Other religions..

[Elijah John]

For debate, (addressed primarily to Theists) :

Do you see other religions, (and people who practice other religions) as enemies? Competitors? Or allies in the quest to bring people to God and His ways?

[Blastcat]

[Replying to post 39 by dio9]




[center]Fallacious Religious Reasoning;
Assuming that they are comprehensible to outsiders [/center]

I would say the experience you describe the chill standing in the yard looking at the stars is sacred .

We inherently have a nature to sense such , a sixth sense .

Perhaps I should have said , major world religions agree on certain good things.

I have no idea what "sixth sense" you are talking about.

I see and feel that back yard experience.. I even smell the air.. then, I have emotional reactions that are pleasant. It's like eating a bowl of chocolate ice cream at 3 am... I call that PLEASURE.

Is pleasure what you mean by 6th sense?
Is the feeling of AWE and WONDER what you mean by 6th sense?

I know full well what the 5 senses are and what I can observe with them. I have no idea what I can "observe" or HOW I can observe with what you claim is a 6th sense.

Since you say that the sacred has to do with the DIVINE.. my back yard experience cannot be sacred. Nice try.. but I don't believe in any DEOS....

Religious terminology is SO vague as to mean just about anything. But to the outsider.. so far, at least for this outsider, nothing at all meaningful.

Many people can agree about something that just might be completely WRONG.
It would be good to at least know what they are talking about though...

[Peds nurse]

[Replying to post 27 by Blastcat]

Hey Blastcat!

So, what do you think, BC? Do you think that us theists just randomly point to a God and blindly follow? Do you not think that indeed we HAVE looked at the facts? We have (or at least me), read the Bible, we have put to the test God's promises. What facts do we need that would appease your request?

[dio9]

[Replying to Blastcat]

The sixth sense is understood in Buddhist and Vedanta circles to be the mind .

please don't ask me to define what the mind is.

[Blastcat]

[Replying to post 42 by Peds nurse]


[center]

Fallacious Religious Reasoning;
Trouble distinguishing fact from opinion[/center]

So, what do you think, BC? Do you think that us theists just randomly point to a God and blindly follow?

I have no real idea, P.
You tell me.

Do you not think that indeed we HAVE looked at the facts?

I'm asking in order to GET the answer.. I'm not presuming anything, Peds.
What facts are you talking about?

We have (or at least me), read the Bible, we have put to the test God's promises. What facts do we need that would appease your request?

Peds, please, play nice.
I don't demand to be APPEASED.. I'm not like some angry god....
What I've been asking folks in here is "Do you believe in an opinion or a fact"?

Tell me if you need an explanation for what I mean by "opinion" or "fact".
You say you read the Bible... and in your OPINION, it's true.

What, if any are the FACTS that you believe in?


It seems to me that Christians and theists in general have a REAL HARD time understanding my questions... I wonder why that is?

Maybe you could start by telling me if you see a difference between opinions and facts? If so, could you spell it out, because right now.. I think we aren't understanding each other... like we talk TWO different kinds of English.

And yet, these are pretty normal words...

When I ask for facts, if you have them.. it's either you have them or not.. but you answer by way of a QUESTION... what KIND of facts would I like, you ask ? Well, if you HAVE facts, let's HAVE them.. If all you have are opinions, fine. Right now, I just don't SEE any facts, because you aren't PRESENTING us with any.

You asked me a rhetorical question.. Do I think that you HAVEN'T looked for facts?... well, ok, maybe you HAVE looked, and then FOUND facts.. fine, fine.

I'm asking WHAT ARE THEY?

[Blastcat]

[Replying to post 37 by dio9]


[center]
Fallacious Religious Reasoning;
Using a vague statement to explain another vague statement[/center]

About this let me try to say what it is with another analogy ; if the universe is a physical body , the mind is its spirit.

Yeah, another analogy... to explain an analogy about a metaphor that you believe in.. great !! Thanks for the poetry.. it's all very nice.

What does it MEAN?

1. How is the universe anything like a human body?
2. What mind are you talking about.. human minds?

[Peds nurse]

[Replying to post 44 by Blastcat]

I didn't mean to offend you BC. I really didn't. It is however a little insulting, intended or not, to think that we randomly believe in things without cause.

I know this thread isn't about evolution. In the Bible there is creation. If we look at the facts, scientists will confirm that there is no scientific evidence of any situation where order comes from chaos. A big bang is chaos...and somehow, there becomes order? What are the chances of that? If we put pieces of a watch in a bag, and shake it up, will we have a watch when we open the bag?

I will use this quote, for it is my fact for believing in God.
"The mathematical probability that all order came from chaos requires as much if not more faith than considering or believing it was created."

[Blastcat]

[Replying to post 46 by Peds nurse]



[center]Fallacious Religious Reasoning:
Poorly defined terms[/center]

I didn't mean to offend you BC. I really didn't.

None taken.
I was just wondering about the use of the word "appease".
I don't need to be appeased. I am not a bloodthirsty god, or a wild animal.
Meow.

It is however a little insulting, intended or not, to think that we randomly believe in things without cause.

Stop thinking it then.

If I made a mistake, allow me to correct it.
But I cannot correct OR defend myself if I don't know what it is you are talking about.

Perhaps you can quote the offending passage..

I know this thread isn't about evolution.

Right... a little "hors d'oeuvre before the main course, shall we?

In the Bible there is creation.

Now, that's a fact.
A well known fact.

I can go read the Bible.. yep.. There's a creation story on page 1.

If we look at the facts, scientists will confirm that there is no scientific evidence of any situation where order comes from chaos.

That's factually wrong, Peds.
Chaos theory explains how order can come from chaos in DETAIL.

"Under the right conditions, chaos will spontaneously evolve into a lockstep pattern. In the Kuramoto model, four conditions suffice to produce synchronization in a chaotic system. Examples include the coupled oscillation of Christiaan Huygens' pendulums, fireflies, neurons, the London Millennium Bridge resonance, and large arrays of Josephson junctions"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaos_the ... eous_order

A big bang is chaos...and somehow, there becomes order?

Yeah, isn't nature weird?

What are the chances of that?

1 in 1.
Or... 100% chances of that.

It happened 1 time in the 1 universe that we are in.

If we put pieces of a watch in a bag, and shake it up, will we have a watch when we open the bag?

We will have shook up pieces of a watch in a bag..
I'm NOT too sure that the universe is like pieces of watches in a bag.

Never heard of the P.O.T.U.S.I.A.B. or "Pieces Of The Universe Shook In A Bag" scientific theory.

I will use this quote, for it is my fact for believing in God.

How is a quote is a fact about "God" ?

"The mathematical probability that all order came from chaos requires as much if not more faith than considering or believing it was created."

Is that a fact, or an opinion?
Do you KNOW the difference between a fact and an opinion?

It really doesn't look like it, Peds.
If we don't understand each other's words... what's the point of debating them?

[Peds nurse]

[Replying to post 47 by Blastcat]

If we don't understand each other's words... what's the point of debating them?

Now there is a good point! So, I'm going to do a little soul searching, and find out exactly what I am doing wrong, so that you can understand me better.

[dio9]

[Replying to post 45 by Blastcat]

1. Think about it.
2. Talking about your mind. Don't know if this makes sense but you are the consciousness of the universe. One of many all be it but conscious just the same.

[Blastcat]

[Replying to post 49 by dio9]



[center]
Fallacious Religious Reasoning:
Thinking that poetry is philosophy. [/center]

1. Think about it.
2. Talking about your mind. Don't know if this makes sense but you are the consciousness of the universe. One of many all be it but conscious just the same.

I can assure you that I think about stuff.

I am aware that I am human.
I think.

I don't know anything about the "consciousness of the universe".
Sounds like poetry.

Are you going to write me a sonnet now?
I'm sorry, but I can't make sense out of what you are saying.

Poetry is nice.. I'm a poet.
I don't write poetry when I'm trying to explain complex philosophical ideas.

I have more respect for honest debate than that.