[center]Atheism: the art of defying logic, reason and commonsense[/center]
Throughout my years of traveling and meeting different people, I have also met atheists, among whom I have made friends. I have also realized that there are three different groups of atheists:
1- Those, who have been hurt, offended or disappointed in church, and the so called people of God.
2- Those, who could not resist or break free from their families pressure; they gave in, following the non-belief ideology, which was imposed on them.
3- The third is a smart bunch, want to make a "splash" or make money challenging the big guy God. This way they would look bigger and smarter to impress, or to make speeches and write books to gain fame and make money.
What is the common thread among these three groups?
In two word: emotional reaction.
Let us switch our magnificent mind to the channel reads Neutral, where we can come to conclusions that are most beneficial, first and for most, to ourselves, our peace of mind and potential prosperity.
Definitions:
Logic is a systematic approach to a problem.
Reason is basically answering the question why. It implies rationality.
Common sense is exercising good sense and sound judgment in practical matters.
- We depend on air, every second, to continue to live, but we cant see Air, why cant be there a God whom we cant see but feel his present? (Reason).
- We came from apes and survival is for the fittest. Why then, as human species we have, for generations, an acceptable system of passing inheritance to succeeding generations? This defies the concept of survival is for the fittest, since it gives some people advantages over others, also makes them depended on those who pass the inheritance (thus, they are not necessarily the fittest). (Logic).
- If life came about as a result of a big bang theory: Our universe is thought to have begun as an infinitesimally small, infinitely hot, infinitely dense- a miracle. Where did it come from? We don't know. Why did it appear? We don't know. After its initial appearance, it apparently inflated (the "Big Bang") http://www.big-bang-theory.com/.
So, the question is, if that is how it came about, what would stop this phenomenon from happening again? And what could be the results? A major explosion covering the entire universe? This appears to contradict having an order in the universe as many scientists have testified. If we (the human species) were a product of such a disorderly "Big Bang", how come then we always seek harmony and order for our lives? (Common sense).
Atheism, the art of defying logic, reason and commonsense.
Moderator: Moderators
Re: Atheism, the art of defying logic, reason and commonsens
Post #11[Replying to Divine Insight]
Divine Insight wrote:
When we examine the realty of our world today, or throughout the human history, what would be your answers to these questions?
Politicians, would you say most of them are honest?
Presidents and kings, can you say most of them have been good and diligently work for the good of their people?
Business people, would you say that most of them play by the rules, constantly trying to avoid cheating and bending the rules?
Salespeople, can you say that the majority are always telling you the truth about an item, which they are trying to sell without any exaggeration or adding some lies?
The list goes on and on in every aspect of our lives.
So, where did the teaching
The answer is very simple and can be drawn from your previous post #5, it is the corrupt elements of religion and those who twist the pure teaching of the Bible for personal gain.
Does the Bible speak of all people and paint them all with one brush as bad and sinners? False. Completely untrue. Please read some examples:
Abram
Genesis 15:6 And Abram believed the LORD, and the LORD counted him as righteous because of his faith.
Lot
Gen. 19:15 And when the morning arose, then the angels hastened Lot, saying, Arise, take thy wife, and thy two daughters, which are here; lest thou be consumed in the iniquity of the city. 2 Pet 2: 8, For that righteous man dwelling among them.
Job
Job 1:8 And the Lord said unto Satan, Have you considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man?
Then there are King David, Moses, Samuel, Rahab and Ruth . These are just few examples from the Old Testaments to show you that what the Bible says, and what the corrupted teachers, pastors, priests, etc. say, are completely the opposite. All these examples are from the past, to show you that God from the beginning was just and compassionate.
Luke 13:3, I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish.
Repentance and changing bad behaviors and evil thoughts and actions are requirements to receive salvation.
Acts 3:19 Repent, then, and turn to God, so that your sins may be wiped out, that times of refreshing may come from the Lord.
Therefore the premise of your point No.4 cannot be granted.
All the best
[center]You will know the truth, and the truth will set you free." John 8:32[/center]
Divine Insight wrote:
Respectfully and totally disagree, and right here, where the discussion needs to have facts injected into it.1. Supposedly humans are all sinners who have turned against God and lust to do evil things.
When we examine the realty of our world today, or throughout the human history, what would be your answers to these questions?
Politicians, would you say most of them are honest?
Presidents and kings, can you say most of them have been good and diligently work for the good of their people?
Business people, would you say that most of them play by the rules, constantly trying to avoid cheating and bending the rules?
Salespeople, can you say that the majority are always telling you the truth about an item, which they are trying to sell without any exaggeration or adding some lies?
The list goes on and on in every aspect of our lives.
So, where did the teaching
come from?humans are all sinners who have turned against God and lust to do evil things
The answer is very simple and can be drawn from your previous post #5, it is the corrupt elements of religion and those who twist the pure teaching of the Bible for personal gain.
Does the Bible speak of all people and paint them all with one brush as bad and sinners? False. Completely untrue. Please read some examples:
Abram
Genesis 15:6 And Abram believed the LORD, and the LORD counted him as righteous because of his faith.
Lot
Gen. 19:15 And when the morning arose, then the angels hastened Lot, saying, Arise, take thy wife, and thy two daughters, which are here; lest thou be consumed in the iniquity of the city. 2 Pet 2: 8, For that righteous man dwelling among them.
Job
Job 1:8 And the Lord said unto Satan, Have you considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man?
Then there are King David, Moses, Samuel, Rahab and Ruth . These are just few examples from the Old Testaments to show you that what the Bible says, and what the corrupted teachers, pastors, priests, etc. say, are completely the opposite. All these examples are from the past, to show you that God from the beginning was just and compassionate.
Agree.2. God sends his only begotten Son to earth with a message of salvation for humans.
it is a historical fact.3. Humans turn against God and brutally crucify God's only begotten Son in the most horrific and disrespectful way possible.
Untrue, completely false, there is no free salvation; this teaching belongs to the corrupted teachers, the ones with an agenda to control and ultimately manipulate people to use them as a source of easy money or fame. The Bible has stated clearly and beyond any shadow of doubt:4. God then offers us FREE SALVATION for having done even MORE wrongs against him.
Luke 13:3, I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish.
Repentance and changing bad behaviors and evil thoughts and actions are requirements to receive salvation.
Acts 3:19 Repent, then, and turn to God, so that your sins may be wiped out, that times of refreshing may come from the Lord.
Therefore the premise of your point No.4 cannot be granted.
All the best
[center]You will know the truth, and the truth will set you free." John 8:32[/center]
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Re: Atheism, the art of defying logic, reason and commonsens
Post #12[Replying to post 1 by E.G]
"1- Those, who have been hurt, offended or disappointed in church, and the so called people of God.
2- Those, who could not resist or break free from their families pressure; they gave in, following the non-belief ideology, which was imposed on them.
3- The third is a smart bunch, want to make a "splash" or make money challenging the big guy God. This way they would look bigger and smarter to impress, or to make speeches and write books to gain fame and make money. "
What a bunch of nonsense.
I do not belong to none of this groups.
I went to church with my family till the age of 16. I stopped believing when i become very interested in science, biology, cosmology; become more educated and less ignorant.
1. I was never offended by Christians when i was in church. They were all nice people. It was a nice experience all in all.
2. My family are all Christians (Penticostals) so the pressure was to remain Christian not the opposite.
3. I don't wanna be famous or make money or to impress with my intelligence. It irritates me greatly when i see the world full of people that suffer/had suffered/will suffer greatly because of ignorance, stupidity, superstitious nonsense.
I can't believe nonsense because my logic, common sense, reason stops me to do so.
Here some reasons why i don't believe:
A. The logical and evidential problem of evil.
Mostly natural evil that affect beings that are not rational like small children, animals, mentally impaired people.
http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/evil/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Problem_of_evil
B. The problem of divine hiddenness
http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/divine-hiddenness/
Christian say that their god Yahweh is a personal god the gets involved in his creation and interacts with people.
But there is not one piece of evidence of his involvement and interaction. Not one single evidence. Zero.
Not one single so called "miracle" or "supernatural event" has been proven true.
Not one "miracle healing" has been proven true.
(we only see claims of miracle healing for diseases and illnesses that can go away on their own. We don't see amputees with their limbs grown back, no one cured of MS, Down syndrome, fragile X syndrome, Congenital hypothyroidism, Prader"Willi syndrome, 22q13 deletion syndrome, Huntington's disease, Acute intermittent porphyria, and so one; seems convenient).
C. Christians base their belief on logical fallacies and logical impossibilities:
1.The equivocation in the The Ontological Argument for God is a logical fallacy.
http://skeptico.blogs.com/skeptico/2009 ... uttal.html
2.The problem with The Kalam Argument for God.
http://www.strongatheism.net/library/co ... d_premise/
3.The so called evidence like personal experience; some books: Bible, Torah, Qu'ran, Vedas, Teachings of Buddha, Analects of Confucius; people changing and becoming good because of these book; testimonies based on personal experiences; can't be considered compelling evidence when proving God exists; because humans mind is a fickle thing: people can have false memories; can have visual, auditory, olfactive hallucinations; can be mentally ill; are gullible, naive, impressionable, trusting, deceivable, easily led; most of them are ignorant, most of them are with average/below intelligence(73%).
Anecdotal fallacy " using a personal experience or an isolated example instead of sound reasoning or compelling evidence.
4.The argument from incredulity is a logical fallacy that occurs when someone decides that something did not happen, because they cannot personally understand how it could happen.
The fallacy is an argument from ignorance and an informal fallacy.(God of the gaps)
5.Fallacy of the single cause (causal oversimplification) " it is assumed that there is one, simple cause of an outcome when in reality it may have been caused by a number of only jointly sufficient causes. (God as a single cause for creation of the universe and life)
6.Christians create a more complex but equally fallacious type of circular reasoning ; a circular chain of reasoning like this one: "God exists." "How do you know that God exists?" "The Bible says so." "Why should I believe the Bible?" "Because it's the inspired word of God."
7. God is not omnipotent and omniscient. God is Limited
7.1.Logical Limitations: An Omnipotent God is Impossible
- Irrational and illogical actions such as creating a "round square" or making 2+2=5 or if given the axioms of Riemannian geometry, creating a triangle whose angles do not add up to 180 degrees, appear to be impossible even for an all-powerful God.
- Self-limiting actions such as making itself non-existent, or, removing its own power of omnipotency, are often said to be impossible for an all-powerful being. If it chose to make itself unable to do a particular action then it would be a simple gesture for this being to re-instate its power. For example, if the all-powerful God knows that in the year 2050 it will cause an Earthquake, but, in the year 2040 it removes its own power to cause natural disasters, it can of course do two things, (1) use its omnipotency to give itself the power again, or (2) in 2030 to jump ahead in time and do it before it removed its own ability. Also if such a being decides "I shall for all time not have the ability to do something", then, it can only do that action if it does have the ability to do it. This self-negation causes an impossible time-continuum contradiction. It thusly seems impossible for it to stop itself from performing any action.
- God Cannot be Responsible for Creating Logic Itself:
In order to create, to think, God's thoughts must be more than random. To create the universe and its laws, God must be able to think logically. If it can't think logically, then, the laws of the universe were simply random, and the Universe might as well been self-created in an atheistic manner. In other words, for God to exist, God's thoughts must have always been ordered in a logical manner otherwise God could never have created order from chaos.
This means that logic is a precursor to God. Logic, with its simple relations and rules that lets thought itself be ordered, must have existed independently of God's creative power. God could not have created the logic because requires logical thoughts to do any meaningful creating.
7.2.God Cannot Lie
Psalm 119:89, Hebrews 6:18, Titus 1:2, 2 Timothy 2:13
7.3.God Can't Be Tempted
James 1:13: I.e., God has no free will to act evilly.
7.4.The Cruci-fiction Facade
If God required Jesus and the sacrifice of Jesus in order to forgive sin and the like(defeat death or other nonsense), then God is not omnipotent. If God is omnipotent, then, it did not need the crucifixion for any purpose at all.
7.5.Can God Defeat Iron Chariots?
Judges 4:13-16: Sisera gathered nine hundred chariots, but the LORD defeated them for Deborah and Barak, whose 10,000 men then killed all of Sisera's men.
Judges 1:19: "And the LORD was with Judah; and he drave out the inhabitants of the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron."
7.6.God Is Not Omniscient
7.7.There Are Times in the Bible When God Doesnt Know All, and Tests People to Find Things Out
The Bible says God is perfect in knowledge, knows all thoughts, all secrets, sees all and no-one can hide from God. See: 1 Samuel 2:3, Job 28:24; 37:16; 42:2, Psalm 44:21; 139:4,7-8; 147:5, Proverbs 15:3, Jeremiah 16:17, 23:24, Acts 1:24, Hebrews 4:13, Matthew 10:30 and 1 John 3:19-20. Yet there are times when God doesnt know things, such as where people are. Check these verses:
Genesis 3:8-13 " Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the Lord, amongst the trees of the garden, and God had to go find them, and then asks them questions.
Genesis 11:4 -9 " Tower of Babel;: God comes down to see what the people are up to.
Genesis 6:6 " And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart. An omniscient LORD would have no reason to repent for he would have known in advance how his creations would turn out.
Genesis 18:20-21 " Then the LORD said, The outcry against Sodom and Gomorrah is so great and their sin so grievous 21 that I will go down and see if what they have done is as bad as the outcry that has reached me. If not, I will know.
Genesis 32:22-30 " In this obscure story, Jacob wrestles with God in bodily form and sees God face-to-face. God asks Jacob what Jacobs name is; yet an all-knowing god would know
Numbers 22:9 " Balaam and some Moabite officials spend a night waiting for God, who duly pops down for a visit, And God came unto Balaam, and said, What men are these with thee? An all-knowing God would have known.
Job 1:7, 2:2 " And the Lord said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the Lord, and said, from going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.
Hosea 8:4 " Some princes of Israel were set up without Gods knowledge.
7.8 Sometimes, it is said in the Bible that God tests people.
In Deuteronomy 8:1-2 God reveals that the 40-years in the wilderness was a test done by God to find out what was in peoples hearts " whether they would still obey orders.
In Deuteronomy 13:1-5 God sends some false prophets and wonder-workers as tests to see if people will follow other gods, and in 2 Chronicles 32:31 God is doing similar fact-finding tests.
Yet an all-knowing God, creator of all time, knows exactly who will pass any tests, and knows exactly what is in everyones heart. So either God is lying about his reasons, or, god is not actually all-knowing. See: God Never Needs to Test Us by Vexen Crabtree (2005).
7.9.Tower of Babel Story Proves Once More That God is Not Omniscient
Genesis
11:4 And they said, Go to, let us build us a city and a tower, whose top may reach unto heaven; and let us make us a name, lest we be scattered abroad upon the face of the whole earth.
11:5 And the LORD came down to see the city and the tower, which the children of men builded.
11:6 And the LORD said, Behold, the people is one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do. Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one anothers speech.
11:8 So the LORD scattered them abroad from thence upon the face of all the earth: and they left off to build the city.
11:9 Therefore is the name of it called Babel; because the LORD did there confound the language of all the earth: and from thence did the LORD scatter them abroad upon the face of all the earth.
This passage demonstrates two instances of the Bibles errors
1. The supposedly omniscient God did not know humans were incapable of building a tower whose top may reach unto heaven.
2. The supposedly omniscient God did not KNOW that there were already multiple languages.
By these were the isles of the Gentiles divided in their lands; every one after his tongue, after their families, in their nations. Genesis 10:5
God must have forgotten about this verse.
According to the above verses, God believed that these people could actually build a tower whose top may reach unto heaven.
In science, before a hypothesis can be accepted as true, it must be falsifiable. That is, there must be something, which, if found, would prove the hypothesis to be false. The hypothesis that God is omniscient is falsified with this passage. God did not know that humans were unable to reach heaven no matter how tall a tower they built.
In addition, this passage contains another example of Gods lack of knowledge.
And the LORD came down to see the city and the tower
If God were omniscient, he wouldnt have to come down to see . He would know, without having to come down, what the people were doing and what their intentions were.
Multiple Language " Internal Inconsistency and Erroneous History
In this chapter we learn that languages were created and people dispersed during the time of Babel.
11:9 Therefore is the name of it called Babel; because the LORD did there confound the language of all the earth: and from thence did the LORD scatter them abroad upon the face of all the earth.
But just one chapter earlier, we are told that Noahs sons actually divided the people into their nations along with creating their own tongues.
Genesis 10:5 By these were the isles of the Gentiles divided in their lands; every one after his tongue, after their families, in their nations.
Linguistics is the scientific study of how languages develop. No linguist believes that different languages originated with the dispersion of Noahs sons or the dispersion of the peoples of Babel. Both stories are fables.
8. An omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient, perfectly good creator that has free will is logically impossible.
-An omniscient being cannot have free will because it is predestined by its own knowledge of its future actions.
-A perfectly benevolent, good God cannot have free will because there is only one perfect course of action, which God, being perfectly good, must follow.
-If God created free will then it cannot itself already have had free will before it done so: yet, an omniscient being already knew (before it created free will) everything it would do. Therefore any creator-god cannot have free will about any of its actions.
-If a being is all-knowing, then, it knows exactly what actions it itself will make at any point in history. This removes the ability of the God to actually change its mind, alter the grand plan, or in other words, to exercise free will in any way, as the all-powerful and all-knowing being is guided purely by a deterministic fate based on infallible knowledge of its own future actions. An all-knowing and all-powerful being cannot be a moral being and is probably an unconscious automaton (ergo, not divine). -Out of the possible options in a situation God always makes the best choice because it is perfectly benevolent. It cannot do something that is less moral or "good" than something else, because that would not be perfectly good, but merely second-best good. In every situation, God only has one choice: The most moral/good one. God does not have free will. It can make no choices, there are no possibilities for an omniscient-benevolent God to choose from. In order to give God its free will, we would have to take away its omniscience - its all-knowing nature - or take away its benevolence.
-Christians may say God could potentially choose between two equally perfect acts. This is more interesting if you hold that everything God does is perfect by causal definition. But the argument destroys itself: If God chooses one act rather than another, then the act that God chooses must be the better act in order for God to have chosen it. Either that, or God behaves randomly (which is not free will). When God acts, it does so perfectly... so there are therefore no "choices" to be made: Whatever choices God makes are the best ones (even between two apparently perfect options), and therefore a perfect God cannot possibly have any genuine free will.
A perfectly good, omniscient God with free will is impossible.
-A being with no free will cannot be morally good as it makes no moral choices; it can only be morally neutral like a robot.
-It seems that morality and perfectly, omniscient God are contradictory.
God cannot be the author of morality nor can it itself be moral.
-If something is perfect, it is complete--it needs nothing else. We humans engage in activities because we are pursuing that elusive perfection, because there is disequilibrium caused by a difference between what we are and what we want to be. If God is perfect, there can be no disequilibrium. There is nothing he needs, nothing he desires, and nothing he must or will do. A God who is perfect does nothing except exist.
P1. An omniscient God knows creating creatures with free will lead to evil, chaos, entropy, disorder, disequilibrium.
P2. God is perfect, is self-sustaining, with no needs, perfect order therefore he would not do something that would lead to disequilibrium and disturbed the perfect state, therefore he would not create anything and would not do anything, therefore he would only exist.
C: A perfect, omniscient, omnipotent creator God is impossible.
9. An omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient, perfectly good God that is anthropomorphic(experience emotions like anger, jealousy, regret, and so one) is logically impossible.
A God who knows everything cannot have emotions. The Bible says that God experiences all of the emotions of humans, including anger, sadness, jealousy and happiness. We humans experience emotions as a result of new knowledge. A man who had formerly been ignorant of his wifes infidelity will experience the emotions of anger and sadness only after he has learned what had previously been hidden. In contrast, the omniscient God is ignorant of nothing. Nothing is hidden from him, nothing new may be revealed to him, so there is no gained knowledge to which he may emotively react.
We humans experience anger and frustration when something is wrong which we cannot fix. The perfect, omnipotent God, however, can fix anything. Humans experience longing for things we lack. The perfect God lacks nothing.
An omniscient, omnipotent, and perfect God who experiences emotion is impossible.
14 Do not worship any other god, for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God. (Exodus 34:14)
15 for the LORD your God, who is among you, is a jealous God and his anger will burn against you, and he will destroy you from the face of the land.(Deuteronomy 6:15)
16 They made him jealous with their foreign gods and angered him with their detestable idols. (Deuteronomy 32:16)
19 Joshua said to the people, You are not able to serve the LORD. He is a holy God; he is a jealous God. He will not forgive your rebellion and your sins. (Joshua 24:19)
5 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, (Exodus 20:5)
"Even at Horeb you provoked the LORD to wrath, and the LORD was so angry with you that He would have destroyed you. (Deuteronomy 9:8)
"So the LORD'S anger burned against Israel, and He made them wander in the wilderness forty years, until the entire generation of those who had done evil in the sight of the LORD was destroyed. (Numbers 32:13)
A God who knows everything cannot have regret or be surprised.
Let's look at this line from Genesis 6:5-6 :
"And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart."
Wait a minute. God saw the wickedness of man and was sorrowful and regretted creating humans and this earth.
"13And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth."
These are two interesting lines here. Why would an omniscient being actually be surprised and depressed about a situation that he knew was going to come to pass? People, forget about the initial creation of man. From the moment the Christian god chose to create mankind, he knew our past, present and future. In actuality, these concepts of linear time would not have meant anything to the Christian god. He would know just know everything about us. So god knew that the Nephlim were coming to earth. God knew that man would become wicked (because of original sin that was brought about by a situation that he created himself. But that is another thing altogether.) Why would he feel sorry and regret making us. If god is indeed capable of feeling regret, wouldn't he have felt that from the simple knowledge of humanities existence. Then why create us? It seem that the biblical god is actually surprised that man is so wicked.
But what exactly is regret? How do we define it in today's society. "According to Landman's research (1993),
"Regret is a more or less painful cognitive and emotional state of feeling sorry for misfortunes, limitations, losses, transgressions, shortcomings, or mistakes. It is an experience of felt-reason or reasoned-emotion. The regretted matters may be sins of commission as well as sins of omission; they may range from the voluntary to the uncontrollable and accidental; they may be actually executed deeds or entirely mental ones committed by oneself or by another person or group; they may be moral or legal transgressions or morally and legally neutral. . . ."(p. 36)
Now notice here that regret is used in the context of a person feeling regret for their actions or inaction's. The consequences that follow and the things that one cannot control at times, i.e. losses and limitations. Which one of these categories does the Christian God fall into?
P1. An omniscient God knows very action any human does long before that human exists, long before the universe exists, therefore he would not get angry or be surprised, have regrets because of what humans do.
P2. God is perfect, is self-sustaining, with no needs, perfect order therefore he would not do something that would lead to disequilibrium and disturbed the perfect state (get angry, get jealous, have regrets, be passionate about something).
C: A omnipotent, omniscient, perfect creator God is impossible.
D. 1. Many Christians believe God created Adam and Eve 6000 years ago.
But ignore all the fossils of homo sapiens found that are older then tens of thousands of years old, all the ancients sites that are older then 9000 years old, all the caves painting that are tens of thousands of years old.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hofmeyr_Skull
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chauvet_Cave
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ussher_chronology
http://www.hebroots.com/lul7_8.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gbekli_Tepe
2. Other Christians believe God chose some modern humans hundreds of thousands of years ago to communicate with them because they were the most intelligent animals with the biggest brain.
But Neanderthals have bigger brain and skulls then modern humans. They lived at the same time tens of thousands of years ago. Research suggests they fashioned tools, buried their dead, maybe cared for the sick and even conversed. They might even inbreeded with the modern humans.
http://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-n ... 03/?no-ist
https://www.theguardian.com/science/201 ... scientists
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/science ... -good.html
E. Christians believe that after Adam sin the world become corrupted(natural evils-diseases, natural disasters, struggle of life, animals becoming carnivors and so one).
There was no corruption of the world because of the original sin. The story of Adam is a fable.
1. In rare instances, DNA is known to jump from one species to another, leaving a signature in the genome of the creature it moves to.
Scientists have now discovered one of these signatures - known as a DNA 'fossil' - dating back 25-17 million years ago in the genomes of modern birds.
Astonishingly this fossil DNA comes from a parasitic worm that is now responsible for some of the world's most grisly tropical diseases.
It suggests prehistoric birds were infected by these worms millions of years ago before the parasite jumped the species barrier and began infecting humans.
Alexander Suh, an expert in the small stretches of DNA called transportable elements that jump from one place to another at Uppsala University, helped make the discovery.
He discovered a new type of transposable element that occurred in certain bird genomes but not others, together with a team from eleven institutions in five countries.
By searching DNA databases, the team discovered that the only other animals that shared the new transposable element were nematode worms that are parasites of humans and other mammals.
'This finding was so unexpected that we were literally speechless at first,' he said.
By comparing the DNA sequences of each instance of the transposable element, his team was able to work out the transfer of DNA between nematodes and birds occurred in two waves across the entire tropics, including remote places like Madagascar.
It infected groups of birds such as parrots, hummingbirds and manakins, according to the study, published in the journal Nature Communications.
The researchers believe modern human parasite species of nematode worms made the move from infecting birds to humans some time sin the last 17 million years.
Two serious and gruesome human diseases are known to be caused by nematode worms and spread by mosquitoes - lymphatic filariasis and loiasis, known as eyeworm.
Lymphatic filariasis causes painful ulcers that can last for years, while people with loiasis, also known as loa loa, suffer from swollen eyes when worns inhabit the body part, with other symptoms including itching, joint pain, fatigue, and even death.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/ ... umans.html
2. Leprosy has plagued mankind throughout history, but is far, far older than stories about the disease in the Bible, according to scientists.
A new study claims the disease is probably the oldest infectious disease in humans with roots stretching back millions of years.
A scientist at the University of Texas MD Anderson Cancer Centre in Houston found that two leprosy-causing bacteria came from a last common bacterial ancestor around 10 million years ago and that ancient humans and hominids suffered from the disease.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/ ... study.html
3. Another bacteria to have gone through the genetic analysis is Bordetella pertussis, the bacteria responsible for whooping cough. Originally thought to have passed to humans via a similar species found in domestic animals, the molecular evidence once again suggests that it has been around since before animals were first domesticated. Instead it may have evolved from the bacteria B. bronchiseptica which was present around 2.5 million years ago with a preference for infecting hominids. This makes a rather neat little story of a bacteria adapting to fit the changing hominids as they became human and evolving specifically to fit the human niche .
http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/lab ... ancestors/
4. The oldest known evidence of Lyme disease may lie in ticks that were entombed in amber at least 15 million years ago, scientists announced.
The researchers investigated four fossilized ticks that had been trapped in chunks of amber found in the Dominican Republic. Inside the ticks' bodies, the scientists saw a large population of cells that looked like the squiggly shaped spirochete cells of the Borrelia genus " a type of bacteria that causes Lyme disease today.
http://www.livescience.com/46007-lyme-d ... -tick.html
5. It looks like the most badass predator to have ever roamed the Earth, but paleontologists have struggled to prove that Tyrannosaurus rex actually hunted its prey, leading some to believe that it was a scavenger. Now, the discovery of a T-rex tooth embedded in the tail of a hadrosaur offers the first direct evidence.
Top image: Robert DePalma depicts the possible attack scenario between a T-rex and hadrosaur.
That T-rex may have been a scavenger isnt as crazy a theory as it might appear; this is actually a longstanding debate that goes back nearly a century.
Was Tyrannosaurus Rex a fearsome predator or just another scavenger?
Paleontologists have uncovered tons of bones with tooth drag and puncture marks that would indicate predatory attacks, but these markings are difficult to attribute to a specific theropod. Whats more, some of these tooth marks could have been made on carcasses.
Yet other theories have speculated that there were too many Tyrannosauruses for the species to survive on hunting alone; it was more like a hyena than a cheetah or a lion, having to rely on opportunistic feeding to sate their appetites given their relative abundance.
Some even suspect it was a cannibal, or that it was a bully that preyed on
smaller dinosaurs.
http://io9.gizmodo.com/5767647/was-tyra ... -scavenger
6. Contrary to popular perceptions, humans are not the only animals that have difficulty during childbirth. One important characteristic of primates as a group is a large head and brain relative to body size (i.e., a high encephalization quotient). For most primates this means that their infants, at birth, have heads that are close to the size of the maternal birth canal through which they must pass. This is especially true of monkeys, lesser apes, and humans. Schultz 3,4 depicted this relationship in a classic figure, re-drawn here as Figure 1, showing the size of the maternal pelvic inlet and the infant cranium in Ateles, Nasalis, Macaca, Hylobates,
the great apes, and humans. The close correspondence between the size of the maternal pelvis and the size of neonatal cranium is obvious for monkeys, gibbons, and humans, whereas chimpanzees, gorillas, and orangutans appear to have spacious birth canals, probably as a result of their large bodies. As one would expect from examining these drawings, birth is reported to be difficult for the
smaller-bodied primates (monkeys and gibbons), as well as for humans, 5-9 but somewhat easier for the larger bodied (great) apes.
At some point in the evolutionary past of humans, the benefits of having assistance during birth outweighed the costs, so that the species-typical pattern of obligate midwifery emerged.
http://www.academia.edu/6580889/Bipedal ... _revisited
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obstetrical_dilemma
Gibbons (/bnz/[3]) are apes in the family Hylobatidae /halobtade, -di/[4]. The family historically contained one genus, but now is split into four genera and 17 species. Gibbons occur in tropical and subtropical rainforests from eastern Bangladesh and northeast India to southern China and Indonesia (including the islands ofSumatra, Borneo, and Java).
Whole genome molecular dating analyses indicate that the gibbon lineage diverged from that of great apes around 16.8 million years ago (Mya) (95% confidence interval: 15.9 " 17.6 Mya; given a divergence of 29 Mya from monkeys).[9] Adaptive divergence associated with chromosomal rearrangements led to rapid radiation of the four genera 5-7 Mya.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gibbon
F. There was no global flood. Noah story is a fable.
We have fossils of kangaroos only in Australia or fossils of a particular species of bisons called Bison latifrons only in North America.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bison_latifrons
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kangaroo
https://ncse.com/cej/1/1/fatal-flaws-flood-geology
1. For example, many cave dwelling animals require 100% humidity to survive. Such animals couldnt have lived through months of turmoil on the boat, much less a weeks stay in the desert.
Let's take troglobites:
A troglobite is an animal that exclusively live in caves and has adapted to its dark surroundings. Most troglobites cannot survive outside of the cave environment. Interestingly, while they never leave the cave environments, their lives are dependent on the world outside of the cave. Roots growing from plants above the surface, streams flowing from outside the cave and trogloxenes, and animals that use caves for shelter but travel outside the cave for nourishment are the only things that make life inside of caves possible. Roots allow nutrients to drip into the caves, streams bring in fresh food and dead animals and trogloxenes provide nutrient-rich feces and corpses that feed bacteria, insects and fungi that serve as the base of the caves food chain.
Because caves provide such a stable environment, which means most of these animals can only live in specific parts of their caves and many of them are endangered because they cannot branch out of their territory. Most troglobites survive in caves with humidity levels between 95 to 100 percent, but those that live in tropical areas deal with higher temperatures that result in more evaporation, thus, lower humidity levels. There are currently 7,700 known species of troglobiites.
2. The bible says male and female.
But what about asexual, hermaphrodites and social animal.
- Social animals like ants and termites which need the whole nest to survive.
-Komodo dragons
In Komodos, the process seems to start with eggs that are like any other, with half the number of required chromosomes. But at some point in the development process, the chromosome count doubles back up and a Komodo embryo results. Only males can result from this process. Thats because in Komodo dragons, females are the ones that have two different sex chromosomes"in this case a Z and a W. Males are ZZ. When the chromosomes in an egg divide and then multiply themselves by two, they can thus produce only a non-viable WW or a viable ZZ"a male. The implication"and perhaps the very reason for this arrangement"is that it would allow a female Komodo to swim to an isolated island and produce her own sexually reproducing population, using her sons as mates once they reached maturity. Nobody said nature was always pretty.
-Parasitic Wasps
Solo reproduction gets stranger in the insect world. Among certain wasp species, fertilized eggs develop into female offspring with the regular number of chromosomes. Unfertilized ones develop into males with only half. But if the female wasp is infected with the Wolbachia bacteria, a different kind of immaculate conception results. Instead of splitting to yield eggs with half the normal number of chromosomes, these wasp eggs forgo division and keep their normal chromosomal number. They then develop into females that are clones of their mothers. The females that result, though, are unable to reproduce sexually. And soon, the entire female population is made up of infected wasps with no possibility of producing offspring that can escape the infection. The bacterium plays the long game, but eventually wins.
- Snails
Most snails are hermaphrodites. The only exceptions include certain freshwater and marine species, such as apple snails and periwinkle snails. In addition to hermaphroditism, snails are also early bloomers; they are sexually mature by the time they reach a year old. The giant African land snail, Achatina fulica, is the largest species of snail on earth and is capable of laying up to 500 eggs at once. As hermaphrodites, they primarily mate with partners, but are also capable of self-fertilization in rare instances.
-Echinoderms
Echinoderms are marine invertebrates. They include sea stars, sea cucumbers, sea urchins and sand dollars. Some of the most well known echinoderms are also hermaphrodites. Certain species of sea star, like the common cushion star (Asterina gibbosa), are sequential hermaphrodites -- changing gender from male to female. A cushion sea star spends its first three years as a male and the next three as a female. While sea cucumbers -- elongated, squishy echinoderms -- and sea urchins are usually divided into separate, distinct sexes, hermaphrodites can exist throughout different species.
Worms
Another class of invertebrates, worms, adds to the proliferation of hermaphroditism. Some worms can fertilize themselves, but for the most part worms need a mate to reproduce. Consider the earthworms mating ritual. During fertilization, earthworms join together with their heads facing opposite directions and pass sperm and eggs between themselves into a joined cocoon. Their reproductive process can occur either above or below the soil when an earthworm emits a pheromone that signals its ready to reproduce.
5.For numerous communicable diseases, the only known reservoir is man. That is, the germs or viruses which cause these diseases can survive only in living human bodies or well-equipped laboratories. Well-known examples include measles, pneumococcal pneumonia, leprosy, typhus, typhoid fever, small pox, poliomyelitis, syphilis and gonorrhea. You say these diseases were created by Satan. But still somebody must have carried them onto Noah's Ark. Note that the argument covers every disease germ or virus which can survive only in a specific host. But even if the Ark was a floating pesthouse, few of these diseases could have survived. In most cases, only two animals of each kind are supposed to have been on the Ark. Suppose the male of such a pair came down with such a disease shortly after the Ark embarked. He recovered, but passed the disease to his mate. She recovered, too, but had no other animal to pass the disease to, for the male was now immune. Every disease for which this cycle lasts less than a year should therefore have become extinct!
6. Marine Fossils
The continents are, on average, covered with sedimentary rock to a depth of about one mile. Some of the rock (chalk, for instance) is essentially 100% fossils and many limestones also contain high percentages of marine fossils. On the other hand, some rock is barren. Suppose that, on average, marine fossils comprise .1% of the volume of the rock. If all of the fossilized marine animals could be resurrected, they would cover the entire planet to a depth of at least 1.5 feet. What did they eat?
Creationists can't appeal to the tropical paradise they imagine existed below the pre- Flood canopy because the laws of thermodynamics prohibit the earth from supporting that much animal biomass. The first law says that energy can't be created, so the animals would have to get their energy from the sun. The second law limits the efficiency with which solar energy can be converted to food. The amount of solar energy available is not nearly sufficient.
7. Fossils and Animals
Scientific creationists interpret the fossils found in the earth's rocks as the remains of animals which perished in the Noachian Deluge. Ironically, they often cite the sheer number of fossils in fossil graveyards as evidence for the Flood. In particular, creationists seem enamored of the Karroo Formation in Africa, which is estimated to contain the remains of 800 billion vertebrate animals (see Whitcomb and Morris, p. 160; Gish, p. 61). As pseudo-scientists, creationists dare not test this major hypothesis that all of the fossilized animals died in the Flood.
Robert E. Sloan, a paleontologist at the University of Minnesota, has studied the Karroo Formation. Told that the animals fossilized there range from the size of a small lizard to the size of a cow, with the average animal perhaps the size of a fox. A minute's work with a calculator shows that, if the 800 billion animals in the Karroo Formation could be resurrected, there would be 21 of them for every acre of land on earth. Suppose we assume (conservatively, I think) that the Karroo Formation contains 1% of the vertebrate fossils on earth. Then when the Flood began there must have been at least 2100 living animals per acre, ranging from tiny shrews to immense dinosaurs. To a non-creationist mind, that seems a bit crowded.
8. Fire in the fossil record
Flood Geology has a habit of not making testable predictions, as it's advocates prefer to interpret data assuming their framework is true, rather than test the framework. However, if nothing else, it does make one clear prediction. If the Geologic record was laid down by water, then there's one thing we should not find any clear evidence of: Fire.
Do we find evidence of Fire in the fossil record? Tons of it. Loads of it. It's abundant in many sediments from as early as the Devonian (1.), and it comes in the form of a simple little fossil known as Fusain. Fusain is fossilized charcoal, and in nature, charcoal is formed by forest fires (2.). Now, a YEC might protest the identification of Fusain as charcoal. Perhaps, they would suggest, it isn't charcoal but something else. Unfortunately for them, there's simply too much evidence supporting the conclusion that Fusain is charcoal.
For one, studies have shown that charcoal produced by natural fires resembles fossil fusain both in physical size and shape and in optical reflectance. (3.) As Jones et al., noted in their comparisons of modern charcoal to fusain:
The most convincing evidence of pyrolysis hitherto recognised is the apparent homogenization of xylem cell walls, as seen under SEM. Work on charcoal from both wildfires and laboratory wood charring under controlled conditions confirms the homogenization as seen under both SEM and TEM. Controlled temperature experiments show that a further rise in temperature causes the cell walls, initially homogenized, to crack and separate along the site of the middle lamella, giving the charcoal a characteristic fibrous texture. Both of these distinctive phases of response to pyrolysis can be observed in fossil charcoals.
Also, the cells crack and separate along the middle lamella, which is what gives charcoal it's characteristic texture. Both of these features are found in charcoal formed by wildfires, and are diagnostic of burning. They are not formed by any water-related process.
So, since we find these features in Fusain, we can know that it is indeed fossilized charcoal. And, given it's so widespread, we know that fire has a long history in the Geologic record (1.). With fire so widespread throughout the sedimentary rock record, we have an immediate challenge to anyone advocating the rock record was laid down by water in a single year at the same time.
So, is there any way a global flood could account for such widespread evidence of fire in something of at least 70% of what they consider flood deposits? The only scenario I could even conceive of is to claim that the majority of their presupposed pre-flood "floating forests" were, for the most part, completely alight up until their burial. However, this is not feasible. The problems with this suggestion are numerous:
8.1. The wood needs to be dry in order to spark naturally from lightning. Wood found in these floating forests would have been light and saturated due to the wet environment that would be typical of marshy floating forests. Anyone who knows how wildfires work knows that if you have a long season period of rain, widfires are highly unlikely to start. Further compounding this problem is that, during the Flood, there were constant torrential rains up until day 40 (or 150, depends on what YEC you ask). Normal thunderstorms usually won't quench a full blown forest fire, but a string of strong thunderstorms or a monsoon are capable of putting out wildfires. A Flood with rains of dare I say "biblical" proportions would not allow fires to even start. All the wood available would be waterlogged. Nothing would ignite, period.
8.2. There's no plausible way to ignite anything. Lightning from the storms would not ignite wood that is absolutely drenched and being hit with torrential rain. Perhaps they'd try and say that, before everything was covered by water, chaotic volcanic activity was spewing lava, and that could ignite the forests. While this may have a better chance of igniting soaked wood than lightning, there's no reason to think there was extensive volcanism during the Flood. The fact there's no mention of it in scripture aside, the copious amounts of CO2 Sulfuirc acid produced by such volcanism would have killed Noah et al.,(5.) If we require that innumerable eruptions and chaotic volcanism took place during the Flood year"these volcanic flows would have poisoned the oceans with heavy metals and saturated the atmosphere with carbon dioxide and sulfur gases. The sheer amount of carbon dioxide would have driven the oceans toward acidic conditions too vile for any surface life. If you want Noah to survive, as the Bible says, then there was no chaotic volcanism. So, lightning is too weak to start such fires and you can't have huge volcanism during the flood if you want any survivors at all, or a habitable world after the flood. Really, there is no possible way to start massive fires in a word wide deluge, period.
8.3. As YEC Andrew Snelling has said (4.):
It appears that lush vegetation might have covered up to 75 percent of the pre-Flood world, including floating forests fringing the land. The Flood waters rose and swept over the land, catastrophically destroying and burying all the vegetation in beds between other fossil-bearing sediments.
The waters of the flood would have buried these floating forests not long after the onset of the Flood, probably within the first 40 days of rain and rising water. This is needed in the Flood model to account for all the coal seams we see in the rock record. But since that is required to make coal, then there isn't enough wood available on the surface to burn and make all the fusain we see in the rock record.
There's no way to explain the extensive amounts of charcoal in the Flood Geology model. The chances of widespread fire starting and staying alight are slim to none. The fact that we see extensive evidence of widespread forest fires throughout nearly all the Geologic record from the Devonian up, we can be certain that the rock record was not formed in any worldwide watery catastrophe. Forest fires are not compatible with torrential rains, waves, currents, and rapid burial of floating forests in a worldwide flood. Flood Geology has quite literally gone up in flames.
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/ar ... 8200001929
https://www.nsf.gov/news/news_summ.jsp?cntn_id=127577
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/ar ... 628990061X http://www.oldearth.org/morton/co2.htm
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-noahs-ark.html
https://ncse.com/cej/4/1/impossible-voyage-noahs-ark
https://ncse.com/cej/1/1/fatal-flaws-flood-geology
http://skepdic.com/noahsark.html
http://www.biblicalnonsense.com/chapter6.html
G. Other fables written by illiterate goat herders back in the Bronze Age:
-Jonah being eaten by a big fish and survives 3 days.
-The exodus of millions of enslaved Israelites and the plaques of Egypt.
-Lots Wife Becoming Salt
-Lazarus Being Raised from the Dead
-Samsons Magic Hair
-Jacob and the case of the magical genetics
-Holy Ghost impregnated a woman, who then gave birth to a man-god(Jesus) who got killed, was brought back to life by an anthropomorphic omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient, perfectly good creator God that has free will (Yahweh).
H. We have in the bible mythical creatures like dragons, giants, leviathan.
We dont seem to see find such creatures alive today or in the fossil record.
/////////Leviathan
Psalm 104:26
There the ships move along, And Leviathan, which You have formed to sport in it.
Job 41:1-34
"Can you draw out Leviathan with a fishhook? Or press down his tongue with a cord? "Can you put a rope in his nose Or pierce his jaw with a hook? "Will he make many supplications to you, Or will he speak to you soft words?
Psalm 74:14
You crushed the heads of Leviathan; You gave him as food for the creatures of the wilderness.
Isaiah 27:1
In that day the LORD will punish Leviathan the fleeing serpent, With His fierce and great and mighty sword, Even Leviathan the twisted serpent; And He will kill the dragon who lives in the sea.
Job 3:8
"Let those curse it who curse the day, Who are prepared to rouse Leviathan.
/////////Dragons
"Smoke went up from his nostrils, and devouring fire from his mouth; glowing coals flamed forth from him."
(Psalm 18:8)
"Awake, awake, put on strength, O arm of the Lord; awake, as in days of old, the generations of long ago. Was it not you who cut Rahab in pieces, who pierced the dragon"
(Isaiah 51:9)
"His breath kindles coals, and a flame comes forth from his mouth."
(Job 41:21)
"In that day the Lord with his hard and great and strong sword will punish Leviathan the fleeing serpent, Leviathan the twisting serpent, and he will slay the dragon
that is in the sea."(Isaiah 27:1)
//////////Giants
"Yet it was I who destroyed the Amorite before them, whose height was like the height of the cedars, and he was as strong as the oaks; yet I destroyed his fruit
above and his roots beneath. Also it was I who brought you up from the land of Egypt, and led you forty years through the wilderness, to possess the land of the Amorite"
(Amos 2:9"10).
"10 (The Emites used to live there"a people strong and numerous, and as tall as the Anakites. 11 Like the Anakites, they too were considered Rephaites,
but the Moabites called them Emites."(Deuteronomy 2:10-11)
"20 (That too was considered a land of the Rephaites, who used to live there; but the Ammonites called them Zamzummites. 21 They were a people strong and numerous,
and as tall as the Anakites. The Lord destroyed them from before the Ammonites, who drove them out and settled in their place."
(Deuteronomy 2:20-21)
"11 (Og king of Bashan was the last of the Rephaites. His bed was decorated with iron and was more than nine cubits long and four cubits wide.
[a] It is still in Rabbah of the Ammonites.)"
(Deuteronomy 3:11-13)
"4 The Nephilim were on the earth in those days"and also afterward"when the sons of God went to the daughters of humans and had children by them. They were
the heroes of old, men of renown."(Genesis 6:4)
I. We have in the bible examples of talking animals: donkey and snake.
The donkey said to Balaam, "Am I not your own donkey, which you have always ridden, to this day? Have I been in the habit of doing this to you?" "No," he said. (Numbers 22:30)
"Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the LORD God had made. He said to the woman, "Did God really say, 'You must not eat from any tree in the garden'?""(Genesis 3:1)
H. Bible is a moral book written with inspiration from a perfectly good God.
Nonsense. The bible is far from being a moral book.
1. Kill Witches
You should not let a sorceress live.(Exodus 22:17 NAB)
2. Kill Homosexuals
If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives. (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)
3. Kill Fortunetellers
A man or a woman who acts as a medium or fortuneteller shall be put to death by stoning; they have no one but themselves to blame for their death. (Leviticus 20:27 NAB)
4. Death for Adultery
If a man commits adultery with another mans wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death. (Leviticus 20:10 NLT)
5. Death for Fornication
A priests daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death. (Leviticus 21:9 NAB)
6. Kill Anyone who Approaches the Tabernacle
For the LORD had said to Moses, Exempt the tribe of Levi from the census; do not include them when you count the rest of the Israelites. You must put the Levites in charge of the Tabernacle of the Covenant, along with its furnishings and equipment. They must carry the Tabernacle and its equipment as you travel, and they must care for it and camp around it. Whenever the Tabernacle is moved, the Levites will take it down and set it up again. Anyone else who goes too near the Tabernacle will be executed.(Numbers 1:48-51 NLT)
7. Kill People for Working on the Sabbath
The LORD then gave these further instructions to Moses: Tell the people of Israel to keep my Sabbath day, for the Sabbath is a sign of the covenant between me and you forever. It helps you to remember that I am the LORD, who makes you holy. Yes, keep the Sabbath day, for it is holy. Anyone who desecrates it must die; anyone who works on that day will be cut off from the community. Work six days only, but the seventh day must be a day of total rest. I repeat: Because the LORD considers it a holy day, anyone who works on the Sabbath must be put to death.(Exodus 31:12-15 NLT)
9. Killed by a Lion
Meanwhile, the LORD instructed one of the group of prophets to say to another man, Strike me! But the man refused to strike the prophet. Then the prophet told him, Because you have not obeyed the voice of the LORD, a lion will kill you as soon as you leave me. And sure enough, when he had gone, a lion attacked and killed him.(1 Kings 20:35-36 NLT)
10. Kill Sons of Sinners
Make ready to slaughter his sons for the guilt of their fathers; Lest they rise and posses the earth, and fill the breadth of the world with tyrants.(Isaiah 14:21 NAB)
11. Mass Murder
This is what the Lord of hosts has to say: I will punish what Amalek did to Israel when he barred his way as he was coming up from Egypt. Go, now, attack Amalek, and deal with him and all that he has under the ban. Do not spare him, but kill men and women, children and infants, oxen and sheep, camels and asses. (1 Samuel 15:2-3 NAB)
12. More Rape and Baby Killing
Anyone who is captured will be run through with a sword. Their little children will be dashed to death right before their eyes. Their homes will be sacked and their wives raped by the attacking hordes. For I will stir up the Medes against Babylon, and no amount of silver or gold will buy them off. The attacking armies will shoot down the young people with arrows. They will have no mercy on helpless babies and will show no compassion for the children.(Isaiah 13:15-18 NLT)
13. God Kills an Extended Family
You have done more evil than all who lived before you. You have made other gods and have made me furious with your gold calves. And since you have turned your back on me, I will bring disaster on your dynasty and kill all your sons, slave or free alike. I will burn up your royal dynasty as one burns up trash until it is all gone. I, the LORD, vow that the members of your family who die in the city will be eaten by dogs, and those who die in the field will be eaten by vultures.' Then Ahijah said to Jeroboams wife, Go on home, and when you enter the city, the child will die. All Israel will mourn for him and bury him. He is the only member of your family who will have a proper burial, for this child is the only good thing that the LORD, the God of Israel, sees in the entire family of Jeroboam. And the LORD will raise up a king over Israel who will destroy the family of Jeroboam. This will happen today, even now! Then the LORD will shake Israel like a reed whipped about in a stream. He will uproot the people of Israel from this good land that he gave their ancestors and will scatter them beyond the Euphrates River, for they have angered the LORD by worshiping Asherah poles. He will abandon Israel because Jeroboam sinned and made all of Israel sin along with him. (1 Kings 14:9-16 NLT)
14. God Promises More Killing
I will make Mount Seir utterly desolate, killing off all who try to escape and any who return. I will fill your mountains with the dead. Your hills, your valleys, and your streams will be filled with people slaughtered by the sword. I will make you desolate forever. Your cities will never be rebuilt. Then you will know that I am the LORD.(Ezekiel 35:7-9 NLT)
How the Hebrew slaves are to be treated
If you buy a Hebrew slave, he is to serve for only six years. Set him free in the seventh year, and he will owe you nothing for his freedom. If he was single when he became your slave and then married afterward, only he will go free in the seventh year. But if he was married before he became a slave, then his wife will be freed with him. If his master gave him a wife while he was a slave, and they had sons or daughters, then the man will be free in the seventh year, but his wife and children will still belong to his master. But the slave may plainly declare, I love my master, my wife, and my children. I would rather not go free. If he does this, his master must present him before God. Then his master must take him to the door and publicly pierce his ear with an awl. After that, the slave will belong to his master forever. (Exodus 21:2-6 NLT)
15. Sex slave
When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girls owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment.(Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)
16. Beating your slave to death
When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property. (Exodus 21:20-21 NAB)
17. Slaves as property
However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)
18. Murder, rape and pillage of the Midianites
They attacked Midian just as the LORD had commanded Moses, and they killed all the men. All five of the Midianite kings " Evi, Rekem, Zur, Hur, and Reba " died in the battle. They also killed Balaam son of Beor with the sword. Then the Israelite army captured the Midianite women and children and seized their cattle and flocks and all their wealth as plunder. They burned all the towns and villages where the Midianites had lived. After they had gathered the plunder and captives, both people and animals, they brought them all to Moses and Eleazar the priest, and to the whole community of Israel, which was camped on the plains of Moab beside the Jordan River, across from Jericho.
Moses, Eleazar the priest, and all the leaders of the people went to meet them outside the camp. But Moses was furious with all the military commanders who had returned from the battle. Why have you let all the women live? he demanded. These are the very ones who followed Balaams advice and caused the people of Israel to rebel against the LORD at Mount Peor. They are the ones who caused the plague to strike the LORDs people. Now kill all the boys and all the women who have slept with a man. Only the young girls who are virgins may live; you may keep them for yourselves. (Numbers 31:7-18 NLT)
19. More Murder Rape and Pillage
As you approach a town to attack it, first offer its people terms for peace. If they accept your terms and open the gates to you, then all the people inside will serve you in forced labor. But if they refuse to make peace and prepare to fight, you must attack the town. When the LORD your God hands it over to you, kill every man in the town. But you may keep for yourselves all the women, children, livestock, and other plunder. You may enjoy the spoils of your enemies that the LORD your God has given you.(Deuteronomy 20:10-14)
20. Laws of Rape
If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father. Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her. (Deuteronomy 22:28-29 NAB)
21. Death to the Rape Victim
If within the city a man comes upon a maiden who is betrothed, and has relations with her, you shall bring them both out of the gate of the city and there stone them to death: the girl because she did not cry out for help though she was in the city, and the man because he violated his neighbors wife. (Deuteronomy 22:23-24 NAB)
22. Rape of Female Captives
When you go out to war against your enemies and the LORD, your God, delivers them into your hand, so that you take captives, if you see a comely woman among the captives and become so enamored of her that you wish to have her as wife, you may take her home to your house. But before she may live there, she must shave her head and pare her nails and lay aside her captives garb. After she has mourned her father and mother for a full month, you may have relations with her, and you shall be her husband and she shall be your wife. However, if later on you lose your liking for her, you shall give her freedom, if she wishes it; but you shall not sell her or enslave her, since she was married to you under compulsion. (Deuteronomy 21:10-14 NAB)
J. The so perfectly good, omniscient, omnipotent, infinitely wise and merciful God punishes some of his creatures with everlasting torment in the Lake of Fire for sins committed in a finite life.
Yeah right. And this is supposed to make sense.
14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. (Revelation 20:14)
9 Whenever the living creatures give glory, honor and thanks to him who sits on the throne and who lives for ever and ever. (Revelation 4:9)
7 Then one of the four living creatures gave to the seven angels seven golden bowls filled
"1- Those, who have been hurt, offended or disappointed in church, and the so called people of God.
2- Those, who could not resist or break free from their families pressure; they gave in, following the non-belief ideology, which was imposed on them.
3- The third is a smart bunch, want to make a "splash" or make money challenging the big guy God. This way they would look bigger and smarter to impress, or to make speeches and write books to gain fame and make money. "
What a bunch of nonsense.
I do not belong to none of this groups.
I went to church with my family till the age of 16. I stopped believing when i become very interested in science, biology, cosmology; become more educated and less ignorant.
1. I was never offended by Christians when i was in church. They were all nice people. It was a nice experience all in all.
2. My family are all Christians (Penticostals) so the pressure was to remain Christian not the opposite.
3. I don't wanna be famous or make money or to impress with my intelligence. It irritates me greatly when i see the world full of people that suffer/had suffered/will suffer greatly because of ignorance, stupidity, superstitious nonsense.
I can't believe nonsense because my logic, common sense, reason stops me to do so.
Here some reasons why i don't believe:
A. The logical and evidential problem of evil.
Mostly natural evil that affect beings that are not rational like small children, animals, mentally impaired people.
http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/evil/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Problem_of_evil
B. The problem of divine hiddenness
http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/divine-hiddenness/
Christian say that their god Yahweh is a personal god the gets involved in his creation and interacts with people.
But there is not one piece of evidence of his involvement and interaction. Not one single evidence. Zero.
Not one single so called "miracle" or "supernatural event" has been proven true.
Not one "miracle healing" has been proven true.
(we only see claims of miracle healing for diseases and illnesses that can go away on their own. We don't see amputees with their limbs grown back, no one cured of MS, Down syndrome, fragile X syndrome, Congenital hypothyroidism, Prader"Willi syndrome, 22q13 deletion syndrome, Huntington's disease, Acute intermittent porphyria, and so one; seems convenient).
C. Christians base their belief on logical fallacies and logical impossibilities:
1.The equivocation in the The Ontological Argument for God is a logical fallacy.
http://skeptico.blogs.com/skeptico/2009 ... uttal.html
2.The problem with The Kalam Argument for God.
http://www.strongatheism.net/library/co ... d_premise/
3.The so called evidence like personal experience; some books: Bible, Torah, Qu'ran, Vedas, Teachings of Buddha, Analects of Confucius; people changing and becoming good because of these book; testimonies based on personal experiences; can't be considered compelling evidence when proving God exists; because humans mind is a fickle thing: people can have false memories; can have visual, auditory, olfactive hallucinations; can be mentally ill; are gullible, naive, impressionable, trusting, deceivable, easily led; most of them are ignorant, most of them are with average/below intelligence(73%).
Anecdotal fallacy " using a personal experience or an isolated example instead of sound reasoning or compelling evidence.
4.The argument from incredulity is a logical fallacy that occurs when someone decides that something did not happen, because they cannot personally understand how it could happen.
The fallacy is an argument from ignorance and an informal fallacy.(God of the gaps)
5.Fallacy of the single cause (causal oversimplification) " it is assumed that there is one, simple cause of an outcome when in reality it may have been caused by a number of only jointly sufficient causes. (God as a single cause for creation of the universe and life)
6.Christians create a more complex but equally fallacious type of circular reasoning ; a circular chain of reasoning like this one: "God exists." "How do you know that God exists?" "The Bible says so." "Why should I believe the Bible?" "Because it's the inspired word of God."
7. God is not omnipotent and omniscient. God is Limited
7.1.Logical Limitations: An Omnipotent God is Impossible
- Irrational and illogical actions such as creating a "round square" or making 2+2=5 or if given the axioms of Riemannian geometry, creating a triangle whose angles do not add up to 180 degrees, appear to be impossible even for an all-powerful God.
- Self-limiting actions such as making itself non-existent, or, removing its own power of omnipotency, are often said to be impossible for an all-powerful being. If it chose to make itself unable to do a particular action then it would be a simple gesture for this being to re-instate its power. For example, if the all-powerful God knows that in the year 2050 it will cause an Earthquake, but, in the year 2040 it removes its own power to cause natural disasters, it can of course do two things, (1) use its omnipotency to give itself the power again, or (2) in 2030 to jump ahead in time and do it before it removed its own ability. Also if such a being decides "I shall for all time not have the ability to do something", then, it can only do that action if it does have the ability to do it. This self-negation causes an impossible time-continuum contradiction. It thusly seems impossible for it to stop itself from performing any action.
- God Cannot be Responsible for Creating Logic Itself:
In order to create, to think, God's thoughts must be more than random. To create the universe and its laws, God must be able to think logically. If it can't think logically, then, the laws of the universe were simply random, and the Universe might as well been self-created in an atheistic manner. In other words, for God to exist, God's thoughts must have always been ordered in a logical manner otherwise God could never have created order from chaos.
This means that logic is a precursor to God. Logic, with its simple relations and rules that lets thought itself be ordered, must have existed independently of God's creative power. God could not have created the logic because requires logical thoughts to do any meaningful creating.
7.2.God Cannot Lie
Psalm 119:89, Hebrews 6:18, Titus 1:2, 2 Timothy 2:13
7.3.God Can't Be Tempted
James 1:13: I.e., God has no free will to act evilly.
7.4.The Cruci-fiction Facade
If God required Jesus and the sacrifice of Jesus in order to forgive sin and the like(defeat death or other nonsense), then God is not omnipotent. If God is omnipotent, then, it did not need the crucifixion for any purpose at all.
7.5.Can God Defeat Iron Chariots?
Judges 4:13-16: Sisera gathered nine hundred chariots, but the LORD defeated them for Deborah and Barak, whose 10,000 men then killed all of Sisera's men.
Judges 1:19: "And the LORD was with Judah; and he drave out the inhabitants of the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron."
7.6.God Is Not Omniscient
7.7.There Are Times in the Bible When God Doesnt Know All, and Tests People to Find Things Out
The Bible says God is perfect in knowledge, knows all thoughts, all secrets, sees all and no-one can hide from God. See: 1 Samuel 2:3, Job 28:24; 37:16; 42:2, Psalm 44:21; 139:4,7-8; 147:5, Proverbs 15:3, Jeremiah 16:17, 23:24, Acts 1:24, Hebrews 4:13, Matthew 10:30 and 1 John 3:19-20. Yet there are times when God doesnt know things, such as where people are. Check these verses:
Genesis 3:8-13 " Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the Lord, amongst the trees of the garden, and God had to go find them, and then asks them questions.
Genesis 11:4 -9 " Tower of Babel;: God comes down to see what the people are up to.
Genesis 6:6 " And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart. An omniscient LORD would have no reason to repent for he would have known in advance how his creations would turn out.
Genesis 18:20-21 " Then the LORD said, The outcry against Sodom and Gomorrah is so great and their sin so grievous 21 that I will go down and see if what they have done is as bad as the outcry that has reached me. If not, I will know.
Genesis 32:22-30 " In this obscure story, Jacob wrestles with God in bodily form and sees God face-to-face. God asks Jacob what Jacobs name is; yet an all-knowing god would know
Numbers 22:9 " Balaam and some Moabite officials spend a night waiting for God, who duly pops down for a visit, And God came unto Balaam, and said, What men are these with thee? An all-knowing God would have known.
Job 1:7, 2:2 " And the Lord said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the Lord, and said, from going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.
Hosea 8:4 " Some princes of Israel were set up without Gods knowledge.
7.8 Sometimes, it is said in the Bible that God tests people.
In Deuteronomy 8:1-2 God reveals that the 40-years in the wilderness was a test done by God to find out what was in peoples hearts " whether they would still obey orders.
In Deuteronomy 13:1-5 God sends some false prophets and wonder-workers as tests to see if people will follow other gods, and in 2 Chronicles 32:31 God is doing similar fact-finding tests.
Yet an all-knowing God, creator of all time, knows exactly who will pass any tests, and knows exactly what is in everyones heart. So either God is lying about his reasons, or, god is not actually all-knowing. See: God Never Needs to Test Us by Vexen Crabtree (2005).
7.9.Tower of Babel Story Proves Once More That God is Not Omniscient
Genesis
11:4 And they said, Go to, let us build us a city and a tower, whose top may reach unto heaven; and let us make us a name, lest we be scattered abroad upon the face of the whole earth.
11:5 And the LORD came down to see the city and the tower, which the children of men builded.
11:6 And the LORD said, Behold, the people is one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do. Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one anothers speech.
11:8 So the LORD scattered them abroad from thence upon the face of all the earth: and they left off to build the city.
11:9 Therefore is the name of it called Babel; because the LORD did there confound the language of all the earth: and from thence did the LORD scatter them abroad upon the face of all the earth.
This passage demonstrates two instances of the Bibles errors
1. The supposedly omniscient God did not know humans were incapable of building a tower whose top may reach unto heaven.
2. The supposedly omniscient God did not KNOW that there were already multiple languages.
By these were the isles of the Gentiles divided in their lands; every one after his tongue, after their families, in their nations. Genesis 10:5
God must have forgotten about this verse.
According to the above verses, God believed that these people could actually build a tower whose top may reach unto heaven.
In science, before a hypothesis can be accepted as true, it must be falsifiable. That is, there must be something, which, if found, would prove the hypothesis to be false. The hypothesis that God is omniscient is falsified with this passage. God did not know that humans were unable to reach heaven no matter how tall a tower they built.
In addition, this passage contains another example of Gods lack of knowledge.
And the LORD came down to see the city and the tower
If God were omniscient, he wouldnt have to come down to see . He would know, without having to come down, what the people were doing and what their intentions were.
Multiple Language " Internal Inconsistency and Erroneous History
In this chapter we learn that languages were created and people dispersed during the time of Babel.
11:9 Therefore is the name of it called Babel; because the LORD did there confound the language of all the earth: and from thence did the LORD scatter them abroad upon the face of all the earth.
But just one chapter earlier, we are told that Noahs sons actually divided the people into their nations along with creating their own tongues.
Genesis 10:5 By these were the isles of the Gentiles divided in their lands; every one after his tongue, after their families, in their nations.
Linguistics is the scientific study of how languages develop. No linguist believes that different languages originated with the dispersion of Noahs sons or the dispersion of the peoples of Babel. Both stories are fables.
8. An omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient, perfectly good creator that has free will is logically impossible.
-An omniscient being cannot have free will because it is predestined by its own knowledge of its future actions.
-A perfectly benevolent, good God cannot have free will because there is only one perfect course of action, which God, being perfectly good, must follow.
-If God created free will then it cannot itself already have had free will before it done so: yet, an omniscient being already knew (before it created free will) everything it would do. Therefore any creator-god cannot have free will about any of its actions.
-If a being is all-knowing, then, it knows exactly what actions it itself will make at any point in history. This removes the ability of the God to actually change its mind, alter the grand plan, or in other words, to exercise free will in any way, as the all-powerful and all-knowing being is guided purely by a deterministic fate based on infallible knowledge of its own future actions. An all-knowing and all-powerful being cannot be a moral being and is probably an unconscious automaton (ergo, not divine). -Out of the possible options in a situation God always makes the best choice because it is perfectly benevolent. It cannot do something that is less moral or "good" than something else, because that would not be perfectly good, but merely second-best good. In every situation, God only has one choice: The most moral/good one. God does not have free will. It can make no choices, there are no possibilities for an omniscient-benevolent God to choose from. In order to give God its free will, we would have to take away its omniscience - its all-knowing nature - or take away its benevolence.
-Christians may say God could potentially choose between two equally perfect acts. This is more interesting if you hold that everything God does is perfect by causal definition. But the argument destroys itself: If God chooses one act rather than another, then the act that God chooses must be the better act in order for God to have chosen it. Either that, or God behaves randomly (which is not free will). When God acts, it does so perfectly... so there are therefore no "choices" to be made: Whatever choices God makes are the best ones (even between two apparently perfect options), and therefore a perfect God cannot possibly have any genuine free will.
A perfectly good, omniscient God with free will is impossible.
-A being with no free will cannot be morally good as it makes no moral choices; it can only be morally neutral like a robot.
-It seems that morality and perfectly, omniscient God are contradictory.
God cannot be the author of morality nor can it itself be moral.
-If something is perfect, it is complete--it needs nothing else. We humans engage in activities because we are pursuing that elusive perfection, because there is disequilibrium caused by a difference between what we are and what we want to be. If God is perfect, there can be no disequilibrium. There is nothing he needs, nothing he desires, and nothing he must or will do. A God who is perfect does nothing except exist.
P1. An omniscient God knows creating creatures with free will lead to evil, chaos, entropy, disorder, disequilibrium.
P2. God is perfect, is self-sustaining, with no needs, perfect order therefore he would not do something that would lead to disequilibrium and disturbed the perfect state, therefore he would not create anything and would not do anything, therefore he would only exist.
C: A perfect, omniscient, omnipotent creator God is impossible.
9. An omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient, perfectly good God that is anthropomorphic(experience emotions like anger, jealousy, regret, and so one) is logically impossible.
A God who knows everything cannot have emotions. The Bible says that God experiences all of the emotions of humans, including anger, sadness, jealousy and happiness. We humans experience emotions as a result of new knowledge. A man who had formerly been ignorant of his wifes infidelity will experience the emotions of anger and sadness only after he has learned what had previously been hidden. In contrast, the omniscient God is ignorant of nothing. Nothing is hidden from him, nothing new may be revealed to him, so there is no gained knowledge to which he may emotively react.
We humans experience anger and frustration when something is wrong which we cannot fix. The perfect, omnipotent God, however, can fix anything. Humans experience longing for things we lack. The perfect God lacks nothing.
An omniscient, omnipotent, and perfect God who experiences emotion is impossible.
14 Do not worship any other god, for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God. (Exodus 34:14)
15 for the LORD your God, who is among you, is a jealous God and his anger will burn against you, and he will destroy you from the face of the land.(Deuteronomy 6:15)
16 They made him jealous with their foreign gods and angered him with their detestable idols. (Deuteronomy 32:16)
19 Joshua said to the people, You are not able to serve the LORD. He is a holy God; he is a jealous God. He will not forgive your rebellion and your sins. (Joshua 24:19)
5 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, (Exodus 20:5)
"Even at Horeb you provoked the LORD to wrath, and the LORD was so angry with you that He would have destroyed you. (Deuteronomy 9:8)
"So the LORD'S anger burned against Israel, and He made them wander in the wilderness forty years, until the entire generation of those who had done evil in the sight of the LORD was destroyed. (Numbers 32:13)
A God who knows everything cannot have regret or be surprised.
Let's look at this line from Genesis 6:5-6 :
"And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart."
Wait a minute. God saw the wickedness of man and was sorrowful and regretted creating humans and this earth.
"13And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth."
These are two interesting lines here. Why would an omniscient being actually be surprised and depressed about a situation that he knew was going to come to pass? People, forget about the initial creation of man. From the moment the Christian god chose to create mankind, he knew our past, present and future. In actuality, these concepts of linear time would not have meant anything to the Christian god. He would know just know everything about us. So god knew that the Nephlim were coming to earth. God knew that man would become wicked (because of original sin that was brought about by a situation that he created himself. But that is another thing altogether.) Why would he feel sorry and regret making us. If god is indeed capable of feeling regret, wouldn't he have felt that from the simple knowledge of humanities existence. Then why create us? It seem that the biblical god is actually surprised that man is so wicked.
But what exactly is regret? How do we define it in today's society. "According to Landman's research (1993),
"Regret is a more or less painful cognitive and emotional state of feeling sorry for misfortunes, limitations, losses, transgressions, shortcomings, or mistakes. It is an experience of felt-reason or reasoned-emotion. The regretted matters may be sins of commission as well as sins of omission; they may range from the voluntary to the uncontrollable and accidental; they may be actually executed deeds or entirely mental ones committed by oneself or by another person or group; they may be moral or legal transgressions or morally and legally neutral. . . ."(p. 36)
Now notice here that regret is used in the context of a person feeling regret for their actions or inaction's. The consequences that follow and the things that one cannot control at times, i.e. losses and limitations. Which one of these categories does the Christian God fall into?
P1. An omniscient God knows very action any human does long before that human exists, long before the universe exists, therefore he would not get angry or be surprised, have regrets because of what humans do.
P2. God is perfect, is self-sustaining, with no needs, perfect order therefore he would not do something that would lead to disequilibrium and disturbed the perfect state (get angry, get jealous, have regrets, be passionate about something).
C: A omnipotent, omniscient, perfect creator God is impossible.
D. 1. Many Christians believe God created Adam and Eve 6000 years ago.
But ignore all the fossils of homo sapiens found that are older then tens of thousands of years old, all the ancients sites that are older then 9000 years old, all the caves painting that are tens of thousands of years old.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hofmeyr_Skull
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chauvet_Cave
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ussher_chronology
http://www.hebroots.com/lul7_8.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gbekli_Tepe
2. Other Christians believe God chose some modern humans hundreds of thousands of years ago to communicate with them because they were the most intelligent animals with the biggest brain.
But Neanderthals have bigger brain and skulls then modern humans. They lived at the same time tens of thousands of years ago. Research suggests they fashioned tools, buried their dead, maybe cared for the sick and even conversed. They might even inbreeded with the modern humans.
http://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-n ... 03/?no-ist
https://www.theguardian.com/science/201 ... scientists
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/science ... -good.html
E. Christians believe that after Adam sin the world become corrupted(natural evils-diseases, natural disasters, struggle of life, animals becoming carnivors and so one).
There was no corruption of the world because of the original sin. The story of Adam is a fable.
1. In rare instances, DNA is known to jump from one species to another, leaving a signature in the genome of the creature it moves to.
Scientists have now discovered one of these signatures - known as a DNA 'fossil' - dating back 25-17 million years ago in the genomes of modern birds.
Astonishingly this fossil DNA comes from a parasitic worm that is now responsible for some of the world's most grisly tropical diseases.
It suggests prehistoric birds were infected by these worms millions of years ago before the parasite jumped the species barrier and began infecting humans.
Alexander Suh, an expert in the small stretches of DNA called transportable elements that jump from one place to another at Uppsala University, helped make the discovery.
He discovered a new type of transposable element that occurred in certain bird genomes but not others, together with a team from eleven institutions in five countries.
By searching DNA databases, the team discovered that the only other animals that shared the new transposable element were nematode worms that are parasites of humans and other mammals.
'This finding was so unexpected that we were literally speechless at first,' he said.
By comparing the DNA sequences of each instance of the transposable element, his team was able to work out the transfer of DNA between nematodes and birds occurred in two waves across the entire tropics, including remote places like Madagascar.
It infected groups of birds such as parrots, hummingbirds and manakins, according to the study, published in the journal Nature Communications.
The researchers believe modern human parasite species of nematode worms made the move from infecting birds to humans some time sin the last 17 million years.
Two serious and gruesome human diseases are known to be caused by nematode worms and spread by mosquitoes - lymphatic filariasis and loiasis, known as eyeworm.
Lymphatic filariasis causes painful ulcers that can last for years, while people with loiasis, also known as loa loa, suffer from swollen eyes when worns inhabit the body part, with other symptoms including itching, joint pain, fatigue, and even death.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/ ... umans.html
2. Leprosy has plagued mankind throughout history, but is far, far older than stories about the disease in the Bible, according to scientists.
A new study claims the disease is probably the oldest infectious disease in humans with roots stretching back millions of years.
A scientist at the University of Texas MD Anderson Cancer Centre in Houston found that two leprosy-causing bacteria came from a last common bacterial ancestor around 10 million years ago and that ancient humans and hominids suffered from the disease.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/ ... study.html
3. Another bacteria to have gone through the genetic analysis is Bordetella pertussis, the bacteria responsible for whooping cough. Originally thought to have passed to humans via a similar species found in domestic animals, the molecular evidence once again suggests that it has been around since before animals were first domesticated. Instead it may have evolved from the bacteria B. bronchiseptica which was present around 2.5 million years ago with a preference for infecting hominids. This makes a rather neat little story of a bacteria adapting to fit the changing hominids as they became human and evolving specifically to fit the human niche .
http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/lab ... ancestors/
4. The oldest known evidence of Lyme disease may lie in ticks that were entombed in amber at least 15 million years ago, scientists announced.
The researchers investigated four fossilized ticks that had been trapped in chunks of amber found in the Dominican Republic. Inside the ticks' bodies, the scientists saw a large population of cells that looked like the squiggly shaped spirochete cells of the Borrelia genus " a type of bacteria that causes Lyme disease today.
http://www.livescience.com/46007-lyme-d ... -tick.html
5. It looks like the most badass predator to have ever roamed the Earth, but paleontologists have struggled to prove that Tyrannosaurus rex actually hunted its prey, leading some to believe that it was a scavenger. Now, the discovery of a T-rex tooth embedded in the tail of a hadrosaur offers the first direct evidence.
Top image: Robert DePalma depicts the possible attack scenario between a T-rex and hadrosaur.
That T-rex may have been a scavenger isnt as crazy a theory as it might appear; this is actually a longstanding debate that goes back nearly a century.
Was Tyrannosaurus Rex a fearsome predator or just another scavenger?
Paleontologists have uncovered tons of bones with tooth drag and puncture marks that would indicate predatory attacks, but these markings are difficult to attribute to a specific theropod. Whats more, some of these tooth marks could have been made on carcasses.
Yet other theories have speculated that there were too many Tyrannosauruses for the species to survive on hunting alone; it was more like a hyena than a cheetah or a lion, having to rely on opportunistic feeding to sate their appetites given their relative abundance.
Some even suspect it was a cannibal, or that it was a bully that preyed on
smaller dinosaurs.
http://io9.gizmodo.com/5767647/was-tyra ... -scavenger
6. Contrary to popular perceptions, humans are not the only animals that have difficulty during childbirth. One important characteristic of primates as a group is a large head and brain relative to body size (i.e., a high encephalization quotient). For most primates this means that their infants, at birth, have heads that are close to the size of the maternal birth canal through which they must pass. This is especially true of monkeys, lesser apes, and humans. Schultz 3,4 depicted this relationship in a classic figure, re-drawn here as Figure 1, showing the size of the maternal pelvic inlet and the infant cranium in Ateles, Nasalis, Macaca, Hylobates,
the great apes, and humans. The close correspondence between the size of the maternal pelvis and the size of neonatal cranium is obvious for monkeys, gibbons, and humans, whereas chimpanzees, gorillas, and orangutans appear to have spacious birth canals, probably as a result of their large bodies. As one would expect from examining these drawings, birth is reported to be difficult for the
smaller-bodied primates (monkeys and gibbons), as well as for humans, 5-9 but somewhat easier for the larger bodied (great) apes.
At some point in the evolutionary past of humans, the benefits of having assistance during birth outweighed the costs, so that the species-typical pattern of obligate midwifery emerged.
http://www.academia.edu/6580889/Bipedal ... _revisited
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obstetrical_dilemma
Gibbons (/bnz/[3]) are apes in the family Hylobatidae /halobtade, -di/[4]. The family historically contained one genus, but now is split into four genera and 17 species. Gibbons occur in tropical and subtropical rainforests from eastern Bangladesh and northeast India to southern China and Indonesia (including the islands ofSumatra, Borneo, and Java).
Whole genome molecular dating analyses indicate that the gibbon lineage diverged from that of great apes around 16.8 million years ago (Mya) (95% confidence interval: 15.9 " 17.6 Mya; given a divergence of 29 Mya from monkeys).[9] Adaptive divergence associated with chromosomal rearrangements led to rapid radiation of the four genera 5-7 Mya.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gibbon
F. There was no global flood. Noah story is a fable.
We have fossils of kangaroos only in Australia or fossils of a particular species of bisons called Bison latifrons only in North America.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bison_latifrons
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kangaroo
https://ncse.com/cej/1/1/fatal-flaws-flood-geology
1. For example, many cave dwelling animals require 100% humidity to survive. Such animals couldnt have lived through months of turmoil on the boat, much less a weeks stay in the desert.
Let's take troglobites:
A troglobite is an animal that exclusively live in caves and has adapted to its dark surroundings. Most troglobites cannot survive outside of the cave environment. Interestingly, while they never leave the cave environments, their lives are dependent on the world outside of the cave. Roots growing from plants above the surface, streams flowing from outside the cave and trogloxenes, and animals that use caves for shelter but travel outside the cave for nourishment are the only things that make life inside of caves possible. Roots allow nutrients to drip into the caves, streams bring in fresh food and dead animals and trogloxenes provide nutrient-rich feces and corpses that feed bacteria, insects and fungi that serve as the base of the caves food chain.
Because caves provide such a stable environment, which means most of these animals can only live in specific parts of their caves and many of them are endangered because they cannot branch out of their territory. Most troglobites survive in caves with humidity levels between 95 to 100 percent, but those that live in tropical areas deal with higher temperatures that result in more evaporation, thus, lower humidity levels. There are currently 7,700 known species of troglobiites.
2. The bible says male and female.
But what about asexual, hermaphrodites and social animal.
- Social animals like ants and termites which need the whole nest to survive.
-Komodo dragons
In Komodos, the process seems to start with eggs that are like any other, with half the number of required chromosomes. But at some point in the development process, the chromosome count doubles back up and a Komodo embryo results. Only males can result from this process. Thats because in Komodo dragons, females are the ones that have two different sex chromosomes"in this case a Z and a W. Males are ZZ. When the chromosomes in an egg divide and then multiply themselves by two, they can thus produce only a non-viable WW or a viable ZZ"a male. The implication"and perhaps the very reason for this arrangement"is that it would allow a female Komodo to swim to an isolated island and produce her own sexually reproducing population, using her sons as mates once they reached maturity. Nobody said nature was always pretty.
-Parasitic Wasps
Solo reproduction gets stranger in the insect world. Among certain wasp species, fertilized eggs develop into female offspring with the regular number of chromosomes. Unfertilized ones develop into males with only half. But if the female wasp is infected with the Wolbachia bacteria, a different kind of immaculate conception results. Instead of splitting to yield eggs with half the normal number of chromosomes, these wasp eggs forgo division and keep their normal chromosomal number. They then develop into females that are clones of their mothers. The females that result, though, are unable to reproduce sexually. And soon, the entire female population is made up of infected wasps with no possibility of producing offspring that can escape the infection. The bacterium plays the long game, but eventually wins.
- Snails
Most snails are hermaphrodites. The only exceptions include certain freshwater and marine species, such as apple snails and periwinkle snails. In addition to hermaphroditism, snails are also early bloomers; they are sexually mature by the time they reach a year old. The giant African land snail, Achatina fulica, is the largest species of snail on earth and is capable of laying up to 500 eggs at once. As hermaphrodites, they primarily mate with partners, but are also capable of self-fertilization in rare instances.
-Echinoderms
Echinoderms are marine invertebrates. They include sea stars, sea cucumbers, sea urchins and sand dollars. Some of the most well known echinoderms are also hermaphrodites. Certain species of sea star, like the common cushion star (Asterina gibbosa), are sequential hermaphrodites -- changing gender from male to female. A cushion sea star spends its first three years as a male and the next three as a female. While sea cucumbers -- elongated, squishy echinoderms -- and sea urchins are usually divided into separate, distinct sexes, hermaphrodites can exist throughout different species.
Worms
Another class of invertebrates, worms, adds to the proliferation of hermaphroditism. Some worms can fertilize themselves, but for the most part worms need a mate to reproduce. Consider the earthworms mating ritual. During fertilization, earthworms join together with their heads facing opposite directions and pass sperm and eggs between themselves into a joined cocoon. Their reproductive process can occur either above or below the soil when an earthworm emits a pheromone that signals its ready to reproduce.
5.For numerous communicable diseases, the only known reservoir is man. That is, the germs or viruses which cause these diseases can survive only in living human bodies or well-equipped laboratories. Well-known examples include measles, pneumococcal pneumonia, leprosy, typhus, typhoid fever, small pox, poliomyelitis, syphilis and gonorrhea. You say these diseases were created by Satan. But still somebody must have carried them onto Noah's Ark. Note that the argument covers every disease germ or virus which can survive only in a specific host. But even if the Ark was a floating pesthouse, few of these diseases could have survived. In most cases, only two animals of each kind are supposed to have been on the Ark. Suppose the male of such a pair came down with such a disease shortly after the Ark embarked. He recovered, but passed the disease to his mate. She recovered, too, but had no other animal to pass the disease to, for the male was now immune. Every disease for which this cycle lasts less than a year should therefore have become extinct!
6. Marine Fossils
The continents are, on average, covered with sedimentary rock to a depth of about one mile. Some of the rock (chalk, for instance) is essentially 100% fossils and many limestones also contain high percentages of marine fossils. On the other hand, some rock is barren. Suppose that, on average, marine fossils comprise .1% of the volume of the rock. If all of the fossilized marine animals could be resurrected, they would cover the entire planet to a depth of at least 1.5 feet. What did they eat?
Creationists can't appeal to the tropical paradise they imagine existed below the pre- Flood canopy because the laws of thermodynamics prohibit the earth from supporting that much animal biomass. The first law says that energy can't be created, so the animals would have to get their energy from the sun. The second law limits the efficiency with which solar energy can be converted to food. The amount of solar energy available is not nearly sufficient.
7. Fossils and Animals
Scientific creationists interpret the fossils found in the earth's rocks as the remains of animals which perished in the Noachian Deluge. Ironically, they often cite the sheer number of fossils in fossil graveyards as evidence for the Flood. In particular, creationists seem enamored of the Karroo Formation in Africa, which is estimated to contain the remains of 800 billion vertebrate animals (see Whitcomb and Morris, p. 160; Gish, p. 61). As pseudo-scientists, creationists dare not test this major hypothesis that all of the fossilized animals died in the Flood.
Robert E. Sloan, a paleontologist at the University of Minnesota, has studied the Karroo Formation. Told that the animals fossilized there range from the size of a small lizard to the size of a cow, with the average animal perhaps the size of a fox. A minute's work with a calculator shows that, if the 800 billion animals in the Karroo Formation could be resurrected, there would be 21 of them for every acre of land on earth. Suppose we assume (conservatively, I think) that the Karroo Formation contains 1% of the vertebrate fossils on earth. Then when the Flood began there must have been at least 2100 living animals per acre, ranging from tiny shrews to immense dinosaurs. To a non-creationist mind, that seems a bit crowded.
8. Fire in the fossil record
Flood Geology has a habit of not making testable predictions, as it's advocates prefer to interpret data assuming their framework is true, rather than test the framework. However, if nothing else, it does make one clear prediction. If the Geologic record was laid down by water, then there's one thing we should not find any clear evidence of: Fire.
Do we find evidence of Fire in the fossil record? Tons of it. Loads of it. It's abundant in many sediments from as early as the Devonian (1.), and it comes in the form of a simple little fossil known as Fusain. Fusain is fossilized charcoal, and in nature, charcoal is formed by forest fires (2.). Now, a YEC might protest the identification of Fusain as charcoal. Perhaps, they would suggest, it isn't charcoal but something else. Unfortunately for them, there's simply too much evidence supporting the conclusion that Fusain is charcoal.
For one, studies have shown that charcoal produced by natural fires resembles fossil fusain both in physical size and shape and in optical reflectance. (3.) As Jones et al., noted in their comparisons of modern charcoal to fusain:
The most convincing evidence of pyrolysis hitherto recognised is the apparent homogenization of xylem cell walls, as seen under SEM. Work on charcoal from both wildfires and laboratory wood charring under controlled conditions confirms the homogenization as seen under both SEM and TEM. Controlled temperature experiments show that a further rise in temperature causes the cell walls, initially homogenized, to crack and separate along the site of the middle lamella, giving the charcoal a characteristic fibrous texture. Both of these distinctive phases of response to pyrolysis can be observed in fossil charcoals.
Also, the cells crack and separate along the middle lamella, which is what gives charcoal it's characteristic texture. Both of these features are found in charcoal formed by wildfires, and are diagnostic of burning. They are not formed by any water-related process.
So, since we find these features in Fusain, we can know that it is indeed fossilized charcoal. And, given it's so widespread, we know that fire has a long history in the Geologic record (1.). With fire so widespread throughout the sedimentary rock record, we have an immediate challenge to anyone advocating the rock record was laid down by water in a single year at the same time.
So, is there any way a global flood could account for such widespread evidence of fire in something of at least 70% of what they consider flood deposits? The only scenario I could even conceive of is to claim that the majority of their presupposed pre-flood "floating forests" were, for the most part, completely alight up until their burial. However, this is not feasible. The problems with this suggestion are numerous:
8.1. The wood needs to be dry in order to spark naturally from lightning. Wood found in these floating forests would have been light and saturated due to the wet environment that would be typical of marshy floating forests. Anyone who knows how wildfires work knows that if you have a long season period of rain, widfires are highly unlikely to start. Further compounding this problem is that, during the Flood, there were constant torrential rains up until day 40 (or 150, depends on what YEC you ask). Normal thunderstorms usually won't quench a full blown forest fire, but a string of strong thunderstorms or a monsoon are capable of putting out wildfires. A Flood with rains of dare I say "biblical" proportions would not allow fires to even start. All the wood available would be waterlogged. Nothing would ignite, period.
8.2. There's no plausible way to ignite anything. Lightning from the storms would not ignite wood that is absolutely drenched and being hit with torrential rain. Perhaps they'd try and say that, before everything was covered by water, chaotic volcanic activity was spewing lava, and that could ignite the forests. While this may have a better chance of igniting soaked wood than lightning, there's no reason to think there was extensive volcanism during the Flood. The fact there's no mention of it in scripture aside, the copious amounts of CO2 Sulfuirc acid produced by such volcanism would have killed Noah et al.,(5.) If we require that innumerable eruptions and chaotic volcanism took place during the Flood year"these volcanic flows would have poisoned the oceans with heavy metals and saturated the atmosphere with carbon dioxide and sulfur gases. The sheer amount of carbon dioxide would have driven the oceans toward acidic conditions too vile for any surface life. If you want Noah to survive, as the Bible says, then there was no chaotic volcanism. So, lightning is too weak to start such fires and you can't have huge volcanism during the flood if you want any survivors at all, or a habitable world after the flood. Really, there is no possible way to start massive fires in a word wide deluge, period.
8.3. As YEC Andrew Snelling has said (4.):
It appears that lush vegetation might have covered up to 75 percent of the pre-Flood world, including floating forests fringing the land. The Flood waters rose and swept over the land, catastrophically destroying and burying all the vegetation in beds between other fossil-bearing sediments.
The waters of the flood would have buried these floating forests not long after the onset of the Flood, probably within the first 40 days of rain and rising water. This is needed in the Flood model to account for all the coal seams we see in the rock record. But since that is required to make coal, then there isn't enough wood available on the surface to burn and make all the fusain we see in the rock record.
There's no way to explain the extensive amounts of charcoal in the Flood Geology model. The chances of widespread fire starting and staying alight are slim to none. The fact that we see extensive evidence of widespread forest fires throughout nearly all the Geologic record from the Devonian up, we can be certain that the rock record was not formed in any worldwide watery catastrophe. Forest fires are not compatible with torrential rains, waves, currents, and rapid burial of floating forests in a worldwide flood. Flood Geology has quite literally gone up in flames.
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/ar ... 8200001929
https://www.nsf.gov/news/news_summ.jsp?cntn_id=127577
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/ar ... 628990061X http://www.oldearth.org/morton/co2.htm
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-noahs-ark.html
https://ncse.com/cej/4/1/impossible-voyage-noahs-ark
https://ncse.com/cej/1/1/fatal-flaws-flood-geology
http://skepdic.com/noahsark.html
http://www.biblicalnonsense.com/chapter6.html
G. Other fables written by illiterate goat herders back in the Bronze Age:
-Jonah being eaten by a big fish and survives 3 days.
-The exodus of millions of enslaved Israelites and the plaques of Egypt.
-Lots Wife Becoming Salt
-Lazarus Being Raised from the Dead
-Samsons Magic Hair
-Jacob and the case of the magical genetics
-Holy Ghost impregnated a woman, who then gave birth to a man-god(Jesus) who got killed, was brought back to life by an anthropomorphic omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient, perfectly good creator God that has free will (Yahweh).
H. We have in the bible mythical creatures like dragons, giants, leviathan.
We dont seem to see find such creatures alive today or in the fossil record.
/////////Leviathan
Psalm 104:26
There the ships move along, And Leviathan, which You have formed to sport in it.
Job 41:1-34
"Can you draw out Leviathan with a fishhook? Or press down his tongue with a cord? "Can you put a rope in his nose Or pierce his jaw with a hook? "Will he make many supplications to you, Or will he speak to you soft words?
Psalm 74:14
You crushed the heads of Leviathan; You gave him as food for the creatures of the wilderness.
Isaiah 27:1
In that day the LORD will punish Leviathan the fleeing serpent, With His fierce and great and mighty sword, Even Leviathan the twisted serpent; And He will kill the dragon who lives in the sea.
Job 3:8
"Let those curse it who curse the day, Who are prepared to rouse Leviathan.
/////////Dragons
"Smoke went up from his nostrils, and devouring fire from his mouth; glowing coals flamed forth from him."
(Psalm 18:8)
"Awake, awake, put on strength, O arm of the Lord; awake, as in days of old, the generations of long ago. Was it not you who cut Rahab in pieces, who pierced the dragon"
(Isaiah 51:9)
"His breath kindles coals, and a flame comes forth from his mouth."
(Job 41:21)
"In that day the Lord with his hard and great and strong sword will punish Leviathan the fleeing serpent, Leviathan the twisting serpent, and he will slay the dragon
that is in the sea."(Isaiah 27:1)
//////////Giants
"Yet it was I who destroyed the Amorite before them, whose height was like the height of the cedars, and he was as strong as the oaks; yet I destroyed his fruit
above and his roots beneath. Also it was I who brought you up from the land of Egypt, and led you forty years through the wilderness, to possess the land of the Amorite"
(Amos 2:9"10).
"10 (The Emites used to live there"a people strong and numerous, and as tall as the Anakites. 11 Like the Anakites, they too were considered Rephaites,
but the Moabites called them Emites."(Deuteronomy 2:10-11)
"20 (That too was considered a land of the Rephaites, who used to live there; but the Ammonites called them Zamzummites. 21 They were a people strong and numerous,
and as tall as the Anakites. The Lord destroyed them from before the Ammonites, who drove them out and settled in their place."
(Deuteronomy 2:20-21)
"11 (Og king of Bashan was the last of the Rephaites. His bed was decorated with iron and was more than nine cubits long and four cubits wide.
[a] It is still in Rabbah of the Ammonites.)"
(Deuteronomy 3:11-13)
"4 The Nephilim were on the earth in those days"and also afterward"when the sons of God went to the daughters of humans and had children by them. They were
the heroes of old, men of renown."(Genesis 6:4)
I. We have in the bible examples of talking animals: donkey and snake.
The donkey said to Balaam, "Am I not your own donkey, which you have always ridden, to this day? Have I been in the habit of doing this to you?" "No," he said. (Numbers 22:30)
"Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the LORD God had made. He said to the woman, "Did God really say, 'You must not eat from any tree in the garden'?""(Genesis 3:1)
H. Bible is a moral book written with inspiration from a perfectly good God.
Nonsense. The bible is far from being a moral book.
1. Kill Witches
You should not let a sorceress live.(Exodus 22:17 NAB)
2. Kill Homosexuals
If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives. (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)
3. Kill Fortunetellers
A man or a woman who acts as a medium or fortuneteller shall be put to death by stoning; they have no one but themselves to blame for their death. (Leviticus 20:27 NAB)
4. Death for Adultery
If a man commits adultery with another mans wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death. (Leviticus 20:10 NLT)
5. Death for Fornication
A priests daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death. (Leviticus 21:9 NAB)
6. Kill Anyone who Approaches the Tabernacle
For the LORD had said to Moses, Exempt the tribe of Levi from the census; do not include them when you count the rest of the Israelites. You must put the Levites in charge of the Tabernacle of the Covenant, along with its furnishings and equipment. They must carry the Tabernacle and its equipment as you travel, and they must care for it and camp around it. Whenever the Tabernacle is moved, the Levites will take it down and set it up again. Anyone else who goes too near the Tabernacle will be executed.(Numbers 1:48-51 NLT)
7. Kill People for Working on the Sabbath
The LORD then gave these further instructions to Moses: Tell the people of Israel to keep my Sabbath day, for the Sabbath is a sign of the covenant between me and you forever. It helps you to remember that I am the LORD, who makes you holy. Yes, keep the Sabbath day, for it is holy. Anyone who desecrates it must die; anyone who works on that day will be cut off from the community. Work six days only, but the seventh day must be a day of total rest. I repeat: Because the LORD considers it a holy day, anyone who works on the Sabbath must be put to death.(Exodus 31:12-15 NLT)
9. Killed by a Lion
Meanwhile, the LORD instructed one of the group of prophets to say to another man, Strike me! But the man refused to strike the prophet. Then the prophet told him, Because you have not obeyed the voice of the LORD, a lion will kill you as soon as you leave me. And sure enough, when he had gone, a lion attacked and killed him.(1 Kings 20:35-36 NLT)
10. Kill Sons of Sinners
Make ready to slaughter his sons for the guilt of their fathers; Lest they rise and posses the earth, and fill the breadth of the world with tyrants.(Isaiah 14:21 NAB)
11. Mass Murder
This is what the Lord of hosts has to say: I will punish what Amalek did to Israel when he barred his way as he was coming up from Egypt. Go, now, attack Amalek, and deal with him and all that he has under the ban. Do not spare him, but kill men and women, children and infants, oxen and sheep, camels and asses. (1 Samuel 15:2-3 NAB)
12. More Rape and Baby Killing
Anyone who is captured will be run through with a sword. Their little children will be dashed to death right before their eyes. Their homes will be sacked and their wives raped by the attacking hordes. For I will stir up the Medes against Babylon, and no amount of silver or gold will buy them off. The attacking armies will shoot down the young people with arrows. They will have no mercy on helpless babies and will show no compassion for the children.(Isaiah 13:15-18 NLT)
13. God Kills an Extended Family
You have done more evil than all who lived before you. You have made other gods and have made me furious with your gold calves. And since you have turned your back on me, I will bring disaster on your dynasty and kill all your sons, slave or free alike. I will burn up your royal dynasty as one burns up trash until it is all gone. I, the LORD, vow that the members of your family who die in the city will be eaten by dogs, and those who die in the field will be eaten by vultures.' Then Ahijah said to Jeroboams wife, Go on home, and when you enter the city, the child will die. All Israel will mourn for him and bury him. He is the only member of your family who will have a proper burial, for this child is the only good thing that the LORD, the God of Israel, sees in the entire family of Jeroboam. And the LORD will raise up a king over Israel who will destroy the family of Jeroboam. This will happen today, even now! Then the LORD will shake Israel like a reed whipped about in a stream. He will uproot the people of Israel from this good land that he gave their ancestors and will scatter them beyond the Euphrates River, for they have angered the LORD by worshiping Asherah poles. He will abandon Israel because Jeroboam sinned and made all of Israel sin along with him. (1 Kings 14:9-16 NLT)
14. God Promises More Killing
I will make Mount Seir utterly desolate, killing off all who try to escape and any who return. I will fill your mountains with the dead. Your hills, your valleys, and your streams will be filled with people slaughtered by the sword. I will make you desolate forever. Your cities will never be rebuilt. Then you will know that I am the LORD.(Ezekiel 35:7-9 NLT)
How the Hebrew slaves are to be treated
If you buy a Hebrew slave, he is to serve for only six years. Set him free in the seventh year, and he will owe you nothing for his freedom. If he was single when he became your slave and then married afterward, only he will go free in the seventh year. But if he was married before he became a slave, then his wife will be freed with him. If his master gave him a wife while he was a slave, and they had sons or daughters, then the man will be free in the seventh year, but his wife and children will still belong to his master. But the slave may plainly declare, I love my master, my wife, and my children. I would rather not go free. If he does this, his master must present him before God. Then his master must take him to the door and publicly pierce his ear with an awl. After that, the slave will belong to his master forever. (Exodus 21:2-6 NLT)
15. Sex slave
When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girls owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment.(Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)
16. Beating your slave to death
When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property. (Exodus 21:20-21 NAB)
17. Slaves as property
However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)
18. Murder, rape and pillage of the Midianites
They attacked Midian just as the LORD had commanded Moses, and they killed all the men. All five of the Midianite kings " Evi, Rekem, Zur, Hur, and Reba " died in the battle. They also killed Balaam son of Beor with the sword. Then the Israelite army captured the Midianite women and children and seized their cattle and flocks and all their wealth as plunder. They burned all the towns and villages where the Midianites had lived. After they had gathered the plunder and captives, both people and animals, they brought them all to Moses and Eleazar the priest, and to the whole community of Israel, which was camped on the plains of Moab beside the Jordan River, across from Jericho.
Moses, Eleazar the priest, and all the leaders of the people went to meet them outside the camp. But Moses was furious with all the military commanders who had returned from the battle. Why have you let all the women live? he demanded. These are the very ones who followed Balaams advice and caused the people of Israel to rebel against the LORD at Mount Peor. They are the ones who caused the plague to strike the LORDs people. Now kill all the boys and all the women who have slept with a man. Only the young girls who are virgins may live; you may keep them for yourselves. (Numbers 31:7-18 NLT)
19. More Murder Rape and Pillage
As you approach a town to attack it, first offer its people terms for peace. If they accept your terms and open the gates to you, then all the people inside will serve you in forced labor. But if they refuse to make peace and prepare to fight, you must attack the town. When the LORD your God hands it over to you, kill every man in the town. But you may keep for yourselves all the women, children, livestock, and other plunder. You may enjoy the spoils of your enemies that the LORD your God has given you.(Deuteronomy 20:10-14)
20. Laws of Rape
If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father. Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her. (Deuteronomy 22:28-29 NAB)
21. Death to the Rape Victim
If within the city a man comes upon a maiden who is betrothed, and has relations with her, you shall bring them both out of the gate of the city and there stone them to death: the girl because she did not cry out for help though she was in the city, and the man because he violated his neighbors wife. (Deuteronomy 22:23-24 NAB)
22. Rape of Female Captives
When you go out to war against your enemies and the LORD, your God, delivers them into your hand, so that you take captives, if you see a comely woman among the captives and become so enamored of her that you wish to have her as wife, you may take her home to your house. But before she may live there, she must shave her head and pare her nails and lay aside her captives garb. After she has mourned her father and mother for a full month, you may have relations with her, and you shall be her husband and she shall be your wife. However, if later on you lose your liking for her, you shall give her freedom, if she wishes it; but you shall not sell her or enslave her, since she was married to you under compulsion. (Deuteronomy 21:10-14 NAB)
J. The so perfectly good, omniscient, omnipotent, infinitely wise and merciful God punishes some of his creatures with everlasting torment in the Lake of Fire for sins committed in a finite life.
Yeah right. And this is supposed to make sense.
14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. (Revelation 20:14)
9 Whenever the living creatures give glory, honor and thanks to him who sits on the throne and who lives for ever and ever. (Revelation 4:9)
7 Then one of the four living creatures gave to the seven angels seven golden bowls filled
Last edited by alexxcJRO on Mon Sep 12, 2016 5:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
"It is forbidden to kill; therefore all murderers are punished unless they kill in large numbers and to the sound of trumpets."
"Properly read, the Bible is the most potent force for atheism ever conceived."
"God is a insignificant nobody. He is so unimportant that no one would even know he exists if evolution had not made possible for animals capable of abstract thought to exist and invent him"
"Two hands working can do more than a thousand clasped in prayer."
"Properly read, the Bible is the most potent force for atheism ever conceived."
"God is a insignificant nobody. He is so unimportant that no one would even know he exists if evolution had not made possible for animals capable of abstract thought to exist and invent him"
"Two hands working can do more than a thousand clasped in prayer."
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Re: Atheism, the art of defying logic, reason and commonsens
Post #13No idea. I think there can be a god whom we cant see but feel his present.E.G wrote: We depend on air, every second, to continue to live, but we cant see Air, why cant be there a God whom we cant see but feel his present? (Reason).
Because we prefer it that way, having been wired by evolution.We came from apes and survival is for the fittest. Why then, as human species we have, for generations, an acceptable system of passing inheritance to succeeding generations?
Incorrect. Inheritance doesn't nor can it defies the concept of "survival of the fittest," "survival of the fittest" is descriptive not prescriptive.This defies the concept of survival is for the fittest, since it gives some people advantages over others, also makes them depended on those who pass the inheritance (thus, they are not necessarily the fittest).
We don't know the answer to any of these.So, the question is, if that is how it came about, what would stop this phenomenon from happening again? And what could be the results? A major explosion covering the entire universe?
Not sure how to answer that, why wouldn't we seek harmony and order in our lives? It's exactly the kind of things one expect from a "disorderly Big Bang." Could you rephrase the question? What is the disconnect you see from our behaviour and being the product of Big Bang?This appears to contradict having an order in the universe as many scientists have testified. If we (the human species) were a product of such a disorderly "Big Bang", how come then we always seek harmony and order for our lives?
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JoeyKnothead
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Post #14
I didn't say none of that.E.G wrote: [Replying to post 3 by JoeyKnothead]
There is always hope for all those brave and free thinkers that their motive is to find the truth and discover the formula for success in life. This post was not intended to be a philosophical discussion, but rather a practical one, especially for the analytical and critical brains that are capable of seeing both sides of any argument, hypothesis or theory (that is what it means to set your mind on neutral (unbiased), i.e., not prematurely take one side of the argument).So you may find hope for atheists, yet.
You said:the Dark Ages, when Judeo-Christianity murdered science along with every man woman and child who disagreed with what didn't make sense in the Bible.
Allow me to suggest that this statement fits into emotional argument; we cant take few cases and build a large conclusion on them. We learn this in schools, colleges and universities. Moreover, if it wasnt for the Christian moral teaching and values, and the Christian scientists, we would not have today this advanced knowledge and civilization. I would like to direct you to this link where over 200 names of Christians in science and technology are listed from the year 1098 to "currently living":
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_C ... technology,
You will find the most contributors to science and technology were Christians, not atheist or all other religion combined. Can you tell me, what is the secret behind this FACT?
The history of Christianity attests to the fact that what the Lord Christ left behind has taken the world from darkness to an everlasting positive light. Just imagine for a minute, the countries of North America being established on different moral and judicial systems that were not based on the teaching of Lord Christ and his Holy Bible? Would you still consider it for a place to live in?
I respect that attrubutional errors may have occurred.
I might be Teddy Roosevelt, but I ain't.
-Punkinhead Martin
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Re: Atheism, the art of defying logic, reason and commonsens
Post #15Yes. Then there is the 4th group that you fail to mention, namely the group who realized there is no rational reason to be a theist.E.G wrote: [center]Atheism: the art of defying logic, reason and commonsense[/center]
Throughout my years of traveling and meeting different people, I have also met atheists, among whom I have made friends. I have also realized that there are three different groups of atheists:
1- Those, who have been hurt, offended or disappointed in church, and the so called people of God.
2- Those, who could not resist or break free from their families pressure; they gave in, following the non-belief ideology, which was imposed on them.
3- The third is a smart bunch, want to make a "splash" or make money challenging the big guy God. This way they would look bigger and smarter to impress, or to make speeches and write books to gain fame and make money.
What is the common thread among these three groups?
In two word: emotional reaction.
We may not be able to see it, but there are several ways to detect it. Air is empirically evident. God isn'tE.G wrote:- We depend on air, every second, to continue to live, but we cant see Air
I'm not saying there "can't" be a God, but the fact that there can be a God is not enough to assume there is one.E.G wrote:why cant be there a God whom we cant see but feel his present? (Reason).
I don't see your point here. Is this some kind of criticism on evolution? If so, I'm going to spare myself the hassle of debating evolution with a creationist by pointing out that even if evolution is wrong, it does not automatically conclude that God exists.E.G wrote:- We came from apes and survival is for the fittest. Why then, as human species we have, for generations, an acceptable system of passing inheritance to succeeding generations? This defies the concept of survival is for the fittest, since it gives some people advantages over others, also makes them depended on those who pass the inheritance (thus, they are not necessarily the fittest). (Logic).
Our inability to answer this question does not automatically conclude that God exists. This argument is known as the "god-of-the-gaps fallacy" and it seems to be what your argument is built around.E.G wrote: - If life came about as a result of a big bang theory: Our universe is thought to have begun as an infinitesimally small, infinitely hot, infinitely dense- a miracle. Where did it come from? We don't know. Why did it appear? We don't know. After its initial appearance, it apparently inflated (the "Big Bang")
This is a non-sequitur. Just because we came from disorder does not mean our behavior must be disorderly. This is no more "common sense" than making the argument that "no vegetation likes the color red because red is the color of meat". Our coming from disorder does not automatically mean we will always behave in a disorderly mannerE.G wrote: If we (the human species) were a product of such a disorderly "Big Bang", how come then we always seek harmony and order for our lives? (Common sense).
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PghPanther
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Re: Atheism, the art of defying logic, reason and commonsens
Post #16E.G wrote: [center]Atheism: the art of defying logic, reason and commonsense[/center]
Throughout my years of traveling and meeting different people, I have also met atheists, among whom I have made friends. I have also realized that there are three different groups of atheists:
1- Those, who have been hurt, offended or disappointed in church, and the so called people of God.
2- Those, who could not resist or break free from their families pressure; they gave in, following the non-belief ideology, which was imposed on them.
3- The third is a smart bunch, want to make a "splash" or make money challenging the big guy God. This way they would look bigger and smarter to impress, or to make speeches and write books to gain fame and make money.
What is the common thread among these three groups?
In two word: emotional reaction.
Let us switch our magnificent mind to the channel reads Neutral, where we can come to conclusions that are most beneficial, first and for most, to ourselves, our peace of mind and potential prosperity.
Definitions:
Logic is a systematic approach to a problem.
Reason is basically answering the question why. It implies rationality.
Common sense is exercising good sense and sound judgment in practical matters.
- We depend on air, every second, to continue to live, but we cant see Air, why cant be there a God whom we cant see but feel his present? (Reason).
- We came from apes and survival is for the fittest. Why then, as human species we have, for generations, an acceptable system of passing inheritance to succeeding generations? This defies the concept of survival is for the fittest, since it gives some people advantages over others, also makes them depended on those who pass the inheritance (thus, they are not necessarily the fittest). (Logic).
- If life came about as a result of a big bang theory: Our universe is thought to have begun as an infinitesimally small, infinitely hot, infinitely dense- a miracle. Where did it come from? We don't know. Why did it appear? We don't know. After its initial appearance, it apparently inflated (the "Big Bang") http://www.big-bang-theory.com/.
So, the question is, if that is how it came about, what would stop this phenomenon from happening again? And what could be the results? A major explosion covering the entire universe? This appears to contradict having an order in the universe as many scientists have testified. If we (the human species) were a product of such a disorderly "Big Bang", how come then we always seek harmony and order for our lives? (Common sense).
Sounds like you haven't been around that long and are new to this subject.....
Atheism is a position on one subject the existence or non existence of a God (most often the personal God of the Bible with those living in the US).
Most atheists come to that conclusion based on reality as evidenced through the consistent and predictable models derived from the scientific method.......
....emotions have nothing to do with that position.......
......and be careful about common sense and logic, while is servers us very well in most everyday activities.....it can fail us miserable when we get into the areas that in the past have been the territory of philosophy and religion that science is now beginning to unravel for us....
Common sense and logic tells us that time/space are not relative............but reality demonstrates that they are.......
Common sense says that an object cannot be in more than one place at the same time..........quantum physics demonstrates that in fact reality at that level objects can.....
I'd suggestion you talk to more people and do a more studying on the subject outside of theological propaganda........
By the way your ignorance on natural selection (evolution) is appalling..............species survive environmental pressures to replicate those traits based on the most "fittest" means most "adaptable".........and in all warm blooded milk fed mammals that are social base species this means those that are able to bond together collectively have the best chance of survival.............and when you reach the cognitive capacity level of humans that bonding is comprised of co-operation, trust and care of each other being the key traits of our adaptability to the pressures that surrounded us particularly in our early development as a species which we have learned to expand from first small family units to ever larger groups once agriculture was developed necessitating increased larger settlement groups.....
If you don't understand that I suggest you start by reading "Sociobiology" by EO Wilson for starters........
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Talishi
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Re: Atheism, the art of defying logic, reason and commonsens
Post #17There's one more group.E.G wrote: Throughout my years of traveling and meeting different people, I have also met atheists, among whom I have made friends. I have also realized that there are three different groups of atheists:
1- Those, who have been hurt, offended or disappointed in church, and the so called people of God.
2- Those, who could not resist or break free from their families pressure; they gave in, following the non-belief ideology, which was imposed on them.
3- The third is a smart bunch, want to make a "splash" or make money challenging the big guy God. This way they would look bigger and smarter to impress, or to make speeches and write books to gain fame and make money.
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Tired of the Nonsense
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Re: Atheism, the art of defying logic, reason and commonsens
Post #18You are reading your own assumptions into why people have turned away from religion. I was raised Christian but stopped believing when I was 13 years old. Why? Because I came to the realization that Christianity is entirely too silly to be true. That was it. I wasn't mad at anyone, and it wasn't an emotional reaction to anything. I stopped believing that Jesus died, came back to life and the subsequently flew away for exactly the same reason I concluded that Santa and his team of flying reindeer don't actually exist. Because believing that is silly.E.G wrote: [center]Atheism: the art of defying logic, reason and commonsense[/center]
Throughout my years of traveling and meeting different people, I have also met atheists, among whom I have made friends. I have also realized that there are three different groups of atheists:
1- Those, who have been hurt, offended or disappointed in church, and the so called people of God.
2- Those, who could not resist or break free from their families pressure; they gave in, following the non-belief ideology, which was imposed on them.
3- The third is a smart bunch, want to make a "splash" or make money challenging the big guy God. This way they would look bigger and smarter to impress, or to make speeches and write books to gain fame and make money.
What is the common thread among these three groups?
In two word: emotional reaction.
Let us switch our magnificent mind to the channel reads Neutral, where we can come to conclusions that are most beneficial, first and for most, to ourselves, our peace of mind and potential prosperity.
Definitions:
Logic is a systematic approach to a problem.
Reason is basically answering the question why. It implies rationality.
Common sense is exercising good sense and sound judgment in practical matters.
- We depend on air, every second, to continue to live, but we cant see Air, why cant be there a God whom we cant see but feel his present? (Reason).
- We came from apes and survival is for the fittest. Why then, as human species we have, for generations, an acceptable system of passing inheritance to succeeding generations? This defies the concept of survival is for the fittest, since it gives some people advantages over others, also makes them depended on those who pass the inheritance (thus, they are not necessarily the fittest). (Logic).
- If life came about as a result of a big bang theory: Our universe is thought to have begun as an infinitesimally small, infinitely hot, infinitely dense- a miracle. Where did it come from? We don't know. Why did it appear? We don't know. After its initial appearance, it apparently inflated (the "Big Bang") http://www.big-bang-theory.com/.
So, the question is, if that is how it came about, what would stop this phenomenon from happening again? And what could be the results? A major explosion covering the entire universe? This appears to contradict having an order in the universe as many scientists have testified. If we (the human species) were a product of such a disorderly "Big Bang", how come then we always seek harmony and order for our lives? (Common sense).
Most of the non believers I know stopped believing for the same reason. They realized that Christian claims are silly and unrealistic, and that there are far more realistic answers to be had.
"The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honorable, but still primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish. No interpretation no matter how subtle can (for me) change this." -- Albert Einstein -- Written in 1954 to Jewish philosopher Erik Gutkind.-
JehovahsWitness
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Re: Atheism, the art of defying logic, reason and commonsens
Post #19[Replying to post 1 by E.G]
I agree that atheism demand a degree of faith as it presumes an event that defies both logic and the law of physics:
JW
I agree that atheism demand a degree of faith as it presumes an event that defies both logic and the law of physics:
None of us were present to witness these events and since they defy the laws the govern our universe anyone believing them is calling on a measure of faith. Atheism simply demands more faith and less common sense than theism.SINGULARITY: The theory that an infintesimal point of singularity always existed for all eterntiy in a totally stable condition suddenly exploded into change defies the law of inertia (things that are at rest stay at rest unless unless acted upon by a net unbalanced force).
Even the idea of a chaotic and disordered universe denies the reality that even the existence inanimate objects in the universe would be impossible without an extremely precise set of natural "laws": laws of gravitation, motion, thermodynamics, fluid behaviour etc.
JW
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681
"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681
"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
Re: Atheism, the art of defying logic, reason and commonsens
Post #20Atheism does not presume singularity. Being an atheist does not require you to believe in singularity, the Big Bang, evolution, or anything. Atheism is simply the belief that there is no god. Nothing more, nothing less.JehovahsWitness wrote: [Replying to post 1 by E.G]
I agree that atheism demand a degree of faith as it presumes an event that defies both logic and the law of physics:
None of us were present to witness these events and since they defy the laws the govern our universe anyone believing them is calling on a measure of faith. Atheism simply demands more faith and less common sense than theism.SINGULARITY: The theory that an infintesimal point of singularity always existed for all eterntiy in a totally stable condition suddenly exploded into change defies the law of inertia (things that are at rest stay at rest unless unless acted upon by a net unbalanced force).
Even the idea of a chaotic and disordered universe denies the reality that even the existence inanimate objects in the universe would be impossible without an extremely precise set of natural "laws": laws of gravitation, motion, thermodynamics, fluid behaviour etc.
JW
