What is Love?

[KingandPriest]

This topic is vitally important to those who accept and maintain a belief in Jesus Christ. As such, the topic of love must be understood before one can even attempt to understand or know God.

So in short, I ask:

I. Non-theistic definition of what is love?
or
Theistic definition of what is love?

II. What is the greatest expression of love one can have for another?

[Kenisaw]

Why does the question of love include so much vitriol from non-theists?

Because of the inaccurate way you define it I suppose, and the fact that you think some baseless being is responsible for it. Maybe it's because so many Christians think it is an objective thing when it is a constantly changing, subjective concept. Who knows exactly.

Why is the first reaction of providing one's own definition of love, come along with disdain and hate towards the expression of love found in the bible?

You even have a Christian in this thread saying that the killings of your god's son is nonsense because there is no trinity. Why don't you cultists get your 20,000 sects together and figure out what is what before you worry about what atheists think...

Can a person describe love without attacking Christianity?

Can a Christian define love without crediting a baseless creature for inventing it?

I never provided a definition for what is love. I only posed the question.

Nor did you comment on what I said. Deflection noted.

I have found the responses interesting because in the response to the question: What is Love?, I see a lot of hate.

Interesting that you can define hate so easily...

[marco]

I have found the responses interesting because in the response to the question: What is Love?, I see a lot of hate.

The only hate in the discussion on love is in the line: God so loved the world that he sent his only son to die and the hatred, disguised thinly as love, comes from the being worshipped as God.

If irony there is, it is quoting this line and associating it with the highest form of love. Humble man through the centuries has demonstrated acts of love of the highest order, without the assistance of immortality, omniscience and omnipotence. Man has shown acts of great cruelty as well, often when he's working for his God.

It may well be said that love has nothing whatsoever to do with the God.

[theStudent]

[Replying to post 25 by marco]

Are you actually arguing AGAINST the love of God? God acts in precisely the way you describe, and you rhetorically ask - has this person love?

No, absolutely not.
God acts in this loving way.
1. Acting in behalf of the innocent.
e.g. - As the barbaric animal of a man tried to take the innocent little girl, the father, with the skills he had gained through years of pitching a ball at speeds of 90 mph, threw the wrench, striking the assailant in the head.
2. Punishing evil doers.
e.g. - He caused fire and sulphur to rain down on their heads.

Notice - Not taking advantage of, and torturing, or preying upon the innocent.

[theStudent]

[Replying to post 27 by Kenisaw]

He has love for his aging mother and two kids. And possibly a case of schitzoprenia.

Okay, I can accept that he could do with a nice room with a bed, and loving nurses and orderlies in close proximity... and no scissors or sharp edged tools.

Or a disassociation disorder. But it doesn't mean he doesn't have love.

Point taken. That's understandable.

Does a bomber pilot who dropped bombs on Dresden and set it ablaze and then went home and tucked his kids into bed and held his wife tenderly have love? How about a cop that kills a suspect getting ready to shoot him and then visits his grandmother for a few hours in a nursing home? The world isn't so simple as you like it to be...

They feel they have a sense of duty to protect their country and fellow citizens, but I was refering to harming the innocent or non aggressors. Sorry for not being specific.
I understand your point.

Love is a human concept, and it used to group similarly defined things together. Like pretty or ugly or good or evil, it's not an objective thing. It's an idea.

I understand how you view it.

The same way they don't find everything pretty, or ugly, or good, or bad. It isn't an objective, all encompassing thing.

Understood.

I agree, it is definitely dependent on how each person views it. Same for each culture and society as compared to other cultures and societies...

I understand what you are saying. I guess it is the same as everything in life... almost.
For example, everything, I'll use the term concept, had a source, but it is viewed differently through the passage of time, and various societies.
So pretty may have started out being viewed in one way, but the could be viewed differently over time, by various cultures.
I understand that.

Not sure I see how this proves your point. Did your brothers and sisters explain to those folks that pi does not equal 3?

Are you not going to remind me of what this pi not equal 3 thing is all about?

[marco]

God acts in this loving way.
Acting in behalf of the innocent.

Fantasy aside, if we form a character sketch of the God depicted in the OT we won't see much love. If he does act on someone's behalf it is through self-interest. He allows Job to be tortured and demands the death of innocent Isaac.

In the real world, when people in desperate situations have begged for help God is beautifully silent, as in the Holocaust when his chosen people were being massacred. It takes immense skill to extract a message of love from one of almighty brutality, but some people miraculously manage it. What a work of art is man!

[theStudent]

[Replying to post 35 by marco]

I understand what you say, but I have been through that before.
Remember the father that alliowed his son to go through a painful operation for the child's well being? That's definitely a loving father, wouldn't you agree?

[OnceConvinced]

You can't [command a husband to love his wife and vice versa.] It's not possible to command someone to love another.

I can see how someone who regards love as little more than you make me feel good

Talk about deliberately mispresenting me. You are so downplaying what I clam love to be.

Love is a strong feeling of emotion, of desire, compassion, empathy, wanting whats best for another person. Its not necessarily about feeling good at all. Love can be heartbreaking thing.

would say that an arranged marriage begins as a loveless marriage.

Of course it starts out as loveless. You dont just wave a magic want and create feelings of love.

The ancient and modern Middle Eastern mind doesnt see love that way. They see love as action " bringing home the bacon for one while s/he cooks it for the other. Its being kind in spite of the fact that one might not know the other too well.

As I have already pointed out. You can do loving actions and still hate a person.

The feelings come but they begin w/the actions.

I doubt that very much. If they were being abused or mistreated, what makes you think that any amount of loving actions is going to result in loving feelings?

In your mindset, you can have actions that masquerade as love

Of course you can. We see this all the time.

but you cannot have love w/o the requisite actions that people call loving.

Not sure what you are trying to say here. I say that if you love someone, then you will want to perform loving actions.

Just look at John 3:16. Biblical proof that the feelings come first. God so loved the world THAT he gave his son. It was the action that came as a result of the love.

IMO, it is a shallow, vapid love which says, I love you because of how you make and have made me feel.

It probably is if its all words and no actions. Love should motivate a person to perform loving actions.

That's not true. There are many circumstances where you can love someone but be in no position to provide loving actions. I have been in that situation before.

How can you love someone but not want to provide loving actions to evince that love?

I said you were in NO POSITION. So circumstances are such that loving actions cannot be performed. Eg the person is a long distance away or the person that you love refuses to have anything to do with you or that person does not want love from you.

However actions alone do not prove you love someone.

Yup " but you dont love someone if you arent doing those things or at least wanting to do them if some extenuating circumstance keeps you from doing them.

Love does not need actions for it to be there. One can want to do actions but that doesnt mean its possible for them to do it as in the examples I gave earlier. And what if you secretly love the person but are afraid to show your love in case that person rejects you? That is a very common thing.

]

And what if you are far from that person and cannot perform those actions?

Then you have to at least want to do them. That is an extenuating circumstance.

Of course you want to. The emotion drives you. It makes you want.

In a situation where one can feel love for someone but not be able to perform actions, the love exists there! They WANT to. Thats because of the emotion of love they feel. It doesn't mean they CAN though.

God loved the whole world. He loved it, JLB. He loved it so much he took an action and that was to send his son. The verse does not say "God sent his only son so that he could love us." He loved us FIRST! The action came second.

[JLB32168]

Love is a strong feeling of emotion, of desire, compassion, empathy, wanting whats best for another person.

Is wanting the best for someone whom you dont really know very well yet not love? That is what you suggested.

Of course it starts out as loveless. You dont just wave a magic want and create feelings of love.

Okay " so wanting the best for another person whom you might not know as well as fiancs know each other in the West doesnt demonstrate love. That means that you think your definition of love trumps others.

Why do you presume to hold your standard of love up as superior to other cultures idea of love?

As I have already pointed out. You can do loving actions and still hate a person.

You cannot love a person and refrain from doing loving actions.

I doubt [that the romantic feelings come, but they begin w/the actions in arranged marriages] very much. If they were being abused or mistreated, what makes you think that any amount of loving actions is going to result in loving feelings?

One would infer from your comments that all or at least most arranged marriages stay loveless (as you define the term love) and/or are abusive and remain that way. Dont you think thats a tad narrow-minded?

Love does not need actions for it to be there.

I think that love must have loving actions. If it doesnt then that love is lip-service. Even tough love is a loving action in that it attempts to ameliorate the character of the errant person. If ones spouse is in Iraq then one should at least desire to do loving actions.

He loved us FIRST! The action came second.

Did God love Adam before Adam was created? Did God love my children when I was ten " years before they were created?

Do all the people who work in a homeless shelter or in a shelter for battered women not love them?

You are holding your view of love up as the absolute standard. You dont get to be an atheist and do that w/o being accused of cultural imperialism.

[Bust Nak]

Why does the question of love include so much vitriol from non-theists?

Why is the first reaction of providing one's own definition of love, come along with disdain and hate towards the expression of love found in the bible?

Come on, you got lots of non-vitriol answers from us. You are generalising. The least you could do was use some qualifiers. i.e. why does the question of love sometimes include so much vitriol from non-theists? Or why does the question of love include so much vitriol from some non-theists?

Can a person describe love without attacking Christianity?

Look at this thread. What does the evidence say?

[JLB32168]

What is love?

Baby don't hurt me

Don't hurt me

No more

I don't know why you're not fair
I give you my love, but you don't care
So what is right and what is wrong?
Gimme a sign.