Jehovahs Witnesses only ones that will be saved?????

[Donray]

Jehovahs Witnesses teach that only 144,000 people will go to heaven. God chooses these 144,000 individuals, the process began with the first century Christians and was completed in the year 1935. Of course from 1879 (the year the Watchtower started) till 1935 only faithful Jehovahs Witnesses were chosen for this special role. All faithful Jehovahs Witnesses not chosen to be among the 144,000 elite that go to heaven (those joining the Watchtower after 1935) will spend eternity on earth. All other people on the earth will be destroyed at war of Armageddon here on earth. This would also include any Jehovah's Witnesses who has been disfellowshipped or is otherwise unfaithful to the Watchtower and has not worked his or her way back into the good graces of the Watchtower by the time of Armageddon.

If one believes the JWs all other Christians and everyone that is not a JW will not go to heaven or live on the Earth after Armageddon.

Question for debate is JW the only true Christin religion or is it some type of cult that calls itself Christian?

[B Bob]

[Replying to post 8 by JehovahsWitness]

QUOTE:The Jehovah's Witness beliefs are as follows:

To reestablish the lost paradise of Eden, God has arranged for a governement to fix the global problems and rule over the earth. END QUOTE.

Q1) Is this paradise in the new earth?
Q2) Will people have glorified bodies without blood?

[Elijah John]

# Are Jehovah's Witnesses some type of cult that calls itself Christian?

I find this question to be inflamatory and insulting. Cults for the most part engage in dangerous and illegal and or anti-social behavior and to suggest that 9 million people do this is unwarranted. Jehovah's Witnesses are generally recognized for being law abiding, family orientated people that make a positive contribution to their communities. IF this question was asked with the pupose of encouraging a frenzy of anti-witness verbal attacks, I feel confident at least on this forum, that that will not happen as the posters here are balanced and respectful in their address.

Jehovah's Witnesses do however consider themselves Christians as they strictly adhere to the teachings of Christ as presented in the bible canon.


JEHOVAHS WITNESS

Also, cults are secretive. Jehovah's Witness, by contrast, are open, honest and welcoming. Their meetings are open to the public.

You should realy look up the definition of words before you attempt to put your own definition to them.

Full Definition of cult form Merriam Webster
1: formal religious veneration : worship

This 'un here pertains to major denominations like the RCC, Eastern Orthodox, and Anglican...those aren't cults either.

2: a system of religious beliefs and ritual; also : its body of adherents

Applies to Evangelicals as well as the above listed. Not cults.

3: a religion regarded as unorthodox or spurious; also : its body of adherents

Unorthodox as defined by whom, you? The RCC? There was a time members of the Jesus movement were defined as "unorthodox" by normative Judaism.

4: a system for the cure of disease based on dogma set forth by its promulgator <health cults>

Does not pertain to the group in question.

5a : great devotion to a person, idea, object, movement, or work (as a film or book); especially : such devotion regarded as a literary or intellectual fad
b : the object of such devotion
c : a usually small group of people characterized by such devotion

No central charismatic leader, not cult of personality with the JWs. Charles Taze Russell may have been the founder, but by that defninition, what about Methodism? Their origins can be traced to John and Charles Wesley, are Methodists a "cult"?

What about the Presbyterians (sp?). They can be traced back to John Calvin.

And Lutherans, with Martin Luther? And Anglicans, Episcopalians, traced back to King Henry the VIII.

They are not "cults" are they?

That dictionary definition is not comprehansive. And secrecy was a tragic ingredient of the Jonestown Kool-Aid drinking cult. They murdered outsiders.

In short, the definition of "cult" seems to be '"anyone who does not believe like we do

One should be very careful about tossing around terms like "cult" for the purpose of demonizing and denigrating others.

Please point where this definition includes secret meetings?

Please point out where JWs don't fit the definition. I thought that JW were religious veneration. The JWs are also unorthodox according to the orthodoxy of the Catholic church. They also have devotion to there founder. i.e. CULT

Are you going to tell me that the JW represents that major orthodoxy of the Christian religion?

See above, and also JWs and onewithhim's posts. "Not orthodox" does not equate with "cult".

[JehovahsWitness]

Please point out where JWs don't fit the definition.

1: formal religious veneration : worship
2: a system of religious beliefs and ritual; also : its body of adherents

This would apply to all Christians including Catholics.

3: a religion regarded as unorthodox or spurious; also : its body of adherents

This would depend on who you ask. The majority of people would say Jehovah's Witnesses are simply a Christian group.

The JWs are also unorthodox according to the orthodoxy of the Catholic church.

And the Catholic Church is viewed as unorthodox according to the orthodoxy of the Jehovah's Witness religion. So there! Who says they get to decide what is "orthodox" or not.

5a : great devotion to a person, idea, object, movement, or work (as a film or book)

This would arguably apply to all Christians; the devotion to the person would be God, the movement would be Christianity, the work (book) would be the bible.

especially : such devotion regarded as a literary or intellectual fad

Christianity is not a fad (a passing trend) and the modern day organization of Jehovah's Witnesses have been active for over 120 years... hardly a "fad".

c : a usually small group of people characterized by such devotion

Jehovah's Witnesses are small in proportion to the major religions this is true, however, the book "Religious Perspectives on the Rights and Wrongs of Proselytism" (John Witte, Richard C. Martin, pub 1999) observes "it may be said that Jehovah's Witnesses are the second largest religion practised by the local popoulation in Italy" (the home of the Vatican) and at nearly 9 million their number is larger than the population of not a few of the world's nations, hardly neglible. (The total number of attendees of the Jehovah's Witness annual Memoral event was nearly 20 million).

They also have devotion to their founder

Yes, the "founder" of the Jehovah's Witnesses, as is claimed by all Christians, is Christ.

Are you going to tell me that the JW represents that major orthodoxy of the Christian religion?

orthodoxy (noun)
1. authorized or generally accepted theory, doctrine, or practice.

Jehovah's Witnesses practice christianity as authorized by its founder Jesus Christ and follow the theory, doctrine and practise he established. Thus by the above definition they can be defined as "orthodoxy".

[Donray]

[Replying to post 132 by Elijah John]

You like other Christians want to change the meaning of words why don't you argue with Webster and not me.

You have failed to provide a definition where secret is part of the meaning.

You just are trying to defend your definition of words.

Lots of people think that the JW is a cult.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 113 by onewithhim]

Your post 10 says nothing bout what a good Christin must believe as far as the dogma and practices of the versus Christin religions.

Second you don't seem to be able to state things without bible quotes. Just list in simple sentences what is need to be a true Christian. I already covered that belief in the trinity is not required. Worship of one god is not required since WJs treat Jesus as a demigod and therefore have at least two gods. Anyone that thinks Jesus was the son of God but not God as the trinity implies is worshipping two gods. God and Jesus the demigod.




So, what are the minimum beliefs to be a good Christin?

Don't give me bible versus just use your own thoughts unless you don't have any of your own and need to quote the bible for all your thoughts.

A JW is d***** if we do and d***** if we don't! You say that we use scriptures too much. Another poster says that we don't support our ideas with scripture! LOL! It really would be hilarious if it wasn't so pathetic. We can't win, no matter what we say or do.

BTW, it is the Trinity Doctrine that purports the existence of THREE GODS. That is polytheism. JWs worship one God, the Father, whom Jesus called "MY GOD." (John 20:17)

Didn't say you use the bible to much. I said do you need to quote the bible versus as much as saying in tour own words what you get from it. I understand that the bible is your only source of truth since there are no facts that prove God or Jesus.

For example, there are three stories of where and when Jesus was born put most Christians only use one of the stories to prove that Jesus was born and don't quote all the others that disagree with the one they use.

You and most Christians just use your interpretation of what the passage means anyway that is why there are thousands of Christian religions.

I am honestly trying to figure out what are the real requirements to get an afterlife. What does one need to believe and practice. So far I have from JWs that all the Christians religions are OK and will get you to the afterlife.

No, that is absolutely not true. I don't think you have been reading what JWs are saying. And, we have been putting in our own words what we believe, and then we cite a scripture. I can't believe that you haven't realized that.

If you are honestly trying to figure out what are the real requirements "to get an afterlife," you would at least comment on my post # 10, for example. I am honestly trying to figure out why you won't.

You skipped right by my request, again, that you comment on my post # 10.

[Donray]

[Replying to post 133 by JehovahsWitness]

Why don't you look up the definition of words before you reply with stuff that is not true.

Look up gay and see what it says.

Yes words change overtime, but a god dictionary has the current main stream meanings.

Again you are the one trying to change the meaning/definition of words.

[JehovahsWitness]

Why don't you look up the definition of words before you reply with stuff that is not true. A go[o]d dictionary has the current [...] main stream meanings. Again you are the one trying to change the meaning/definition of words.

You will notice I both quoted, provided a link and took a screenshot of Merriam-Webster definition of the word "cult" in my opening post #130, short of paying for you to fly over to their headquarters and have lunch with the publishers I could have done no more to prove I am indeed familiar with the meaning of the word CULT.

Lots of people think that the JW is a cult.

And are you using this word in its negative sense of a dangerous and extreme group or in its general sense as simply religious? As I have demonstrated both can be found in the same dictionary (Merriams-Webster) so you will have to clarify which meaning you are referring to.

-- Are you saying most people think Jehovah's Witnesses are "religious"? If that's the sense you are using the word "cult" then yes, I would agree, Jehovah's Witnesses are "religious".

I have already outlined where Jehovah's Witnesses do not fit the definition of "cult" over and above those aspects which can be applied to all religions including Catholics in a rather detailed response post #133 as per your request.


You're welcome,

JW

[Donray]

[Replying to post 137 by JehovahsWitness]

I think all religion is dangerous, look at what damage Muslims cause in the name of God.

What about all the priests that rape children, is that a danger of religion?

I think JWs are a Delete repeated word to the people that give money than they can afford to say with the JWs. If this is not true tell me that one can become, stay a member, and advance in the ranks without payment of any type.

[JehovahsWitness]

I think all religion is dangerous, look at what damage Muslims cause in the name of God. What about all the priests that rape children, is that a danger of religion?

Well we're not talking about "all religions" here we are talking about Jehovah's Wtinesses and your allegation wasn't what YOU think but what you claim most people think...

Lots of people think that the JW is a cult.

In order to prove this you must first say in what sense you are using the word "cult" (since both the classic and the contemporary usage are in the dictionary you quoted) in relation to our religion. And while you are at it you can explain why you used the word in contrast to "Christians".

You may proceed now to address the actual issue you raised should you so wish by first clarifying in what sense you used the word "cult" in your classification of Jehovah's Witness.

[JehovahsWitness]

I think JWs are a Delete repeated word to the people that give money than they can afford to say with the JWs.

This sentence is difficult for me to understand due to somewhat confusing syntax. I presume it has something to do with donations, but I can't be sure...

If this is not true tell me that one can become, stay a member, and advance in the ranks without payment of any type.

One can become, stay and advance in the ranks of being a Jehovah's Witness without making any monetary payment of any type whatsoever.

Jehovah's Witnesses do not have a system of tithing (fixed amount of donations), no contribution plates are passed around during the services and all literature, services (baptisms, marriages, funeral services...) and bible lessons are completely free of charge. All our bible schools are free for those attending. Indeed one can become one of Jehovah's Witnesses and remain one for 50 years and never contribute a penny and no one would know.

All contributions are entirely voluntary and can be made in complete anonymity or not at all.

It is, in my opinion best to not make assumptions about individuals or groups, in favor of simply asking for desired information. Jehovah's Witnesses are more than happy to explain aspects of their organization and worship; all one has to do is ask.

JW