How far does one go?

[Elijah John]

The Puritans of New England, and the Jehovah's Witnesses of today forbid the observance of Christmas, as being "of pagan origin".

To be consistent, hadn't one ought to rename the days of the week?

In English,

Sunday = Sun day.
Monday = Moon day.
Tuesday = Tiw's day.
Wednesday = Woden's day.
Thurday = Thor's day
Friday = Freya's day.
Saturday = Saturn day.

The English days of the week were all named after gods of the pagan Norse pantheon, with a few Greco-Roman planet names thrown in.

For debate, how far should a good Christian go to purge paganism from the culture?

Or should we all just "lighten up" and observe Christmas as well?

[onewithhim]

And yes, it does matter--because what was lost has been found despite those who think God does not speak apart from the Bible.

Ah there's the key why we will never agree.

2 Timothy 3:16, 17 says the scriptures are so "that the man of God may be fully competent, completely equipped for every good work." Not halfway and not 3/4 equipped but 'fully' and 'completely.' You say 'God speaks apart from the Bible', I don't think you know just how dangerous this is. How do you think we got all these pagan rituals in religions in the first place. Someone said, 'God doesn't speak only from the Bible, listen to me, I will show you where else He speaks from.' Indeed, Satan tries to tell us what God wants us to know too. "For God knows that in the very day of your eating from it your eyes are bound to be opened and you are bound to be like God, knowing good and bad. (Gen 3:5)

So if you wish to look outside the Bible for your answers, go for it at you own risk.

Fearing Satan that much? That isn't faith at all. 1 John 4:18 "17In this way, love has been perfected among us, so that we may have confidence on the day of judgment; for in this world we are just like Him. 18There is no fear in love, but perfect love drives out fear, because fear involves punishment. The one who fears has not been perfected in love. 19We love because He first loved us."

The Bible tells you about the Holy Spirit, about God's grace, about worshiping God in spirit. And unless you do what the Bible tells you to do--if you leave it there on the page--it is useless.

Satan is merely a tempter and has no power over you. But your only protection--if you think you need it, is to rely on God. That is active faith. That book can't do it for you.

You take one sentence as warning and ignore all the sentences that you ought to be paying attention to. So, Jesus says, "Believe in God. Believe also in me." Does he say to believe in Satan? No.

2timothy is not the one who is ignoring practically the whole Bible. 2timothy has got it going on! It's funny you should come down on anyone who is cognizant of Satan's existence. Tell me, where do you get the idea that 2timothy is NOT looking to God to protect him?





:yapyap: clueless

[catnip]

And yes, it does matter--because what was lost has been found despite those who think God does not speak apart from the Bible.

Ah there's the key why we will never agree.

2 Timothy 3:16, 17 says the scriptures are so "that the man of God may be fully competent, completely equipped for every good work." Not halfway and not 3/4 equipped but 'fully' and 'completely.' You say 'God speaks apart from the Bible', I don't think you know just how dangerous this is. How do you think we got all these pagan rituals in religions in the first place. Someone said, 'God doesn't speak only from the Bible, listen to me, I will show you where else He speaks from.' Indeed, Satan tries to tell us what God wants us to know too. "For God knows that in the very day of your eating from it your eyes are bound to be opened and you are bound to be like God, knowing good and bad. (Gen 3:5)

So if you wish to look outside the Bible for your answers, go for it at you own risk.

Yes, absolutely. It was Satan (at Genesis 3:5) who said that a person could successfully be independent of God and make up their own minds what they want to believe is good or bad. This would, in effect, make them "like God," because they would be dictating to themselves what is acceptable and what is not.

We have the complete Word from God, as you say. There is no need at all for anything beyond that.

So, you would make up your own mind what to believe and refuse to listen to the living God?

The Bible is actually NOT the Word of God. Read the 1st Chapter of the Gospel of John and quit proclaiming that a book is the Word of God. It isn't. And it never says it is. Timothy says it is useful--but not the end all of faith! The indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit is not an unremarkable thing--read up on it in your scriptures--in ACTS on Pentecost. Are you filled with joy?

Only faith in the living God is noteworthy. The scriptures do attest to it, but it isn't something that you can just know about and not live into. It tells you how. This is the Way, the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

[Blastcat]

[Replying to post 65 by 2timothy316]

It was mankind that dictated slavery was acceptable in the in first place.

Well, we know that mankind was around at the time, so I have to agree with that one. Too bad about the ten commandments, though.

Could have made an impact on slavery, don't you think?

[onewithhim]

And yes, it does matter--because what was lost has been found despite those who think God does not speak apart from the Bible.

Ah there's the key why we will never agree.

2 Timothy 3:16, 17 says the scriptures are so "that the man of God may be fully competent, completely equipped for every good work." Not halfway and not 3/4 equipped but 'fully' and 'completely.' You say 'God speaks apart from the Bible', I don't think you know just how dangerous this is. How do you think we got all these pagan rituals in religions in the first place. Someone said, 'God doesn't speak only from the Bible, listen to me, I will show you where else He speaks from.' Indeed, Satan tries to tell us what God wants us to know too. "For God knows that in the very day of your eating from it your eyes are bound to be opened and you are bound to be like God, knowing good and bad. (Gen 3:5)

So if you wish to look outside the Bible for your answers, go for it at you own risk.

Yes, absolutely. It was Satan (at Genesis 3:5) who said that a person could successfully be independent of God and make up their own minds what they want to believe is good or bad. This would, in effect, make them "like God," because they would be dictating to themselves what is acceptable and what is not.

We have the complete Word from God, as you say. There is no need at all for anything beyond that.

So, you would make up your own mind what to believe and refuse to listen to the living God?

The Bible is actually NOT the Word of God. Read the 1st Chapter of the Gospel of John and quit proclaiming that a book is the Word of God. It isn't. And it never says it is. Timothy says it is useful--but not the end all of faith! The indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit is not an unremarkable thing--read up on it in your scriptures--in ACTS on Pentecost. Are you filled with joy?

Only faith in the living God is noteworthy. The scriptures do attest to it, but it isn't something that you can just know about and not live into. It tells you how. This is the Way, the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

How do you know that I "don't live into" faith in the living God? I know exactly how to do that, and I know what the Gospel of Jesus Christ is. I DO listen to the living God, and he speaks to us through his Word, the Bible. If you are hearing voices, you're in a very precarious position.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 65 by 2timothy316]

It was mankind that dictated slavery was acceptable in the in first place.

Well, we know that mankind was around at the time, so I have to agree with that one. Too bad about the ten commandments, though.

Could have made an impact on slavery, don't you think?

It should have. But the majority of people usually go the way of the world, and Satan rules the world. (I John 5:19; Luke 4:5,6)

[Blastcat]

[Replying to post 75 by onewithhim]

!

[center]
The good that God could have done, but didn't, part 2. [/center]

It was mankind that dictated slavery was acceptable in the in first place.

Well, we know that mankind was around at the time, so I have to agree with that one. Too bad about the ten commandments, though.

Could have made an impact on slavery, don't you think?

It should have. But the majority of people usually go the way of the world, and Satan rules the world. (I John 5:19; Luke 4:5,6)

The fact of the matter is that nothing was even SAID about slavery that might have HAD some kind of an impact, even THOUGH humans are so hopelessly flawed as your religion dictates to you that we are.

I suppose that if you include yourself with the majority of people, you also go the way of the world, and Satan rules it. OR... you put yourself into the MINORITY .... the minority of 2.2 billion people who call themselves Christians in the world as of 2010.

Some SMALL minority.. but I suppose that the rest of us are all ruled by Satan.
Too bad that God didn't do something about Satan, either, right?

So, let me get this right:

1. Are you saying that God commanded that slavery was wrong?
2. Are you saying that God did anything about Satan having his way with the world?

[marco]

But the majority of people usually go the way of the world, and Satan rules the world.

It really is intolerable that the billions of good works done across the globe are simply brushed aside with statements about Satan ruling the world.

The good send the bad to prison. If Satan ruled it would be the other way round. Of course there are bad people, but thankfully good generally triumphs except IRONICALLY in some countries that have a fervent faith in God.

[JehovahsWitness]

It really is intolerable that the billions of good works done across the globe are simply brushed aside with statements about Satan ruling the world.

Intolerable for whom? We know God is tolerating the present system dominated by Satan (the bible says the whole world is lying in the hands of the wicked one) so if God can tolerate it, those that feel as he does as expressed in the bible will do so.

Further it is God, not humans and certainly not atheists, that decide what is "good" or not so it is possible that what is popularly viewed as "good" works do not meet his criteria of being thus classified. God is the absolute decider of what is good or not.

The bible is unambigous on this, Satan is the God of this system, God's people must tolerate with this while awaiting a "change of managment".


Jehovah's Witnesses await a 'change in management'

The good send the bad to prison. If Satan ruled it would be the other way round.

Not necessarily. The bible says one reason God allows human governments to exist is that they are god's ministers for discipline for bad works. So in a limited sense, human organizations maintain order through, amongst other things, the punishment of crime. Satan ruling the world doesn't necessarily mean therefore every individual or organization in the world is explicitly evil, only that the system reflects his (Satan's) characteristics and ultimately serves his aims which are not to ensure that every evil person commits heinous crimes but to oppose the purpose of Jehovah (see Genesis 3:15). Indeed Satan is not stupid, and knows that a measure of order is necessary to achieve his aims.

Further it is the height of naivity to believe that everyone in prison is "bad" and everyone outside is "good" (I'm not saying that is your point but am pointing out a reality of this system). The reality is that the disadvantaged, often end up on life courses that make bad life choices easy and crime a liklihood. Another sad reality of this system is reflected in the saying "Too big to jail" where many of the individuals whose illegal or corrupt actions effect the most people escape jail because of their money, influence and connections.

Of course there are bad people, but thankfully good generally triumphs except IRONICALLY in some countries that have a fervent faith in God.

Indeed corrupt religion is another of Satan's tools that Jehovah is tolerating. I don't know if I can agree that good generally triumphs in this system. The poor, those without the defense of money, influence, popularity, educaton, advantage, upbringing through no fault of their own more often than not are NOT those that are rewarded for being hardworking and honest. Often big business, corrupt religion and vile politics end up polluting their water, robbing them of their land, blocking their chances, abusing their children, and throwing them aside when they are no longer useful.

While God sees and sustains those that love him, there is for me little doubt the system itself is essentially ruthless, corrupt, oppressive and misleading. Like it's god.

JW

[catnip]

And yes, it does matter--because what was lost has been found despite those who think God does not speak apart from the Bible.

Ah there's the key why we will never agree.

2 Timothy 3:16, 17 says the scriptures are so "that the man of God may be fully competent, completely equipped for every good work." Not halfway and not 3/4 equipped but 'fully' and 'completely.' You say 'God speaks apart from the Bible', I don't think you know just how dangerous this is. How do you think we got all these pagan rituals in religions in the first place. Someone said, 'God doesn't speak only from the Bible, listen to me, I will show you where else He speaks from.' Indeed, Satan tries to tell us what God wants us to know too. "For God knows that in the very day of your eating from it your eyes are bound to be opened and you are bound to be like God, knowing good and bad. (Gen 3:5)

So if you wish to look outside the Bible for your answers, go for it at you own risk.

Fearing Satan that much? That isn't faith at all. 1 John 4:18 "17In this way, love has been perfected among us, so that we may have confidence on the day of judgment; for in this world we are just like Him. 18There is no fear in love, but perfect love drives out fear, because fear involves punishment. The one who fears has not been perfected in love. 19We love because He first loved us."

The Bible tells you about the Holy Spirit, about God's grace, about worshiping God in spirit. And unless you do what the Bible tells you to do--if you leave it there on the page--it is useless.

Satan is merely a tempter and has no power over you. But your only protection--if you think you need it, is to rely on God. That is active faith. That book can't do it for you.

You take one sentence as warning and ignore all the sentences that you ought to be paying attention to. So, Jesus says, "Believe in God. Believe also in me." Does he say to believe in Satan? No.

2timothy is not the one who is ignoring practically the whole Bible. 2timothy has got it going on! It's funny you should come down on anyone who is cognizant of Satan's existence. Tell me, where do you get the idea that 2timothy is NOT looking to God to protect him?





:yapyap: clueless

The sentence I was referring to is the one in 2 Cor 11:14 where Paul says that Satan comes as an angel of light. Of course he does. All of God's creations reflect the light of God in varying degrees. In context, that is not even a warning about recognizing Satan but to be aware of those who teach falsely:

13For such men are false apostles, deceitful workers, masquerading as apostles of Christ. 14And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. 15It is not surprising, then, if his servants masquerade as servants of righteousness.

Seriously! Where do you find any teaching in the scriptures that you must believe in Satan?

Who says I ignore the whole Bible? Are you bearing false witness? To be clear, we each need the Holy Spirit, we each should hear the voice of God and we are told to. I said that faith is going beyond what is written.

"Believing in the Bible" won't save you. It is, in fact, idolatry. The Bible is a created thing, not God. Read what Paul says about idolatry in Romans 1, 2. Reading and understanding its historical context is extremely important in understanding its message.

Again: Jesus told you who to believe in.

[catnip]

[Replying to post 65 by 2timothy316]

It was mankind that dictated slavery was acceptable in the in first place.

Well, we know that mankind was around at the time, so I have to agree with that one. Too bad about the ten commandments, though.

Could have made an impact on slavery, don't you think?

It should have. But the majority of people usually go the way of the world, and Satan rules the world. (I John 5:19; Luke 4:5,6)

John 12:30, 31

Jesus said, "This voice spoke for your sake, not mine. Now is the hour of judgment for this world; now shall the prince of this world be driven out. . . ."

He had victory over death and that is Satan.

1 Cor 15:57 and Rev 12:11 (I know you read Revelation as not having yet occurred, but I see the whole history of the faith written in its pages.)

http://biblehub.com/commentaries/john/12-31.htm