Atheism, the art of defying logic, reason and commonsense.

[E.G]

[center]Atheism: the art of defying logic, reason and commonsense[/center]

Throughout my years of traveling and meeting different people, I have also met atheists, among whom I have made friends. I have also realized that there are three different groups of atheists:

1- Those, who have been hurt, offended or disappointed in church, and the so called people of God.

2- Those, who could not resist or break free from their families pressure; they gave in, following the non-belief ideology, which was imposed on them.

3- The third is a smart bunch, want to make a "splash" or make money challenging the big guy God. This way they would look bigger and smarter to impress, or to make speeches and write books to gain fame and make money.

What is the common thread among these three groups?

In two word: emotional reaction.

Let us switch our magnificent mind to the channel reads Neutral, where we can come to conclusions that are most beneficial, first and for most, to ourselves, our peace of mind and potential prosperity.


Definitions:

Logic is a systematic approach to a problem.

Reason is basically answering the question why. It implies rationality.

Common sense is exercising good sense and sound judgment in practical matters.


- We depend on air, every second, to continue to live, but we cant see Air, why cant be there a God whom we cant see but feel his present? (Reason).

- We came from apes and survival is for the fittest. Why then, as human species we have, for generations, an acceptable system of passing inheritance to succeeding generations? This defies the concept of survival is for the fittest, since it gives some people advantages over others, also makes them depended on those who pass the inheritance (thus, they are not necessarily the fittest). (Logic).

- If life came about as a result of a big bang theory: Our universe is thought to have begun as an infinitesimally small, infinitely hot, infinitely dense- a miracle. Where did it come from? We don't know. Why did it appear? We don't know. After its initial appearance, it apparently inflated (the "Big Bang") http://www.big-bang-theory.com/.

So, the question is, if that is how it came about, what would stop this phenomenon from happening again? And what could be the results? A major explosion covering the entire universe? This appears to contradict having an order in the universe as many scientists have testified. If we (the human species) were a product of such a disorderly "Big Bang", how come then we always seek harmony and order for our lives? (Common sense).

[E.G]

[Replying to OnceConvinced]

So you think that religious books don't make a profit?
Some religious writers are quite famous.

Your statement has confirmed Biblical prophecies written thousands of years ago.

A truth seeker, who is applying unbiased mind in searching and learning the truth, which has the power to set you free, should expose false teaching by corrupt teachers, as well as unsubstantiated theories and assumptions made by atheists.

Here are some of what the Bible has to say about false teachers, who use the word of God for personal gain:

1 John 4:1 - Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
1 Timothy 6:5: These people always cause trouble. Their minds are corrupt, and they have turned their backs on the truth. To them, a show of godliness is just a way to become wealthy.
Jude 1:4 - For certain individuals whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you. They are ungodly people, who pervert the grace of our God into a license for immorality and deny Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord.
2 Peter 2:1 - But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

Should we expose false teachers?

Ephesians 5:11 Take no part in the unfruitful works of darkness, but instead expose them.
Romans 16:17-18 And now I make one more appeal, my dear brothers and sisters. Watch out for people who cause divisions and put obstacles in your way by teaching things contrary to what you have been taught. Stay away from them. Such people are not serving Christ our Lord; they are serving their own personal interests. By smooth talk and glowing words they deceive innocent people.

[Blastcat]

[Replying to post 31 by E.G]

!


[center]A facile ad hominem is delivered and pointed out[/center]


Maybe the insult wasn't noticed by theists in here... so I will point it out.
It was rather nasty.

It's a prime example of an ad hominem argument. Put someone DOWN to prove your point is a very nasty approach to honest debate, in my opinion.

Let's take a look at this one, shall we?

So you think that religious books don't make a profit?
Some religious writers are quite famous.

Your statement has confirmed Biblical prophecies written thousands of years ago.

I think if you look closely, that the statement was mine.
ref:Re:%20Atheism,%20the%20art%20of%20defying%20logic,%20reason%20and%20commonsens

A truth seeker, who is applying unbiased mind in searching and learning the truth, which has the power to set you free, should expose false teaching by corrupt teachers, as well as unsubstantiated theories and assumptions made by atheists.

Right there... that's the offensive remark. Here is it below again:

"as well as unsubstantiated theories and assumptions made by atheists."

Seems to be a harmless statement of opinion, right? Not so harmless, in MY opinion, being that I am TARGETED here. You seem to be comparing atheists to those DISHONEST false preachers... lumping us in with the bad guys, as it were.

Now wonder atheists are the least trusted group in America. NO THANK YOU, BIBLE PROMOTERS, by the way.

www.scientificamerican.com/article/in-a ... -distrust/

When it comes to who is a false preacher or a true teacher, there seems to be a bit of a discussion going on as who which is which. Religious people don't seem to agree. Sometimes, from the outside looking in, it looks like "My religion is better than your religion." Or "my tribe is better than your tribe" or "My team is way better than your team". Another word for that kind of "Us against them" kind of thinking is "tribalism". Football and Basketball garner as much fervor as religion in America. This focus on divisions is all a bit frightening ... FALSE PREACHERS are whoever preach what you don't preach, and they are a right nasty bunch, aren't they? And that would make sense because the Bible was written in the time of tribalism. Go team, go. BOOOO to the other guys.

IF you aren't FOR us, you are AGAINST us, isn't that right?
Those nasty false preachers are AGAINST you?

Atheists are a right nasty bunch too, right? With our biased minds and so forth?
As an atheist, I seem to stand accused right now of having a "biased mind". and having "unsubstantiated theories" and 'assumptions".

It's unfortunate that you haven't seen fit to tell us what those are, so that we could defend ourselves. Especially when an accused such as I can simply turn around and accuse theists of being exactly the same.

Are some theists biased? I think so, yes.
Do some theists have unsubstantiated theories? Again, I'd say yes.
Do theists work from assumptions? I'd say all the time. They have to assume what it is they believe in. I would go further and say that all they HAVE are assumptions.

One such assumption is that a god exists in the first place. Another, I suppose, is that the Bible is the "word of God", whatever that's supposed to mean. Opinions vary.

I could go on.

What would we have GAINED by slinging insults back and forth?... More division, more bigotry, less understanding ... just plain more nastiness. That's why ad hominems are so NASTY. They promote NASTINESS.. you see. We should try to avoid nastiness, in my opinion.

Here are some of what the Bible has to say about false teachers, who use the word of God for personal gain: (...)

Well, people who engage in FALSEHOODS are not nice. OK.. granted.

I guess if I am being lumped in with people who promote FALSEHOODS, that's another strike against me.. and ALL ATHEISTS. Small comment, BIG HONKING consequences.

But should we just ASSUME that whoever doesn't agree with someone is saying something FALSE?.. Don't we have to PROVE that there is a falsehood BEFORE accusing ?

The Bible says nasty things about people who don't hold to the beliefs promoted in the Bible. People like me. I suppose ANY outsider to the faith could be insulted by this statement:

Apparently, I'm a the very LEAST, a fool.

"The fool says in his heart, "There is no God." They are corrupt, their deeds are vile; there is no one who does good."
- Psalm 14:1

According to this biblical passage, as an outsider to your faith, not only am I a fool, but also corrupt, all of my deeds are vile, and I do not do good.

As far as ad hominen arguments go, this one would be right on top of that hill of slings and arrows against me. And that would be ME, personally. I take personal offense to that. And so should EVERY outsider to this particular "TRUE" faith.
I do NOT take that Bible verse as very WISE.. but rather nasty.

Ad hominem arguments do nothing to help make a case, and they are NASTY.
As an atheist, I would like an apology.

[Talishi]

Apparently, I'm a the very LEAST, a fool.

"The fool says in his heart, "There is no God." They are corrupt, their deeds are vile; there is no one who does good."
- Psalm 14:1

As far as ad hominen arguments go, this one would be right on top of that hill of slings and arrows against me.

Consider that the passage does not really refer to atheists being fools for their atheism, but refers to miscreants being foolish by discounting the judgment of God as though they were atheists. If you see that the claim is not fully reversible as many make it out to be, then you can see it for what it is: a foolish attack.

[Blastcat]

[Replying to post 33 by Talishi]

"The fool says in his heart, "There is no God." They are corrupt, their deeds are vile; there is no one who does good."
- Psalm 14:1

As far as ad hominen arguments go, this one would be right on top of that hill of slings and arrows against me.

Consider that the passage does not really refer to atheists being fools for their atheism, but refers to miscreants being foolish by discounting the judgment of God as though they were atheists. If you see that the claim is not fully reversible as many make it out to be, then you can see it for what it is: a foolish attack.

I take all ad hominem arguments as foolish attacks.
Im going to mull over that logic though.. As an atheist, I think that I'm being insulted aren't I?. Hard to tell, really, but that's what it seems to me. A fool is an atheist and an atheist is a fool. ( but the statement does seem to rely on mind reading. I say in my HEART that there is no God? )

The one we are talking about seems to be IRONICALLY foolish. Accusing others of being foolish by way of a foolish statement, is "doubling down" on the foolishness.

I think if I used this new word... we could agree that the passage seems to be a "Trumpism".

[Tired of the Nonsense]

[center]Atheism: the art of defying logic, reason and commonsense[/center]

Just curious E.G. Is Islam the art of defying logic, reason and commonsense? What about Hinduism? Buddhism?

[Danmark]

So, the question is, if that is how it came about, what would stop this phenomenon from happening again? And what could be the results? A major explosion covering the entire universe? This appears to contradict having an order in the universe as many scientists have testified. If we (the human species) were a product of such a disorderly "Big Bang", how come then we always seek harmony and order for our lives? (Common sense).

No, the question is, how could you come up with such ridiculous assumptions about people you haven't met, based on what? Your claim that those you've met fit into these categories you've made?

One of the problems with this absurd scenario of yours is that it seems to assume that everyone is born a believer in your favorite religion until they rebel from it in ways you project onto others.

You have presented no evidence, either for your beliefs in what are clearly the product of nothing but imagination and tradition, or for your simplistic projection of your own thoughts onto others.

Most atheists who were formerly Christians simply grew out of their childish beliefs because of their continuing education. This is almost solely a private, solitary experience, because most of their friends and the tradition they grew up with provide the inertia and the comfort to continue to pretend to believe what they were taught.

Perhaps you are correct, for some atheists, but I have met none, not one, that fits any of your categories.

[Danmark]

"The fool says in his heart, "There is no God."

This is nothing more than the ancient art of name calling. What it really says is
"Anyone who disagrees with me is a fool."

The author of such a statement would be issued a warning on this site for breaking forum rules.

[Danmark]

[Replying to post 31 by E.G]

The problem with this sermon is that it assumes the Bible is authority for an argument. That only works in church, not on this forum.

Please consider the Guidelines for the C&A Forum:

1. We are debating Christianity, pro and con, for and against, not debating with the assumption that Christianity is true. Please realize that people on the forum are from all worldview backgrounds and do not necessarily share the same assumptions.

2. Avoid using the Bible as the sole source to prove that Christianity is true. However, using the Bible as the only source to argue what is authentic Christianity is legitimate.

3. For factual claims like the existence of individuals, places, and events, the Bible can be considered as providing evidence, but not necessarily conclusive evidence.

4. Unsupported Bible quotations are to be considered as no more authoritative than unsupported quotations from any other book.

5. Please avoid "preaching" and using the forum as simply a way to blast people with the gospel message. This is a debating forum, not a convenient place to overtly proselytize.
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... php?t=9741

[Danmark]

[Replying to Divine Insight]

Divine Insight wrote:

1. Supposedly humans are all sinners who have turned against God and lust to do evil things.

Respectfully and totally disagree, and right here, where the discussion needs to have facts injected into it.

When we examine the realty of our world today, or throughout the human history, what would be your answers to these questions?

Politicians, would you say most of them are honest?
Presidents and kings, can you say most of them have been good and diligently work for the good of their people?
....

No, but according to the Bible, both Daniel and Romans tell us these leaders were put in their places of power by God. This supposed 'god' seems to favor those who are corrupt, dishonest, and do not work diligently for the good of their people.

If a rock landed on my head rendering my brains jumbled sufficiently to believe in a god, I hope I would choose one who favors wise leaders who are good people, not the collection of misfits and misanthropes your God supposedly sets up... sometimes.

I will say, he occasionally (according to Bible theory) "she" picks someone good, well educated, thoughtful, and well spoken like Barak Obama. Other times this god of yours gives us Hitlers or threatens us with Trump.

[Talishi]

I will say, he occasionally (according to Bible theory) "she" picks someone good, well educated, thoughtful, and well spoken like Barak Obama. Other times this god of yours gives us Hitlers or threatens us with Trump.

Other times they drop the pretense that God picks our Presidents and say God threatens America with judgment if we the people pick Clinton.