Why did Christ not indicate advances?

[marco]

A super-intelligent being walks around but doesn't correct misconceptions or scientific untruths. He sees lepers but doesn't suggest any cure, except prayer. He left it to other clever people to advance human knowledge.


Was he educated in anything but Scripture?

Did he know the Earth orbits the sun, and was he aware that imparting this simple fact would have saved lives?

Or was he just a preacher, rumoured to have healing powers?

[Tired of the Nonsense]

[Replying to post 39 by Tired of the Nonsense]

Jesus apparently talked a lot, but much of what he said went right over the heads of his followers. For example: (Sayings of Jesus taken from the Gospel of Thomas)

Don't forget the Last Supper in Gospel John.

Jesus was troubled in spirit and testified, “Very truly I tell you, one of you is going to betray me.�

22 His disciples stared at one another, at a loss to know which of them he meant. 23 One of them, the disciple whom Jesus loved, was reclining next to him. 24 Simon Peter motioned to this disciple and said, “Ask him which one he means.�

25 Leaning back against Jesus, he asked him, “Lord, who is it?�

26 Jesus answered, “It is the one to whom I will give this piece of bread when I have dipped it in the dish.� Then, dipping the piece of bread, he gave it to Judas, the son of Simon Iscariot. 27 As soon as Judas took the bread, Satan entered into him.

So Jesus told him, “What you are about to do, do quickly.� 28 But no one at the meal understood why Jesus said this to him. 29 Since Judas had charge of the money, some thought Jesus was telling him to buy what was needed for the festival, or to give something to the poor. 30 As soon as Judas had taken the bread, he went out. And it was night.

Wait...we're supposed to be believing these men, when they're recorded as saying Jesus did miracles and Jesus is most definitely the Son of God?
Apparently they have trouble parsing very simple accusations of betrayal!

But maybe that's the point. Because it gives the impression of possessing a mystical higher level of knowledge.

So basically...Jesus must have been Deepak Chopra in a previous life?

This has always seemed to me to be a hugely underappreciated point. According to the Gospels Jesus reprimanded his disciples repeatedly for not comprehending what he was telling them. Years after Jesus was dead this group relayed this poor understanding of what they understood of Jesus and his mission to still others, who passed along their understanding of Jesus to us in the form of the Gospels.

What we do not have is anything written by Jesus in his own hand to explain his mission and his intentions. An absolutely untenable flaw in God's master plan of offering salvation to humankind, which is what Christians would have us believe this all is. Which should be an obvious clue that none of this has anything to do with any divine Being. The clumsy nature of the story has human make believe written all over it.

[Zzyzx]

.

Superman, Thor, the other mythological gods, all of these things are more influential...

None of the books that contain words attributed to these fictional characters have sales that come anywhere near in the region of the bible.

Correction: Lists of the Best Selling Books do NOT contain the Bible.

Many copies of the Bible are printed because they are often given away – not sold. Circulation figures for many books could be greatly increased if they were also given away free.

None of these characters have major religions based on their words that have survived into this our 21st century.

Does this consider all of the world's 4000 religions – including Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, Shinto, LDS, Scientology, etc?

No one to the best of my knowledge have been willing to die in order to ensure that the words attributed to them be translated into the common languages of the day.

Who, exactly, was “ willing to die in order to ensure that the words attributed to them be translated into the common languages of the day�? References, citations?

Our present calander years are not based on the supposed era of their existence, and I don't recall any historians writing that they are arguably the most influential figures in human history.

The calendar presently used throughout much of the world is based on a calendar promoted by Roman officials (not religious characters) and pays tribute to many gods and to Roman officials.

Feel free to present factual evidence to the contrary.

Don't be confused by facts.

[JehovahsWitness]

.

Superman, Thor, the other mythological gods, all of these things are more influential...

None of the books that contain words attributed to these fictional characters have sales that come anywhere near in the region of the bible.

Correction: Lists of the Best Selling Books do NOT contain the Bible.

Many copies of the Bible are printed because they are often given away – not sold. Circulation figures for many books could be greatly increased if they were also given away free.

The familiar observation that the Bible is the best-selling book of all time obscures a more startling fact: the Bible is the best-selling book of the year, every year. Calculating how many Bibles are sold in the United States is a virtually impossible task, but a conservative estimate is that in 2005 Americans purchased some twenty-five million Bibles—twice as many as the most recent Harry Potter book. The amount spent annually on Bibles has been put at more than half a billion dollars.

Read full article
http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2006/ ... k-business

[JehovahsWitness]

Our present calander years are not based on the supposed era of their existence.

The calendar presently used throughout much of the world is based on a calendar promoted by Roman officials (not religious characters) and pays tribute to many gods and to Roman officials.

Common Era or Current Era, abbreviated CE, is a calendar era that is often used as an alternative naming of the Anno Domini era ("in the year of the Lord"), abbreviated AD. The system uses BCE as an abbreviation for "before the Common (or Current) Era" and CE as an abbreviation for "Common Era". The CE/BCE designation uses the same numeric values as the Anno Domini year-numbering system introduced by the 6th-century Christian monk Dionysius Exiguus, intending the beginning of the life of Jesus to be the reference date. Neither notation includes a year zero, and the two notations (CE/BCE and AD/BC) are numerically equivalent

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Era

[Zzyzx]

.

The familiar observation that the Bible is the best-selling book of all time obscures a more startling fact: the Bible is the best-selling book of the year, every year.

Read full article
http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2006/ ... k-business

From your source

Calculating how many Bibles are sold in the United States is a virtually impossible task, but a conservative estimate is . . . .
http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2006/ ... k-business

Bold added

Organizations that report publishers actual figures:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_b ... ling_books
http://www.listchallenges.com/101-best- ... f-all-time
http://www.ranker.com/list/best-selling ... me/jeff419
http://www.goodreads.com/list/show/3393 ... f_All_Time
http://top101news.com/2015-2016-2017-20 ... ime-world/
http://bookriot.com/2015/01/18/bestsell ... wikipedia/

Religious books and others like "Don Quixote," "Les Miserables" and "Pride and Prejudice" have not been including due to non-availability of accurate sales figures.
http://www.msn.com/en-us/lifestyle/shop ... ss-AAiMgIw

Bold added

Thus, the claim 'Best selling book of all time' is based on bogus / estimated / imaginary numbers.

[JehovahsWitness]

Thus, the claim 'Best selling book of all time' is based on bogus / estimated / imaginary numbers.

Guinness World Records: "Although it is impossible to obtain exact figures, there is little doubt that the Bible is the world's best-selling and most widely distributed book. A survey by the Bible Society concluded that around 2.5 billion copies were printed between 1815 and 1975, but more recent estimates put the number at more than 5 billion."
http://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/wor ... n-fiction/

Huffington Post: The Bible is the biggest bestseller in history.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/07/3 ... 64029.html


The New Yorker: The familiar observation that the Bible is the best-selling book of all time obscures a more startling fact: the Bible is the best-selling book of the year, every year. Calculating how many Bibles are sold in the United States is a virtually impossible task, but a conservative estimate is that in 2005 Americans purchased some twenty-five million Bibles—twice as many as the most recent Harry Potter book. The amount spent annually on Bibles has been put at more than half a billion dollars.
http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2006/ ... k-business

Wikipedia: According to Guinness World Records, the Bible is the best-selling book of all time with over 5 billion copies sold and distributed.

[JehovahsWitness]

Who, exactly, was willing to die in order to ensure that the words attributed to them be translated into the common languages of the day? References, citations?

The Lollards: With the help of his associates, particularly Nicholas of Hereford, [John Wycliffe] produced the first complete Bible in the English language. It was undoubtedly Wycliffe's greatest contribution to mankind’s search for God. [...] Because of his prominence among the ruling and scholarly classes, Wycliffe was allowed to die in peace on the last day of 1384. His followers were less fortunate. During the reign of Henry IV of England, they were branded as heretics, and many of them were imprisoned, tortured, or burned to death.

Alfonso de Zamora: (Complutensian Polyglot in 1522) We request and beg that Your Holiness help us . . . and preserve us from our enemy the bishop of Toledo, Don Juan Tavera. Every day, without letup, he causes us numerous, unpleasant afflictions. . . . We certainly find ourselves in great anguish, since we are just like beasts for the slaughter house in his eyes.- Appeal to Pope Sixtus.

William Tyndale: "In 1523, Tyndale moved to London with the intention of translating the New Testament into English, an act that was strictly forbidden. [...] . He was arrested for heresy by imperial authorities and imprisoned for over 500 days in Vilvoorde Castle. On 6 October 1536, Tyndale was tried and convicted of heresy and treason and put to death by being strangled and burned at the stake."
http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/people/william_tyndale/

Francisco de Enzinas was imprisoned by the Catholic Inquisition (after 1544) for translating and publishing the Christian Greek Scriptures in Spanish - w97 10/1 p. 13 par 1

Casiodoro de Reina. 1562 Despite having a price on his head and living in constant fear of arrest, he worked incessantly on his Spanish translation. Reina's version was published in 1569 and was revised by Cipriano de Valera in 1602. - g11 07 p. 13

Robert Morrison secretly began to translate the Bible in Canton, China, in 1807 ... Morrison had some knowledge of Chinese but needed further help with the language. Such help was not readily available, for translating the Bible into Chinese was a hazardous undertaking, punishable by death. Yet Morrison succeeded in getting the help of two Chinese scholars. One of them was so fearful of being apprehended and then put to death by slow torture that he carried poison in order to take his own life should he be caught. w74 12/15 p. 744

[marco]

[quote="[url=http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/


I have to be honest here. This stuff is ether way too deep, or far too obscure to make any sense to me either. But maybe that's the point. Because it gives the impression of possessing a mystical higher level of knowledge. But the fact of the matter is, sometimes nonsense is simply nonsense. It's a way of speaking while giving the impression that something vitally, mystically, important is being imparted, without actually advancing the cause of knowledge in the slightest.

An accurate observation, TotN. Oscar Wilde was a master of saying seemingly great thoughts, but I think he knew what he was about. In the comic opera, HMS Pinafore, Buttercup pours out a stream of proverbs and the Captain's reaction is like yours: "I don't see at what you're driving, mystic lady."

In the case of Christ it seems incumbent on us to TRY and understand what the chat is all about and in consequence we have a variety of Christian religions. Even the simple words: "You''ll be with me in paradise today," can be rendered useful for some offshoot faith by having Christ say: "It's today I'm speaking - you'll be with me in paradise - sometime."

[marco]

The Lollards .... Alfonso de Zamora .... William Tyndale ....Francisco de Enzinas Casiodoro de Reina .....Robert Morrison

This illustrates how Christianity has its savage face. Protestants also burned Catholics. That people are willing to die for what they believe does not render their belief true. Look at the suicide bombers today, dying for a beautiful truth.

[marco]

It's strange, isn't it? To be using the argument from popularity, but not as a representative of the most popular denomination of the religion.

The principle of inclusion is useful when arguing in this fashion; all Christians are brothers and sisters. All bibles say the same thing. There is a different argument on Monday from the one on Tuesday.

The Koran, one way or another, will soon outsell the Bible. I imagine that the odd copy of a bible will be kept in a museum somewhere, but that will depend on the grace of Allah.

Christ did speak of false prophets, but gave no names, so he might well have been talking about Paul, or the founders of modern branches of Christianity. It seems he spent too much time whipping fig trees and not enough in giving people some learned instruction. But then maybe he had none to give, except to say that camels come before Rockefellers in heaven's queue.