stranger who just now came up to them making all manner of false accusations about them today?

Let's make Peds nurse the subject of your example. No one here would reasonably accuse her of being wicked, and everyone here is already aware of how irredeemable you and I are.

[MadeNew]

Just for the record this post is written for decent people to read. If you actually are a thief, then this post isn't going to make much sense to you.

Let's say that someone comes up to you and says the following:

"You are a thief! All you do is think about how you can get over on other people. All you do is look for opportunities to take what doesn't belong to you. You don't care about anyone but yourself. And you need to change your evil ways."

What would be your first reaction?

Well assuming that you are a decent person and you know these accusations are false, your first reaction would most likely be to ask this accuser, "Where in the world did you even get such a horrible idea about me?"

You know that the accusation is false right? So it's clear to you that all that really needs to be done here is to convince this accuser that these accusations are false. And even if you can't succeed in convincing the accuser that the accusations are false, you still know that they are indeed false accusations.

So, now if these accusations were made by some author of 2000-year-old religious texts what would change?

Would you suddenly think, "Gee, I must be a thief who is out to get over on everyone, and I don't care about anyone but myself"?

Surely not?

Questions for Debate:

Why should any decent person believe in an ancient religion that makes accusations toward them that they know to be false anymore than they should believe some stranger who just now came up to them making all manner of false accusations about them today?

Let's make Peds nurse the subject of your example. No one here would reasonably accuse her of being wicked, and everyone here is already aware of how irredeemable you and I are.

Thats great! Lets take Ped Nurse as example, we should ask her if she is a sinner to see what she says.

[Divine Insight]

[Replying to post 1 by Divine Insight]

Lets drop this "thief" example and get to what Christianity actually teaches about, that is "sin". Are you not a sinner? Are you a perfect person? Have you never regretted something you did or said? Have you always been the person you think you should be?

And let's drop your example that anything less than perfection = a "sinner".

Let's take a look what what the Christian scriptures actually say:

Romans 1:
[28] And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
[29] Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
[30] Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
[31] Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
[32] Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

This is hardly suggesting that someone is merely "less than perfect"

And besides, a God who would create humans who are less than perfect and then condemn them to eternal damnation for being less than perfect would himself be far less than a perfect God. And thus by this very same line of reasoning he would need to be damned along with everyone else.

It's an impossible theology to defend.

[Divine Insight]

Thats great! Lets take Ped Nurse as example, we should ask her if she is a sinner to see what she says.

All Christians are convinced that they are sinners. This is a necessary requirement of being a Christian. If they sneezed in church they would probably consider that to be a "sin" of some sort because they weren't "perfect" enough to hold back the sneeze.

It's not realistic at all.

In fact, if you change that "sneeze" to a fart they would probably get down on their hands and needs and confess that they deserve to be cast straight into hell for having farted in church.

[MadeNew]

[Replying to post 1 by Divine Insight]

Lets drop this "thief" example and get to what Christianity actually teaches about, that is "sin". Are you not a sinner? Are you a perfect person? Have you never regretted something you did or said? Have you always been the person you think you should be?

And let's drop your example that anything less than perfection = a "sinner".

Let's take a look what what the Christian scriptures actually say:

Romans 1:
[28] And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
[29] Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
[30] Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
[31] Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
[32] Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

This is hardly suggesting that someone is merely "less than perfect"

And besides, a God who would create humans who are less than perfect and then condemn them to eternal damnation for being less than perfect would himself be far less than a perfect God. And thus by this very same line of reasoning he would need to be damned along with everyone else.

It's an impossible theology to defend.

Should parents also take responsibility for their children's rebellion?

And yes, sin is defined as "missing the mark", or being less then perfect.
So are you a sinner?

"Hebrew words for "sin" The Hebrew word most often translated as "sin" in our English Bibles is the word chata'ah (חֲטָ�ָה), which means "missing the mark,""
http://www.hebrew4christians.com/Medita ... ta_ah.html

[MadeNew]

Thats great! Lets take Ped Nurse as example, we should ask her if she is a sinner to see what she says.

All Christians are convinced that they are sinners. This is a necessary requirement of being a Christian. If they sneezed in church they would probably consider that to be a "sin" of some sort because they weren't "perfect" enough to hold back the sneeze.

It's not realistic at all.

In fact, if you change that "sneeze" to a fart they would probably get down on their hands and needs and confess that they deserve to be cast straight into hell for having farted in church.

Ok, I sneeze and fart all the time, sometimes even in church, and i have never felt that way... Mr. "realist"...

[Divine Insight]

Should parents also take responsibility for their children's rebellion?

Now you're talking!

Yes parents should take responsibility for their children's rebellion.

Children rebelling against their parents can only be due to two things.

1. The Parents failed to be good mentors.

Or

2. The Children are mentally ill and need to be healed.

In the case of humans there's not much that can be done in either of these cases.

However a supposedly omnipotent God has no excuse for either of failings.

In fact, the very moment that you start comparing your God with human parents you've already implied that your God is as helpless and inept as human parents.

[Divine Insight]

Thats great! Lets take Ped Nurse as example, we should ask her if she is a sinner to see what she says.

All Christians are convinced that they are sinners. This is a necessary requirement of being a Christian. If they sneezed in church they would probably consider that to be a "sin" of some sort because they weren't "perfect" enough to hold back the sneeze.

It's not realistic at all.

In fact, if you change that "sneeze" to a fart they would probably get down on their hands and needs and confess that they deserve to be cast straight into hell for having farted in church.

Ok, I sneeze and fart all the time, sometimes even in church, and i have never felt that way... Mr. "realist"...

How can you say this after you just claimed that if you aren't "Perfect" you're a sinner? Just how imperfect do you allow yourself to be before you consider it to be a "sin"?