Jehovah’s Witnesses only ones that will be saved?????

[Donray]

Jehovah’s Witnesses teach that only 144,000 people will go to heaven. God chooses these 144,000 individuals, the process began with the first century Christians and was completed in the year 1935. Of course from 1879 (the year the Watchtower started) till 1935 only faithful Jehovah’s Witnesses were chosen for this special role. All faithful Jehovah’s Witnesses not chosen to be among the 144,000 elite that go to heaven (those joining the Watchtower after 1935) will spend eternity on earth. All other people on the earth will be destroyed at war of Armageddon here on earth. This would also include any Jehovah's Witnesses who has been disfellowshipped or is otherwise unfaithful to the Watchtower and has not worked his or her way back into the good graces of the Watchtower by the time of Armageddon.

If one believes the JWs all other Christians and everyone that is not a JW will not go to heaven or live on the Earth after Armageddon.

Question for debate is JW the only true Christin religion or is it some type of cult that calls itself Christian?

[JehovahsWitness]

Therefore, when one says we will return to paradise, it simply cannot be a return to the original type of paradise that Adam and Eve lived - see (Isa 65:17)

I cannot see how Is 65:17 proves that an earthly paradise is impossible.

ISAIAH 65:17
Because the former troubles are forgotten, And because they are hidden from My sight! "For behold, I create new heavens and a new earth; And the former things will not be remembered or come to mind.

QUESTION: Does Isaiah 65:17 prove that nobody will have any knowledge or notion of what a sin is?

Isaiah speaks of God's promise that "the former things will not be remembered" or "come to mind" or "be remembered". In the bible remembering something is often more than just recalling an event, it the word is used to denote recalling something in a way that it effects your actions. For example the unfaithful Israelites are spoken of in the bible as "forgetting" their God and not "remembering" his saving acts of the past. This does not mean they literally forgot their forfathers had been in Egypt or that they forgot their God was Jehovah, but rather that that information no longer effected them or their choices.

Thus, Isaiah 65:17 can be understood to mean that memories of the past suffering will no longer cause individual pain, that they will be of no consequence. We use the expression in a similar way in English, when someone tries to apologize for a wrong they have committed, its not unusual for the erred person to reply "It's forgotten!". Do they mean they don't recall what the person is talking about? No, they mean the past will have no effect on their present and that no further significance should be attached to the event. That its in the past and a line will be drawn so that it no longer matters.

CONCLUSION There is no reason to conclude that all memories will have to be eradicated in the paradise, much less that an earthly paradise is impossible.

[JehovahsWitness]

The knowledge of sin will not only not exist in the new heaven and new earth, because it will never have entered them!

Do you understand now?

No I don't. But then I don't have to - you were asking what Jehovah's Witnesses believe and I explained. I do understand you take 2 Pet 3 literally and we don't. As for the rest, we'll just have to agree to disagree.



JW

[B Bob]

[Replying to post 149 by B Bob]

B Bob wrote:
Ok. The Garden of Eden is a type and shadow of heaven.


QUOTE: No, I don't agree. I believe it was a literal garden in a location on the earth. If you claim otherwise you will need to prove that with scripture UNQUOTE

I believe it was a literal garden in location on earth too. However, it represents a type and shadow of heaven. It is not heaven but a type and shadow of heaven.


QUOTE: existence of the tree in the garden doesn't prove sin had already been committed; it simply meant that sin was a possibility. God told them to obey him and explained if they did not and they sinned, they would die. If they had already sinned at that point, what was the point of telling them NOT to? UNQUOTE

Sure it does. There cannot be knowledge of something unless it exists. Additionally, the serpent (Satan) was also present there (with the knowledge of sin) before Adam and Eve sinned. He could not be present unless he already sinned against God.


QUOTE: God created Adam and Eve and placed them in the garden God pronounced the 6th creative "day" very good. Good by God's standards is perfection (see Deut 32:4). If God said, at the end of that 6th day every thing was good/perfect, there couldn't have been any sin there.
UNQUOTE

Yes, you are correct. Now, here in lies the rub. Has the sixth day of creation come to pass in the fullness of time? I don’t have time to unpack all of this, but I’ll give you some things to consider.

(Gen 2:1-4) says God completed all His works by the seventh day and rested from all His work. The seventh day is the eternal day of God’s rest; the true Sabbath. We know this, amongst other scriptures, that the seventh day of creation, you might notice, does not have an evening and morning into an eight day. There is no other day, no eight , ninth, or eighty thousandth day.

Therefore, we must still be living in the sixth day of creation, since we still live in a corrupted creation and have not entered God’s rest. It also reveals what Jesus meant when speaking to the Jews that were persecuting Him - see (John 5:17). His Father, from our view, had not yet stopped working. Meaning God had not yet entered His eternal day of rest; the seventh day of creation, the true Sabbath day of God. This of course is from our view in the fullness of time (remember, from God’s view, His works were done before the foundation of the world).

I have observed that most of us, including myself, forget all authors can only write from their viewpoint. Therefore, God being the author of the Bible, presented the story of creation from His viewpoint, not ours. Realizing this fact, changed the way I see the scriptures. I hope this is something others would recognize too.

God is before all things and beyond all things.; past, present, and future. This is inherently different from us. While we view all things from a past, present, and future events, God sees all these things in the past tense even though the events have not come to pass in the fullness of time. From God’s view, He finished all His works. From our view, all of His works have not come to pass in the fullness of time, including His works of the sixth day of creation.

It is hard to wrap your head around this concept, but it is true - For example, God spoke of things that were not, as if they were. God told Abraham he was a father of many nations, even though Abraham was childless and his wife was past the age to conceive. Abraham only had hope against hope that what God said would become true. However, take note God said it was true before it happened and against all odds that it would happen. We can now see it is true, because we can see it came to pass when the gentiles received Christ. God spoke of His view in a mystery, Abraham would be the father of many nations, by Faith, in the mystery now revealed, in Jesus Christ.In God's view it was already done long before it happened. In our view, it didn't happen until thousands of years later.

I know this is a lot to chew on, but I implore you to look at it closely. I have much to say about this with an enormous amount of scripture to support it, but it’s too much at one time and too much for this post, and too much for the amount of time I have at this moment.



QUOTE: something [can] exist isn't the same as it existing. I know that murder is the unlawful taking of a life. That doesn't mean I've killed someone. God knew that sin could exist, this is why he warned Adam and Eve not to commit one, that doesn't mean that they already had (see above) UNQUOTE

This statement seems to suggest I implied Adam and Eve already sinned, if so that is not correct. The knowledge of sin in heaven came through sin entering God’s creation. It has nothing to do with Adam and Eve. It was between God and Satan and a third of the angels that rebelled against God. However, we were subjected to temptation of sin by Satan as well, and that could not be unless sin was already committed by Satan, thus the tree of knowledge of Good and Evil.

[B Bob]

[Replying to post 151 by JehovahsWitness]

You know what, people often study the scriptures to prove what they believe is true. Anything can be explained away if we want to do that.

Are you doing this? Everything I have said is wrong?

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 153 by B Bob]

Okay, well I'll agree that Satan at some point rebelled and tempted Adam and Eve.

The rest we will have to agree to disagree on.

Peace,

JW

[B Bob]

[Replying to post 155 by JehovahsWitness]

Could you also agree that the only image and likeness man was made in is the image and likeness of Jesus Christ who walked the earth? And also could you agree that the only image an likeness man will be made in again is the glorious image and likeness of of resurrected Jesus Christ? And, could you agree the Bible says we weremade in the image and likeness of God?

Can you say yes to all three, or will you explain away these Biblical truths? If you say yes, then it should give you pause as how these things can be, if Jesus Christ is not God.

Pray about it.

[JehovahsWitness]

Could you also agree that the only image and likeness man was made in is the image and likeness of Jesus Christ who walked the earth?

No.

And, could you agree the Bible says we were made in the image and likeness of God?

Yes

And also could you agree that the only image an likeness man will be made in again is the glorious image and likeness of resurrected Jesus Christ?

No.

Can you say yes to all three, ...?

No.

Have a fabulous day,


JW

[B Bob]

[Replying to post 157 by JehovahsWitness]
B Bob wrote:
Could you also agree that the only image and likeness man was made in is the image and likeness of Jesus Christ who walked the earth?

QUOTE: No. END QUOTE.


No? Just No? No, without explanation? Really? Your response is inadequate.

MY RESPONSE: Let’s bee honest with ourselves. The only sinless image and likeness God, of Himself, has ever revealed to man is Jesus Christ. This is the one man was made in the sinless and innocent image and likeness of. This is proven. You cannot provide any other example because there is not one. If man was made in the image and likeness of God, then according to the scriptures, the God man was made in the image and likeness of in the beginning, is Jesus Christ (who is the beginning)

B Bob wrote:
And, could you agree the Bible says we were made in the image and likeness of God?

Yes

MY RESPONSE: We agree, Gen 1:26-27.

B Bob wrote:
And also could you agree that the only image an likeness man will be made in again is the glorious image and likeness of resurrected Jesus Christ?


QUOTE: No. END QUOTE.

MY RESPONSE:Just “No� again without a defense and explanation of your position?

Here is scriptural proof - see 1 John 3:2, with 1 Cor 15:50-55, pay attention to very 57. It is image an likeness of the imperishable resurrected Jesus Christ in who we will be like in the resurrection of the living.

B Bob wrote:
Can you say yes to all three, ...?

QUOTE: No. END QUOTE.

MY RESPONSE: You answer correctly, because that question was “could you�. However, could you give the answer “No�, and be correct?. There is no way unless you simply disregard the scriptures provide here and throughout the Bible.. You have not defended your position.

Please respond to your argument against these scriptures I have argued in favor of who the God is that we were made in the sinless image and likeness of (in spirit and in flesh) in the beginning and restored into the sinless and innocent image and likeness of (in spirit and flesh) in the end?

And one more thing. you might notice that God not only made man in the image and likeness of Himself in the begging, but also reconciled man (Col 1:19-20) to Himself in the end. So, do you know that Jesus Christ is the Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the need, the first and the last? This is only the icing on the cake when you come to the realization Jesus Christ is the God Almighty!

ff we were made the sinless and innocent image of God in the beginning and then, being restored through Christ in whom all the fullness of God dwells (permanently and forever abides) - see (Col 1:19), we, in the end, being resurrected in the sinless and innocent image and likeness of the imperishable resurrected body of Christ. Then it is a worthy statement that God made man in the beginning and in the end, in His own image and according to His own likeness.

So, being created (born) in the sinless and innocent image and likeness of the perishable (1 Cor 15:50) firstborn over all creation: Jesus Christ (Col 1:16) and being made again, a new creation (born again), resurrected in the glory of the sinless and innocent image and likeness of the imperishable resurrected Christ. We can be assured that God is Jesus Christ, because Jesus Christ is, the Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last, He who is, who was, and is forevermore!!! (Col 1:18, Rev 3:14, Isa 41:4, 44:6, 48:12, Rev 1:8, 17, 2:8, 21:6, 22:13).


FYI: In this post, these are the scriptures I referenced and applied in support of my argument that Jesus Christ is Lord and God of all, therefore, the trinity is a false doctrine and the JW doctrine that Jesus Christ is not God is errant.
Gen 1:26-27
1 John 3:2 with 1 Cor 15:57
1 Cor :15:50-55
Col 1:16, 18-19
Rev 3:14
Isa 41:4, 44:6, 48:12
Rev 1:8, 17, 2:8, 21:6, 22:13

Sir, I have argued my position and explained the use of the scriptures in support of it. Will you do the same?

What say you?

[JehovahsWitness]

Sir, I have argued my position and explained the use of the scriptures in support of it. Will you do the same?

Probably, but not with you.

Have a nice day.


JW

[B Bob]

[Replying to post 159 by JehovahsWitness]

I understand, when a lie is faced with the truth, the lie must flee! Run, run, run as you must.