Thesis: The author of the Bible an d the One telling the story of creation is the God of Eternity, and He He permanently and eternally abides in a temple made without hands, and from His own temple, He spoke creation into existence by lifting up His voice of and from His own bodily form; Jesus Christ
Firstly, ALL scripture is authored by God. All writers wrote the scripture under or through the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. Therefore, if the Bible says it, God said it. If God said it, it is true whether we believe it or not.
Jesus said to the seventy : "he who heareth you, hearethh me." This was and is Jesus' attitude toward all of the scripture. Another example is found in John 5:45-47. Jesus said to the Jews who were persecuting Him "But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words? IOW's if you don't believe what God has said, then how can you believe what I am saying, I speak the words of God, because I am not only the son of man, but I AM also God.
All scripture are truly words spoken by God. Whenever the scriptures are quoted, God is the One that is heard.
Matt 22:31-32
But regarding the resurrection of the dead, have you not read what was spoken to you by God: 32I AM THE GOD OF ABRAHAM, AND THE GOD OF ISAAC, AND THE GOD OF JACOB? He (God) is not the God of the dead but of the living.
Job 3:23: Job sought the temple or tabernacle of God (fixed place where God resides), but could not find it, for it had not been revealed to him.
John 2:19-22: Jesus said He (His bodily form) was the temple of God. The temple made without hands.
Col 1:19: Jesus was eternally purposed to be the permanent and fixed dwelling of ALL the fullness of God
Col 2:9: Jesus is the permanent and eternal dwelling of ALL the fullness of God in bodily form (the resurrection and ascended Christ is the Glory of God that Moses saw the hinder parts of. Moses wrote about Him).
1 Cor 15:20-28, 27-28:P This is the depiction and description of who God is, in the end. God the Father subjected all things to the son of man (excepting Himself). After all His works were finished, the son, subjects himself in bodily form to God the Father, so God could be the ALL in ALL. This is the picture of who the God of eternity is. This is the God of the eternal day of creation; the true Sabbath day of God. The day that never ends.
Mark 2:27-28: For the above stated reason, this explains what Jesus meant when He said "man was not made for the Sabbath, but the Sabbath was made for man, therefore, the son of man, is Lord of the Sabbath.
Now, here is the thing: The author of the Bible and the One telling the story of His creation, is the eternal God depicted and described through the invisible thread of the Scriptures (I quoted enough to connect the dots, but many more scriptures lead to the same place because the Scriptures testify about the Glory of God: Jesus Christ).
Therefore, the Bible is written and God has spoken from His eternal place in Heaven. However, we still exist in the fullness of time of God's works. Even though He finished them before the foundation of the world.
If God finished His works before He made man (He did), then He spoke creation into existence from his place in eternity (He did), which is depicted in 1 Cor 15:20-28, 27-28 (it is, God eternally dwells in bodily form of the son of man, Jesus Christ).
We should now understand why Col 1:16-17 says all things were created by Him and through Him (God spoke creation by the voice and through the bodily form of Jesus Christ). God spoke creation into existence and the One who lifted up His voice is the One who is the ALL in ALL depicted in 1 Cor 15:27-28; All the fullness of God, eternally dwelling in the bodily form of His own Glory; Jesus Christ.
This means the voice that was heard at Jesus' baptism of John's baptism into repentance and at the transfiguration, came from God, the ALL in ALL. Why or how? Even before the foundation of the world, God finished all His works, therefore God is the God as depicted and described in 1 Cor 15:20-28, 27-28) that spoke creation into existence. He is also the only God that has ever spoken to man about who He is. He eternally abides in the bodily form of His own Glory; Jesus Christ.
This is the God of eternity and this is the only God that has ever spoken!
The God of Glory spoke creation into existence
Moderator: Moderators
Re: The God of Glory spoke creation into existence
Post #21[Replying to dio9]
Your assuming things that i did not state or imply. The Bible is the word of God. God is the author. The God of eternity is depicted and described in the scriptures and culminates with Him being in the bodily formof the son of man Jesus Christ. It is this God of eternity that speaks whenever and wherever God speaks. Nothing more, nothing less.
Your assuming things that i did not state or imply. The Bible is the word of God. God is the author. The God of eternity is depicted and described in the scriptures and culminates with Him being in the bodily formof the son of man Jesus Christ. It is this God of eternity that speaks whenever and wherever God speaks. Nothing more, nothing less.
Re: The God of Glory spoke creation into existence
Post #22[Replying to post 21 by B Bob]
Why does Christianity demand God can only be in the form of Jesus? Catholicism says God can speak through the Popes. Maybe some , I say , but not all. How about the famous protestant founders Luther Calvin Zwingli, who survived the fires of heresy. Was not the reformation God speaking ? or the great puritan awakening in America, was not God speaking there?
Your post makes me think God stopped speaking with Jesus.
I'm sure there is much more God wanted to say through him , but well, we know what happened. Was God silenced at his death? Did God have nothing more to say than love your neighbor as yourself? Surely God can continue to teach us something about charity fairness integrity honor wisdom purity peace thrift honesty happiness today. Ya think?
Why does Christianity demand God can only be in the form of Jesus? Catholicism says God can speak through the Popes. Maybe some , I say , but not all. How about the famous protestant founders Luther Calvin Zwingli, who survived the fires of heresy. Was not the reformation God speaking ? or the great puritan awakening in America, was not God speaking there?
Your post makes me think God stopped speaking with Jesus.
I'm sure there is much more God wanted to say through him , but well, we know what happened. Was God silenced at his death? Did God have nothing more to say than love your neighbor as yourself? Surely God can continue to teach us something about charity fairness integrity honor wisdom purity peace thrift honesty happiness today. Ya think?
Re: The God of Glory spoke creation into existence
Post #23B Bob wrote: [Replying to post 4 by marco]
Read the scriptures. The physical body of Jesus is where all the fullness of God permanently abides.
If you don't believe the Bible was authored by God, fine, but I do. Therefore, my thesis is based on the word of God. Whether you believe it is trues or not is irrelevant to the truth. If God said it, it is true.
The Bible is supposed to have been INSPIRED not written by God. Had God written it, one would suppose there would be no inconsistencies. The best interpretation of the opening verses of Genesis is that it is figurative. The Christmas tale is obviously not factual but written to authenticate Jesus and give him divine credentials. It is lovely figurative language, with angels singing in Middle Eastern skies. Of course God may have a sense of humour.
You are entitled to your private opinion but the Bible doesn't support that opinion.
Re: The God of Glory spoke creation into existence
Post #24False! Let's take the book of Job for example. Yah tells Job that his friends are wrong. So any scripture with one of Job's friends speaking can NOT be taken as truth!B Bob wrote:
Firstly, ALL scripture is authored by God. All writers wrote the scripture under or through the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. Therefore, if the Bible says it, God said it. If God said it, it is true whether we believe it or not.
You have to be very careful of the context to determine if the speaker is speaking truth or not.
Your doctrine is false and caused many other false doctrines as a result. You are turning the canon itself into an idol.
You can take the words of the prophets as being directed by the Holy Spirit. That does not imply that ever word in the canon is to be taken as spoken by Yah. The Canon is just a collection of books considered to provide truth. That does not imply that every word is truth. It also does not imply that there are not other works not in the canon that do not also have truth from Yah as well.
The scribes that copied and the translators that translate it into another language are NOT controlled by the Holy Spirit so they can also add a layer of error.
Re: The God of Glory spoke creation into existence
Post #25The idea that Lucifer is the greatest of angels that sinned and took 1/3 of the angels into rebellion prior to Adam is pure Christian mythology spread into Christianity by Augustine. It is NOT in scripture!B Bob wrote:Lucifer and a third of the angels sinned against God prior to God placing Adam in the Garden.
The 1/3 of the 'stars of heaven' that get pulled down to earth by the tail of the dragon in Revelation is a future event during the tribulation and is a reference to the 'hosts of heaven' that are part of the pagan pantheon of the sun (god), the moon (goddess), the planets, the constellations and ALL THE HOST OF HEAVEN of the PAGAN PANTHEON.
People take a single verse totally out of context and assume it is referencing the myth they have been taught all their lives as if it was fact.
We only know of 204 angels that ever fell into error. The 'ben Elohyim' of Gen 6 that took wives that were bound in Tartarus according to Peter (2 Pet 2:4). Enoch tells us that was 200 angels. We also have the four angels bound at the Euphrates that also get let back out during the tribulation, that makes 204, not 1/3 of all angels.
Lucifer is specifically called 'a man' in the ONLY passage he is ever mentioned. It talks about his life, his death, his body being eaten by worms and his descent into hell were the dead kings in hell say 'Is this THE MAN ...'!
You are not taking scripture as truth. You are spreading the myths you have been taught as if they were truth when they are not even presented in scripture.
Re: The God of Glory spoke creation into existence
Post #26Only in the context of taking a day as a thousand years to Yah. In that case, yes we are in the 6th day of the week of 1000 year days right before the 1000 year Sabbath. But all of creation was in that 1st day of 1000 years so is NOT the creation week being 1000 year days.B Bob wrote: [Replying to post 8 by Talishi]
A creation day is not a 24 hour day. In fact, we are still living in the sixth day of creation.
But we are NOT coming up on the 1st Sabbath day. There are Sabbath days each week. There are Sabbath years ever 7th year. There are Jubilee Sabbath years every 50th year (after the 7th Sabbath year, ie 7x7+1). There there is the 1000 year Sabbath which is the Millennial kingdom.
Yah already rested from the 7th DAY of creation.
Ge 2:2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.
Re: The God of Glory spoke creation into existence
Post #27[quote="B Bob"]
Thesis: The author of the Bible an d the One telling the story of creation is the God of Eternity, and He He permanently and eternally abides in a temple made without hands, and from His own temple, He spoke creation into existence by lifting up His voice of and from His own bodily form; Jesus Christ
Firstly, ALL scripture is authored by God. All writers wrote the scripture under or through the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. Therefore, if the Bible says it, God said it. If God said it, it is true whether we believe it or not.
Jesus said to the seventy : "he who heareth you, hearethh me." This was and is Jesus' attitude toward all of the scripture. Another example is found in John 5:45-47. Jesus said to the Jews who were persecuting Him "But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words? IOW's if you don't believe what God has said, then how can you believe what I am saying, I speak the words of God, because I am not only the son of man, but I AM also God.
All scripture are truly words spoken by God. Whenever the scriptures are quoted, God is the One that is heard.
Matt 22:31-32
But regarding the resurrection of the dead, have you not read what was spoken to you by God: 32I AM THE GOD OF ABRAHAM, AND THE GOD OF ISAAC, AND THE GOD OF JACOB? He (God) is not the God of the dead but of the living.
Job 3:23: Job sought the temple or tabernacle of God (fixed place where God resides), but could not find it, for it had not been revealed to him.
John 2:19-22: Jesus said He (His bodily form) was the temple of God. The temple made without hands.
Col 1:19: Jesus was eternally purposed to be the permanent and fixed dwelling of ALL the fullness of God
Col 2:9: Jesus is the permanent and eternal dwelling of ALL the fullness of God in bodily form (the resurrection and ascended Christ is the Glory of God that Moses saw the hinder parts of. Moses wrote about Him).
1 Cor 15:20-28, 27-28:P This is the depiction and description of who God is, in the end. God the Father subjected all things to the son of man (excepting Himself). After all His works were finished, the son, subjects himself in bodily form to God the Father, so God could be the ALL in ALL. This is the picture of who the God of eternity is. This is the God of the eternal day of creation; the true Sabbath day of God. The day that never ends.
Mark 2:27-28: For the above stated reason, this explains what Jesus meant when He said "man was not made for the Sabbath, but the Sabbath was made for man, therefore, the son of man, is Lord of the Sabbath.
Now, here is the thing: The author of the Bible and the One telling the story of His creation, is the eternal God depicted and described through the invisible thread of the Scriptures (I quoted enough to connect the dots, but many more scriptures lead to the same place because the Scriptures testify about the Glory of God: Jesus Christ).
Therefore, the Bible is written and God has spoken from His eternal place in Heaven. However, we still exist in the fullness of time of God's works. Even though He finished them before the foundation of the world.
If God finished His works before He made man (He did), then He spoke creation into existence from his place in eternity (He did), which is depicted in 1 Cor 15:20-28, 27-28 (it is, God eternally dwells in bodily form of the son of man, Jesus Christ).
We should now understand why Col 1:16-17 says all things were created by Him and through Him (God spoke creation by the voice and through the bodily form of Jesus Christ). God spoke creation into existence and the One who lifted up His voice is the One who is the ALL in ALL depicted in 1 Cor 15:27-28; All the fullness of God, eternally dwelling in the bodily form of His own Glory; Jesus Christ.
This means the voice that was heard at Jesus' baptism of John's baptism into repentance and at the transfiguration, came from God, the ALL in ALL. Why or how? Even before the foundation of the world, God finished all His works, therefore God is the God as depicted and described in 1 Cor 15:20-28, 27-28) that spoke creation into existence. He is also the only God that has ever spoken to man about who He is. He eternally abides in the bodily form of His own Glory; Jesus Christ.
This is the God of eternity and this is the only God that has ever spoken![/qu
I'm afraid I can't quite agree with this. Your assumption is that God dictated the Bible word-for-word to purely passive scribes who wrote it down exactly as God dictated it. The fist problem I have with that is that at no place dos Scripture tell how it was written. The second problem I have is that the Bible contains about 100 major contradictions. For example, 2 Sam. 21:19 says that Elhanan killed Goliath of Gath. Now, the edition of teh Bible you may have may say that Elhanan killed the "brother of" Goliath, but that is a gloss by the translators. In point of fact, the original Hebrew simply says Elhanan killed Goliath of Gath. Let's take the Genesis account. In point of act, there are two contradictory accounts of creation here, one in Gen. 1 and another in Gen. 2. In Gen. 1, first animals, then man and woman together. In Gen. 2, first man, then animals, then woman. The linguistic styles of teh two chapters is also radically different. Probably Gen. 2 is the older of the two accounts. My position is that divinely inspired as the Bible may be, it is still the produce of a prescientific culture n therefore not a reliable source for cosmology.
Thesis: The author of the Bible an d the One telling the story of creation is the God of Eternity, and He He permanently and eternally abides in a temple made without hands, and from His own temple, He spoke creation into existence by lifting up His voice of and from His own bodily form; Jesus Christ
Firstly, ALL scripture is authored by God. All writers wrote the scripture under or through the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. Therefore, if the Bible says it, God said it. If God said it, it is true whether we believe it or not.
Jesus said to the seventy : "he who heareth you, hearethh me." This was and is Jesus' attitude toward all of the scripture. Another example is found in John 5:45-47. Jesus said to the Jews who were persecuting Him "But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words? IOW's if you don't believe what God has said, then how can you believe what I am saying, I speak the words of God, because I am not only the son of man, but I AM also God.
All scripture are truly words spoken by God. Whenever the scriptures are quoted, God is the One that is heard.
Matt 22:31-32
But regarding the resurrection of the dead, have you not read what was spoken to you by God: 32I AM THE GOD OF ABRAHAM, AND THE GOD OF ISAAC, AND THE GOD OF JACOB? He (God) is not the God of the dead but of the living.
Job 3:23: Job sought the temple or tabernacle of God (fixed place where God resides), but could not find it, for it had not been revealed to him.
John 2:19-22: Jesus said He (His bodily form) was the temple of God. The temple made without hands.
Col 1:19: Jesus was eternally purposed to be the permanent and fixed dwelling of ALL the fullness of God
Col 2:9: Jesus is the permanent and eternal dwelling of ALL the fullness of God in bodily form (the resurrection and ascended Christ is the Glory of God that Moses saw the hinder parts of. Moses wrote about Him).
1 Cor 15:20-28, 27-28:P This is the depiction and description of who God is, in the end. God the Father subjected all things to the son of man (excepting Himself). After all His works were finished, the son, subjects himself in bodily form to God the Father, so God could be the ALL in ALL. This is the picture of who the God of eternity is. This is the God of the eternal day of creation; the true Sabbath day of God. The day that never ends.
Mark 2:27-28: For the above stated reason, this explains what Jesus meant when He said "man was not made for the Sabbath, but the Sabbath was made for man, therefore, the son of man, is Lord of the Sabbath.
Now, here is the thing: The author of the Bible and the One telling the story of His creation, is the eternal God depicted and described through the invisible thread of the Scriptures (I quoted enough to connect the dots, but many more scriptures lead to the same place because the Scriptures testify about the Glory of God: Jesus Christ).
Therefore, the Bible is written and God has spoken from His eternal place in Heaven. However, we still exist in the fullness of time of God's works. Even though He finished them before the foundation of the world.
If God finished His works before He made man (He did), then He spoke creation into existence from his place in eternity (He did), which is depicted in 1 Cor 15:20-28, 27-28 (it is, God eternally dwells in bodily form of the son of man, Jesus Christ).
We should now understand why Col 1:16-17 says all things were created by Him and through Him (God spoke creation by the voice and through the bodily form of Jesus Christ). God spoke creation into existence and the One who lifted up His voice is the One who is the ALL in ALL depicted in 1 Cor 15:27-28; All the fullness of God, eternally dwelling in the bodily form of His own Glory; Jesus Christ.
This means the voice that was heard at Jesus' baptism of John's baptism into repentance and at the transfiguration, came from God, the ALL in ALL. Why or how? Even before the foundation of the world, God finished all His works, therefore God is the God as depicted and described in 1 Cor 15:20-28, 27-28) that spoke creation into existence. He is also the only God that has ever spoken to man about who He is. He eternally abides in the bodily form of His own Glory; Jesus Christ.
This is the God of eternity and this is the only God that has ever spoken![/qu
I'm afraid I can't quite agree with this. Your assumption is that God dictated the Bible word-for-word to purely passive scribes who wrote it down exactly as God dictated it. The fist problem I have with that is that at no place dos Scripture tell how it was written. The second problem I have is that the Bible contains about 100 major contradictions. For example, 2 Sam. 21:19 says that Elhanan killed Goliath of Gath. Now, the edition of teh Bible you may have may say that Elhanan killed the "brother of" Goliath, but that is a gloss by the translators. In point of fact, the original Hebrew simply says Elhanan killed Goliath of Gath. Let's take the Genesis account. In point of act, there are two contradictory accounts of creation here, one in Gen. 1 and another in Gen. 2. In Gen. 1, first animals, then man and woman together. In Gen. 2, first man, then animals, then woman. The linguistic styles of teh two chapters is also radically different. Probably Gen. 2 is the older of the two accounts. My position is that divinely inspired as the Bible may be, it is still the produce of a prescientific culture n therefore not a reliable source for cosmology.
Re: The God of Glory spoke creation into existence
Post #28[Replying to post 24 by Yahu]
I am inclined to agree. There are many contradictions in Scripture. In addition, there is the knotty problem of teh canon. What is to be taken as Scripture and what not? With whom will we agree? The Hebrew-speaking Jews, who had our OT, or teh Greek-speaking Jews in Alexandria who had a much longer OT? Should the Apocrypha be considered part of the Bible? Should James and Ester be included or excluded? Luther said Ester should be thrown in the Danube, and that James was a "straw epistle," which he put in an appendix, separate from the rest of the Bible. God did not drop Scripture down from heaven, on a silver platter, on our heads. What is or is not Scripture has been very much at the arbitrary decisions of fallible human beings.
I am inclined to agree. There are many contradictions in Scripture. In addition, there is the knotty problem of teh canon. What is to be taken as Scripture and what not? With whom will we agree? The Hebrew-speaking Jews, who had our OT, or teh Greek-speaking Jews in Alexandria who had a much longer OT? Should the Apocrypha be considered part of the Bible? Should James and Ester be included or excluded? Luther said Ester should be thrown in the Danube, and that James was a "straw epistle," which he put in an appendix, separate from the rest of the Bible. God did not drop Scripture down from heaven, on a silver platter, on our heads. What is or is not Scripture has been very much at the arbitrary decisions of fallible human beings.
Re: The God of Glory spoke creation into existence
Post #29Exactly. Augustine was opposed to putting the books of Enoch in the Canon as well as the book of Jude because it quoted Enoch book 1. Enoch presented a doctrine that was directly opposed to one of Augustine's pet doctrines so he suppressed it and tried to have it destroyed. Yet Enoch did make it into the Ethopian Canon.hoghead1 wrote: [Replying to post 24 by Yahu]
I am inclined to agree. There are many contradictions in Scripture. In addition, there is the knotty problem of teh canon. What is to be taken as Scripture and what not? With whom will we agree? The Hebrew-speaking Jews, who had our OT, or teh Greek-speaking Jews in Alexandria who had a much longer OT? Should the Apocrypha be considered part of the Bible? Should James and Ester be included or excluded? Luther said Ester should be thrown in the Danube, and that James was a "straw epistle," which he put in an appendix, separate from the rest of the Bible. God did not drop Scripture down from heaven, on a silver platter, on our heads. What is or is not Scripture has been very much at the arbitrary decisions of fallible human beings.
So which canon is the right canon? The Catholics have additional books in their bible. The Greek Septuagint, the bible in Greek in Yeshua's day had other books in it as well.
To say for example, the King James is the official correct word of God for English is TOTAL NONSENSE but many people actually believe it while I can show several translation errors in the KJV of the top of my head.
I don't have a problem with taking the Torah, books of Moses as divinely provided or the books of the prophets in the OT but to say that every word is direct from the mouth of Yah, is utter nonsense. You have to look at who is speaking in any passage. So would you take the words spoken by evil queen Jezebel as being truth from the mouth of Yah?
Re: The God of Glory spoke creation into existence
Post #30[Replying to post 29 by Yahu]
Good point about the KJV. "Jehovah" is a serious mistranslation. Also, the KJV originally contained the Apocrypha. Funny, how many will say they follow the KJV 1611, when they come nowhere close to it, using much later editions. The traditional view of inerrancy is that only the original texts are inerrant, never the translations. The other problem here is that the "original texts" do not all agree. The Johannie Comma is not at all in the early Bibles. I don't think that crops up until around the 10th century. Between the DSS and later Masoretic editions, the Book of Samuel got shorter and Goliath got much taller.
Good point about the KJV. "Jehovah" is a serious mistranslation. Also, the KJV originally contained the Apocrypha. Funny, how many will say they follow the KJV 1611, when they come nowhere close to it, using much later editions. The traditional view of inerrancy is that only the original texts are inerrant, never the translations. The other problem here is that the "original texts" do not all agree. The Johannie Comma is not at all in the early Bibles. I don't think that crops up until around the 10th century. Between the DSS and later Masoretic editions, the Book of Samuel got shorter and Goliath got much taller.
