What Are Your Christian Non-Negotiables?

[ElCodeMonkey]

To be "saved", what are the absolute non-negotiables? What must you absolutely do, believe, trust, say, etc? Jesus died for sins, Jesus is God, Belief in Trinity, Baptism, etc, etc. What cannot be ignored for salvation?

[tam]

And OC is somewhat correct in that there is disagreement among those who profess to be Christian.


Some differences might be explained by some being less mature in Christ than others (but these should resolve as they continue to learn from Christ). Or because some may yet be hanging on to 'some baggage and false teachings' from their former religion, such as when Paul tried to get people to judge and focus upon the law, until he learned the truth from Christ. (hence one must knock the whole house down to the very foundation cornerstone - Christ - and build upon Him)

But other disagreements will be because not all who profess to be Christian ARE Christian. (Matt 7:22, 23)

Nor do all who profess to follow Christ truly follow HIM, but instead follow men, religion, religious leaders, etc.



Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

[Yahu]

You ask, "Where is there room for the Spirit in this?" that is, the already prepared Memorial talk. The Holy Spirit already operated on the brothers that were preparing the talk at Bethel.

So you are stating that the only influence in the JW from the Holy Spirit's anointing is on the select few that prepare the propoganda? How sad.

It also implies that if they are led by demonic spirits instead, that influence is propagated throughout the entire denomination without the right to test the spirit behind that teaching. How convenient for the enemy and how against scripture that is. We are commanded to test the spirit behind any teaching. Your saying a JW isn't allowed to test the spirit behind any teaching because it is automatically from Yah to begin with. Again, how sad you are forced into disobedience. So unity of belief trumps truth or the ability to even test the teaching.

Yeshua didn't say He came to bring unity but conflict. Without conflict, you cant test and overcome error. Without overcoming, there is no spiritual growth. Again, how sad.

[Yahu]

The question seems to reflect a "once saved always saved" sort of paradigm. I don't hold to any iron-clad rules outside of one must have a spirit of constant repentance while trusting in God’s mercy. This leads to union with Christ and salvation. I suppose it’s a faith and works sort of doing things to it’s probably abhorrent to sola fide/scriptura advocates.

IMO you are confusing sanctification with salvation or salvation of the spirit verses salvation of the soul.

[OnceConvinced]

Do you enjoy being contentious?

Personal attack noted. I will take it due to that, you have no good answers to give.

This is not about being contentious. These are legitimate questions. If one claims we must love God with all our heart there must be some way we can tell that we are doing that. How can we measure it?

What kind of a question is that?

Questions designed to get answers. Questions designed also to get people thinking about the rationality of what they actually believe.

It's one thing to make a claim, it's another thing to be able to support it isn't it? How can one possibly accurately measure whether one is loving God with all their heart? Where is the line drawn between loving him with all one's heart and failing to love him with all one's heart?

Aren't these important questions? Ones that should be asked? After all, isn't where we spend our eternity at stake here?

I said clearly that God is eager to forgive, and all we need to do is ask his forgiveness. We do this on a daily basis, as Jesus indicated we should do (Matt.6:9,10).

And just how sincere do we have to be? How many times can we ask for forgiveness before forgiveness is no longer offered?

There appears to be no guarantees here.

I ask these questions because I get Christians on this site all the time telling me I was never a true Christian. So somewhere along the line I must have screwed up... or so they claim. Seeing as I adopted many of these non-negotiables that Christians list here, one would think all would have been ok. But no, somewhere along the line I fell from glory. That is why I ask these probing questions. Exactly where is the line drawn? How much is guaranteed? How much of it is fantasy? How much of it is reality?

Contempt noted.

I'm guessing that you have never really thought too hard about these so-called not-negotiables of yours. You simply take them at face value without questioning the reality of them.

[OnceConvinced]

Well, unless you are one of Jehovah's Witnesses it seems you will have to bow to my superior knowledge and experience on the matter.

Nope, I will not bow to you just because you make such a claim. JWs are full of humans just like every other religion. As such they will all have their own opinions and will not agree on all things.

If it were true, I'm betting your bible study/discussion groups are very very boring with everyone in agreement with one another.

Firstly it is a fact, so it is not *if* it is so. Further, I was under the impression, the point of your post was that you consider disunity a point for criticism. If so, wouldn't unity be a positive? Or are you saying "If Christians can't agree, that's bad but if Christians DO agree, that's also bad" (unless being "boring" is in your view a positive trait).

I will be sure to point out any disagreements you three have in future threads.

[OnceConvinced]

When I walked into a congregation in Germany it was like walking into my home congregation.....

I used to walk into Churches like that all the time as a Christian. They weren't JW churches. In my experiences here in New Zealand one can walk into almost any church and feel comfortable. Like they are walking into their home congregation. Everything is much the same. Clearly, Jehovah's Witnesses churches are no different in that respect.

Every Church I went to had similar non-negotiables. But the fine print was not agreed upon all the time.

I'm guessing that JW churches will be a little quicker to cast out members who cause conflict, than most Christian churches would. It would then not be at all surprising that only those who go with the status quo remain.

[OnceConvinced]

I was wondering when a detractor would show up.

OC if you like conflict, don't care for unity and like to be told what you want to hear our detractors have everything you would ever want.

I have heard similar things many times about Jehovah's Witness. Of course there is going to be unity when you are expected to follow teachings to the letter and any one who disagrees is ostracised.

Haven't the JWs made false prophecies in the past? The bible makes it quite clear how we are to view those who make false prophecies.

[OnceConvinced]

Note that timothy does not point out anything untrue, or correct anything I said, from my experience of the meetings, but simply labels me (ad hominem) a 'detractor'. Perhaps also giving a demonstration of my point regarding what occurs when 'disagreeing' with that organization.

Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

It gets kind of tiring sometimes, when people detract....after they have been reasoned with ad nauseum. Perhaps 2timothy is just pausing to catch his breath after OC has tried to chop Christians to bits.

Now who is acting as a detractor? Trying to say I am attempting to chop Christians to bits is unfair and uncivil. Since when was asking legitimate questions and expecting unity amongst the followers of Christ seen as trying to chop Christians to bits?

If you were asking a teacher at school probing questions, even beyond their own knowledge, would that be considered chopping the teacher to bits? If you expected your own church leaders to be in unity and you questioned this unity, would that be seen as attempting to chop the leaders to bits?

If what you are seeing is an attempt to "Chop Christians to bits", then that tells me quite clearly I have asked some questions that have made you uncomfortable. Questions that you have no rational answers for and that offend you. Perhaps they point out major flaws in the entire system?

[onewithhim]

Perhaps OC would like to hear from someone who is not a JW but who has attended a few of those meetings?

If so...


The WTBTS (Watchtower Bible and Tract Society) is, I believe, the legal name of that religion.

Tract is an important part of the name because they send out Watchtower (and Awake) tracts (magazines) every month. The tract comes from the writing committee and the information contained therein is what JW's read and accept as true.


So at the meeting, an article (or two) from the WT magazine of the month is read by one person from the small stage at the front of the room. Everyone else is sitting and listening. They are all reading word for word from the magazine. Then questions (which questions are also written in the magazine - so that everything is scripted) are asked to the members in the audience. The members then raise their hands and are called upon by the elder to give the answer. They can read directly from the magazine, or they can put the answer from the magazine in their own words, perhaps even give an example of what is written if they have such an example.

So... the article is read, the scripted questions are asked, members are called upon to give the answer from the material just read.

They also sing some songs, and pray some prayers.

tammy

Can anyone imagine someone criticizing a workbook? How many of those did we have in school? Were there not many questions in the workbooks to help us arrive at the answer? Might we call those workbooks "scripted"? I think anyone can see that Tam is trying to sink a ship that is not the enemy. A person's bias can really hinder them in their reasoning.

I merely described the meeting. I did not call it boring. I did not call it bad. I did not give my personal opinion. It is scripted, so my saying so is just speaking truthfully. Yes?


So unless the truth is sinking the ship, why would you take issue with me over my description?


Peace again,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

Anyone who reads your post would know why I took acception to it. Don't be so smarmy. It's not very nice.

[onewithhim]

.
Moderator Zzyzx removed one-line, non-contributing post. Kindly refrain from making posts that contribute nothing to debate and/or simply express agreement / disagreement or make other frivolous remarks.

For complementing or agreeing use the "Like" function or the MGP button. For anything else use PM.