Other religions..

[Elijah John]

For debate, (addressed primarily to Theists) :

Do you see other religions, (and people who practice other religions) as enemies? Competitors? Or allies in the quest to bring people to God and His ways?

[Monta]

[Replying to Blastcat]

I like learning about the practices of other religions. How well these may connect me with the sacred.

Only this morning I was thinking how fascinating it would be visiting a Hindu heaven with all their spiritual traditions etc.
Swedenborg says that heavens are different for different faiths and very different all the way from the most ancient people (they still live in huts) to today.

[Blastcat]

[Replying to post 29 by dio9]


[center]
Fallacious Religious Reasoning:
Mistaking beliefs for truth[/center]

I like learning about the practices of other religions.

So do I.
It connects me with something that I like to call knowledge.
Different cultures are fascinating to learn about.. and there are SO many varieties of religious experiences.

When I learn about some new fangled religious idea... I learn more about how PEOPLE think than anything about what they happen to believe about is true. And I really don't have the time of day for things that we cannot hope to demonstrate are true. I mean, what's the point?

There is PLENTY enough to learn about IN reality.. but we all need a break from time to time.. fantasy is FUN and entertaining, right?

Some people, however, spend WAY too much time enjoying their favorite fantasies... IN my humble opinion, religions ENCOURAGE "living the dream".

But do you imagine that what people from other religions believe is TRUE?
How do we get from BELIEF to TRUE ?

ANY belief?
That would include YOUR religious beliefs.. Is a belief that something is true a guarantee that it is?

How well these may connect me with the sacred.

It would be great if you could explain what you mean by "sacred".
Do you mean the fetishes that people TAKE as sacred?

Like statues of other gods, and gods on a cross?

I have previously asked you a question in that regard that you haven't answered, so, I don't know what you think about it:

Are you studying their opinions or their facts?
Are religious beliefs opinions or facts?

You didn't say.



P.S.

I would appreciate when someone replies to something that I wrote, that I KNEW what the heck they are referring to. That's why I quote people, for example. So that they know exactly what I am referring to.. Blastcat no like GUESSING.

[Elijah John]

[Replying to Blastcat]

I like learning about the practices of other religions. How well these may connect me with the sacred.

And I like this attitude. I agree we can learn from all the great religions*...at the very least to see how the working of the Almighty is not constrained in any one theolology, religion or denomination.

And to learn from the spiritual practices and disciplines of the great religions, to enchance our own spiritual excersize(s)and experience.

The Spirit like the wind, goes where He will, and is not at our beck and call alone.

(* which is not to say that all religions are the same, or of equal value..as some exclusivists charge against those of us who hold this more universal understanding of God's working. )

[dio9]

[Replying to post 32 by Blastcat]

I thought everybody knew what sacred was . Sacred means holy as associated with divinity. Inspiring awe and reverence. Not intentionally set apart but hidden , not obvious. (wiki...)
I am using it an an generic for God.
World religions mostly confirm my own realizations. Confirming my insights from meditation and prayer. I am not alone in the nature of my encounter with the sacred. At the end of the day each world religion in its way affirms what I inherently know is true.

[Blastcat]

[Replying to post 33 by Elijah John]

The Spirit like the wind, goes where He will, and is not at our beck and call alone.

So, yeah, I get that we have all kinds of METAPHORS for what the "Spirit" is.. but really.

What the heck IS "The Spirit"?

You talk as if it was MORE than a metaphor.

[Elijah John]

[Replying to post 33 by Elijah John]

The Spirit like the wind, goes where He will, and is not at our beck and call alone.

So, yeah, I get that we have all kinds of METAPHORS for what the "Spirit" is.. but really.

What the heck IS "The Spirit"?

You talk as if it was MORE than a metaphor.

The wind is the metaphor, the Spirit is literal to us believers. And on this forum, we don't have to prove that.

[dio9]

[Replying to post 35 by Blastcat]

About this let me try to say what it is with another analogy ; if the universe is a physical body , the mind is its spirit.

[Blastcat]

[Replying to post 34 by dio9]



[center]The sacred and the profane[/center]

I thought everybody knew what sacred was .

I kinda know what the word means.. people take some ideas.. as super-duper extra special. Right? Some people get upset and kill over what they consider sacred...

Sacred means holy as associated with divinity.

ok.. I can look up words in a dictionary, but really, people use words, especially when discussing theology.. in all kinds of ways. So I have to ask each and everyone what they MEAN by this or that word.. because not everyone uses the same words to mean the same thing.

It gets REALLY complicated.. and I should NEVER assume that I know how the heck people MEAN by these words. Thanks for the clarification.

Inspiring awe and reverence. Not intentionally set apart but hidden , not obvious. (wiki...)

As an atheist, I have awe and reverence for lots of things.. not needing a god.. so.. divine means from god.. so... I don't know what youre talking about.

It's October.. you know what I like to do? .. I go BAREFOOT in the back yard.. and it's cold and damp.. And I look up late at night.. around midnight.. and look at the three stars called "Orion's belt" and that wonderful DOG star.. Sirius.. and I get chills, chills because it's chilly. and chills because that's AWESOME.

Yeah, and the barefoot thing is a bit of a ritual with me.. it "connects" me , or "grounds" me to nature.. It's a THING.. and as an atheist, I have no problem saying that it's spiritual.

But my "spiritual" doesn't include a thing called a "god". It's purely me, facing THAT... and THAT is big.. and it's awesome, and I'm small.

Secular spirituality exists..

I am using it an an generic for God.

I have no idea what you mean by the word "God". I could guess.. Maybe the word "God" is sacred.. but that just sounds circular.

Sure.. as an atheist, I can freak people out by using the term "God"..
What I mean by it.. well.... not many theists EVER ask me that.

World religions mostly confirm my own realizations.

What realizations are those, I wonder?
Something true about reality, or something true about your thoughts about reality?

Confirming my insights from meditation and prayer. I am not alone in the nature of my encounter with the sacred. At the end of the day each world religion in its way affirms what I inherently know is true.

It really must be a great thing to not feel alone.

Could you explain what it means to say "I inherently know is true"?
Not too sure what that means. Is is possible, for example, for you to be inherently mistaken about what you think is true ?

"True for a person" is subjective truth.. "true for EVERYONE" is objective truth.. which kind of truth are you describing?

[dio9]

[Replying to Blastcat]

I would say the experience you describe the chill standing in the yard looking at the stars is sacred .

We inherently have a nature to sense such , a sixth sense .

Perhaps I should have said , major world religions agree on certain good things.

[Blastcat]

[Replying to post 36 by Elijah John]

The wind is the metaphor, the Spirit is literal to us believers. And on this forum, we don't have to prove that.

You misunderstand my question.

I would like to know WHAT the "spirit" is.. you gave us a metaphor FOR the "spirit".. but not an actual definition OF the spirit.

Nice metaphor, the wind.
But what is the spirit?

Another metaphor?
Would then wind then be a metaphor for a metaphor?

I've never actually encountered a definition for "spirit" that you might take as an objective fact that WASN'T metaphorical, like "life", or "breath", and so on, if you see what I mean.

We KNOW that wind or breath or life is.. ( ok, life is a big concept ) but to an OUTSIDER... your metaphor still leaves me guessing. Nice poetry.. but I still don't know what this spirit is supposed to BE.

I'm not at all asking you to prove that the spirit is a real thing.. I would JUST like to know what you MEAN when you say spirit. From my perspective, it sounds like Christians use the word to mean... a feeling.. Forget that... "literal existence" for a while, let's all assume that the "spirit " exists..

So, if the spirit exists ... WHAT is it?