Is God imperfect or simply indifferent?

[Justin108]

Assuming for argument sake that Mark 16:16 and Revelations 21:8 are both true in suggesting that unbelievers are condemned

If God fails to convince each and every one of us that he exists, this either implies that
a) God was unable to convince us he exists (implying imperfection)
b) God did not care to try to convince all of us (implying apathy)

Is God imperfect? Or simply apathetic in our salvation?

[JLB32168]

If God fails to convince each and every one of us that he exists, this either implies that
a) God was unable to convince us he exists (implying imperfection)
b) God did not care to try to convince all of us (implying apathy)

Excluded middle:

God perfectly reveals Himself to anyone unless s/he is deliberately obtuse.

Let's use your argument for something else.

Evolution is the perfect explanation for how man arrived on the scene. Not all people accept evolution's conclusions; therefore, evolution is not the perfect explanation for how man arrived on the scene.

[Hawkins]

Assuming for argument sake that Mark 16:16 and Revelations 21:8 are both true in suggesting that unbelievers are condemned

If God fails to convince each and every one of us that he exists, this either implies that
a) God was unable to convince us he exists (implying imperfection)
b) God did not care to try to convince all of us (implying apathy)

Is God imperfect? Or simply apathetic in our salvation?

The New Covenant specifies that you need faith in order to be saved. It's all about how much faith you have instead of how well He convinces you. You miss the whole point.

It is actually much easier for Him to be convincing. That's the time when the final judgment comes. He will show up to everyone to give him the judgment result. However that's the time the saved already saved and the unsaved unsaved.

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 1 by Justin108]

I see this as a false dichotomy based on the presumption that God has not provided sufficient evidence of his existence and that it is in his or our interests that he force people to accept that evidence.

The universe is in my opinion more than enough evidence for any reasonable individual to conclude there is a God. And the more we learn about it and the life in it, the more it becomes a logical and scientific inevitability. It is however possible God has no interest in forcing the unreasonable to see sense if they don't want to.

JW


The Origin of Life: Five questions worth asking
https://www.jw.org/finder?pub=lf&wtlocale=E&srcid=share

[ttruscott]

If God fails to convince each and every one of us that he exists, this either implies that
a) God was unable to convince us he exists (implying imperfection)
b) God did not care to try to convince all of us (implying apathy)

This misses the mark of Christian teaching so it is a strawdog, all noise, no bite.

Christians accept Rom 1:20 as contending that everyone, that is, every human in all time, has seen the proof of the Divinity and power of YHWH so they are without excuse for their continued disbelief in HIM while the rest of the chapter claims everyone has repressed that truth because they love sin more.

GOD has not failed to convince anyone; HE has just exposed the incredible inevitable consequences of becoming enslaved by the addictive power of evil that clouds men's minds. If you are not convinced of HIS power and divinity, then you are failing yourself.

[ttruscott]

The universe is in my opinion more than enough evidence for any reasonable individual to conclude there is a God.

Please consider:
Since a great part of the world has understood that the universe teaches that they are god, part of the godly essence, and since no person has ever come to the conclusion that YHWH is the creator GOD taught only by nature without any teaching from a believer about what Rom 1;20 means,

and since the context makes it very clear that the conclusion that there is A God is unwarranted since it clearly sets up that it is Jehovah's power and divinity that was revealed, not just that a god must have been involved...

I'm curious...what is there about nature which would reveal the power and divinity of YHWH to every person in creation in such a vast fashion so as to provide the proof so that no one has any excuse!?? How could HE have done this?

Is the pagan, both ancient and modern not guilty for their rejection of YHWH as their GOD because they are without excuse yet they are immersed in nature and all that it means? There is an incredible contradiction between what the verse is interpreted to mean and reality in the human world as we know it...

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 6 by ttruscott]

Fair enough, I should have maybe said "A Creator" rather than the generic God.

JW

[Tired of the Nonsense]

Assuming for argument sake that Mark 16:16 and Revelations 21:8 are both true in suggesting that unbelievers are condemned

If God fails to convince each and every one of us that he exists, this either implies that
a) God was unable to convince us he exists (implying imperfection)
b) God did not care to try to convince all of us (implying apathy)

Is God imperfect? Or simply apathetic in our salvation?

Here is Christian make believe in action. Angels saved a classroom of children from a bomb.




Here is the full lowdown on the Cokeville incident.

Wikipedia
Cokeville Elementary School hostage crisis
Location Cokeville, Wyoming, United States
Date Friday, May 16, 1986
Attack type
School bombing, hostage situation, suicide attack
Deaths 2 (both perpetrators)
Non-fatal injuries
79
Perpetrators David Young and Doris Young
The Cokeville Elementary School hostage crisis occurred on Friday, May 16, 1986, in Cokeville, Wyoming, United States, when former town marshal David Young, 43, and his wife Doris Young, 47,[1] took 136 children and 18 adults hostage at Cokeville Elementary School.

David Young entered the school with his wife transporting a large gasoline-filled device that appeared to be a bomb. The couple corralled a large group of students and teachers into a single classroom. David Young attached the bomb trigger to his wrist and threatened the group that he might, at any time, move his arm and ignite the bomb.

After a two-and-a-half hour standoff, the children were becoming restless, so the teachers led them in prayer. The praying appeared to make David Young agitated and he decided to leave the room. Before leaving the room, David Young attached the bomb's detonation device to his wife's wrist.
When the children became increasingly loud, Doris Young began begging the teachers to settle the group down. At one point she lifted her arm sharply and the bomb went off prematurely, injuring Doris Young while David Young was out of the room. Returning to the scene, David Young shot his wife, then himself. All the hostages escaped, though 79 were later hospitalized with burns and injuries
http://www.city-data.com/forum/newre...ly&p=45599800&


Here is another example of Christian mythology meeting hard reality.


The Washington Post
December 14, 2012
Sandy Hook Elementary shooting leaves 28 dead, law enforcement sources say
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... story.html

No angels... no Divine intervention. When religious make believe is confronted with physical reality, physical reality always prevails.

[Tired of the Nonsense]

Assuming for argument sake that Mark 16:16 and Revelations 21:8 are both true in suggesting that unbelievers are condemned

If God fails to convince each and every one of us that he exists, this either implies that
a) God was unable to convince us he exists (implying imperfection)
b) God did not care to try to convince all of us (implying apathy)

Is God imperfect? Or simply apathetic in our salvation?

The New Covenant specifies that you need faith in order to be saved. It's all about how much faith you have instead of how well He convinces you. You miss the whole point.

It is actually much easier for Him to be convincing. That's the time when the final judgment comes. He will show up to everyone to give him the judgment result. However that's the time the saved already saved and the unsaved unsaved.

Being required to first believe in something before it becomes believable explains believers and their dedication to their beliefs. Just close your eyes and believe. You must believe it first before it becomes believable is a very ineffective argument, however. Especially when one looks around and sees all of the thousands of various and varied beliefs that exist. And all of them based on some pretty darned UNbelievable claims.

[OnceConvinced]

If God fails to convince each and every one of us that he exists, this either implies that
a) God was unable to convince us he exists (implying imperfection)
b) God did not care to try to convince all of us (implying apathy)

Excluded middle:

God perfectly reveals Himself to anyone unless s/he is deliberately obtuse.

God should surely be able to convince even the deliberately obtuse. If not then he's not much of a god.

So it's still God's failure, no matter which way you look at it.