What Are Your Christian Non-Negotiables?

[ElCodeMonkey]

To be "saved", what are the absolute non-negotiables? What must you absolutely do, believe, trust, say, etc? Jesus died for sins, Jesus is God, Belief in Trinity, Baptism, etc, etc. What cannot be ignored for salvation?

[onewithhim]

You ask, "Where is there room for the Spirit in this?" that is, the already prepared Memorial talk. The Holy Spirit already operated on the brothers that were preparing the talk at Bethel.

So you are stating that the only influence in the JW from the Holy Spirit's anointing is on the select few that prepare the propoganda? How sad.

It also implies that if they are led by demonic spirits instead, that influence is propagated throughout the entire denomination without the right to test the spirit behind that teaching. How convenient for the enemy and how against scripture that is. We are commanded to test the spirit behind any teaching. Your saying a JW isn't allowed to test the spirit behind any teaching because it is automatically from Yah to begin with. Again, how sad you are forced into disobedience. So unity of belief trumps truth or the ability to even test the teaching.

Yeshua didn't say He came to bring unity but conflict. Without conflict, you cant test and overcome error. Without overcoming, there is no spiritual growth. Again, how sad.

"Propaganda"? You have had the opportunity here to read and understand the truth. It has been spread out before your eyes for years. Yet you turn on it to trample it underfoot. To even respond to your hateful speech is becoming useless. (What YOU preach is against Scripture. Big time.)

Come Lord Jesus.

[onewithhim]

Do you enjoy being contentious?

Personal attack noted. I will take it due to that, you have no good answers to give.

This is not about being contentious. These are legitimate questions. If one claims we must love God with all our heart there must be some way we can tell that we are doing that. How can we measure it?

What kind of a question is that?

Questions designed to get answers. Questions designed also to get people thinking about the rationality of what they actually believe.

It's one thing to make a claim, it's another thing to be able to support it isn't it? How can one possibly accurately measure whether one is loving God with all their heart? Where is the line drawn between loving him with all one's heart and failing to love him with all one's heart?

Aren't these important questions? Ones that should be asked? After all, isn't where we spend our eternity at stake here?

I said clearly that God is eager to forgive, and all we need to do is ask his forgiveness. We do this on a daily basis, as Jesus indicated we should do (Matt.6:9,10).

And just how sincere do we have to be? How many times can we ask for forgiveness before forgiveness is no longer offered?

There appears to be no guarantees here.

I ask these questions because I get Christians on this site all the time telling me I was never a true Christian. So somewhere along the line I must have screwed up... or so they claim. Seeing as I adopted many of these non-negotiables that Christians list here, one would think all would have been ok. But no, somewhere along the line I fell from glory. That is why I ask these probing questions. Exactly where is the line drawn? How much is guaranteed? How much of it is fantasy? How much of it is reality?

Contempt noted.

I'm guessing that you have never really thought too hard about these so-called not-negotiables of yours. You simply take them at face value without questioning the reality of them.

Your posts are, sadly, becoming a waste of time to even read them. I HAVE answered your questions, over and over, as have JehovahsWitness, 2timothy316 and tigger. You refuse to accept those explanations and then say that neither they nor I have any answers! I have thought long and hard about what I have said are my "non-negotiables." I don't take anything as truth just because somebody says it is, and you have no right to say that I haven't thought about what I believe.


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[JehovahsWitness]

JWs are full of humans just like every other religion. As such they will all have their own opinions and will not agree on all things.
.

I did not say JWs agree on all things. If you are claiming I did you have but to produce the quotation, otherwise I do believe this could be classified as a straw man argument. Please click here (post #52) to read the accurate statement made.

I will be sure to point out any disagreements you three have in future threads.

See Above


JW

[JehovahsWitness]

So when OWH, JW, and TS state that they all believe the same thing, this is most likely true.

Thank you!

While I would qualify that in my opinion religious unity is ensured, not by believing the same thing on every matter, believing the same thing on fundamental matters of faith is indeed one of the building blocks for it. You affirmation of my point is much appreciated

May the peace and joy of our Lord be with you and your family,

JW

[JehovahsWitness]

Note that timothy does not point out anything untrue, or correct anything I said

If I may be so bold to interject, the statement below is incorrect.

The WTBTS (Watchtower Bible and Tract Society) is, I believe, the legal name of that religion.

The name of our religion is JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES. This name was formally adopted in Columb us, Ohio on July 27th, 1931. The countries that legally recognise our religion do so under this name.

The Watchtower & Bible Tract Society is the name of a US based legal corporation, run by members who are Jehovah'save Witnesses to publish books, bibles and bible based literature.

Hope that helps clarify matters,

JW

[OnceConvinced]

Your posts are, sadly, becoming a waste of time to even read them.

I feel that about certain members here too.

I HAVE answered your questions, over and over

No you haven't. Look at the above questions. I've never asked these questions before ever on this forum. You have made absolutely no effort to answer them. Just make personal attacks. Clearly you have no answers to give.

, as have JehovahsWitness, 2timothy316 and tigger. You refuse to accept those explanations

What are you talking about? I accept that you see those things you mentioned as non-negotiables.

and then say that neither they nor I have any answers!

Certainly not to the questions that I have asked you that you are doing your best to avoid answering.

I have thought long and hard about what I have said are my "non-negotiables." I don't take anything as truth just because somebody says it is, and you have no right to say that I haven't thought about what I believe.

The questions I have asked you are in regards to loving God with all your heart. How about having a go at answering those rather than hurling out insults at members here?

[Zzyzx]

.

Your posts are, sadly, becoming a waste of time to even read them.

Moderator Final Warning

Your post is criticism of another member -- NOT debate of the issue.

If someone's posts are a waste of your time there is no requirement that you read or respond to them -- and no need to trash threads announcing such things.

Please review the Rules.


______________

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[onewithhim]

JWs are full of humans just like every other religion. As such they will all have their own opinions and will not agree on all things.
.

I did not say JWs agree on all things. If you are claiming I did you have but to produce the quotation, otherwise I do believe this could be classified as a straw man argument. Please click here (post #52) to read the accurate statement made.

I will be sure to point out any disagreements you three have in future threads.

See Above


JW

I may have said we agree on everything. However, what I meant was that we agree on every basic doctrine. There are few things we wouldn't agree on, and those things would be things that everybody has personal opinions on, like how much to eat, what color looks best for Kingdom Hall curtains, whether or not to have children, should I get the brakes on the car fixed now or next month....

[Yahu]

You ask, "Where is there room for the Spirit in this?" that is, the already prepared Memorial talk. The Holy Spirit already operated on the brothers that were preparing the talk at Bethel.

So you are stating that the only influence in the JW from the Holy Spirit's anointing is on the select few that prepare the propoganda? How sad.

It also implies that if they are led by demonic spirits instead, that influence is propagated throughout the entire denomination without the right to test the spirit behind that teaching. How convenient for the enemy and how against scripture that is. We are commanded to test the spirit behind any teaching. Your saying a JW isn't allowed to test the spirit behind any teaching because it is automatically from Yah to begin with. Again, how sad you are forced into disobedience. So unity of belief trumps truth or the ability to even test the teaching.

Yeshua didn't say He came to bring unity but conflict. Without conflict, you cant test and overcome error. Without overcoming, there is no spiritual growth. Again, how sad.

"Propaganda"? You have had the opportunity here to read and understand the truth. It has been spread out before your eyes for years. Yet you turn on it to trample it underfoot. To even respond to your hateful speech is becoming useless. (What YOU preach is against Scripture. Big time.)

Come Lord Jesus.

Truth from a JW? I just trample on false teaching when and where I find it.

I am allowed to test the spirit behind any teaching (Thank Yah) and find that I will not listen to lying spirits and demonic doctrines. You are also free to test any teaching that I present. My primary spiritual gift is discernment of spirits and the teachings of JW knot up my guts from the lies and deception presented. I sense the bondage that JWs are in along with the spirits of arrogance and superiority. You can't even acknowledge when you are proved wrong by scripture.

So no, never expect me to accept JW doctrine. It is mostly nonsense IMO as well as a spiritually dangerous cult. I would NEVER allow a denomination to dictate every doctrine I must believe. That reeks of an anti-christ spirit cult and Baal worship.

1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

I count those JW elders that spread their propaganda as false prophets that lead others into error, as an example of the blind leading the blind. I pity anyone in bondage to JW doctrine. It generally takes major deliverance to get someone free of it according to one of my deliverance books (Pigs in the Parlor). The same is true of Mormons.

To refuse the congregation the right to test any teaching is AGAINST scripture. The only way a JW can be an overcomer is to leave the denomination entirely because EVERY denomination has some error to be overcome but of course JW aren't even allowed to go against doctrine presented by the WT. That is sad. Any error at the top is propagated into the entire denomination so all Satan has to do is bring corruption there. That is why we are individual held accountable to test teachings. Yeshua won't take the excuse that your elders led you into error and you propagated that error.

I am ready and willing to be judged for any of my teaching. We will see who stands above whom come the judgement seat of Christ. To be taken as a false teacher by a denomination that has no discernment of spirits is irrelevant to me. I have already split two churches off from their parent denomination by exposing false teachings in those denominations. One was 'Church of God' and the other was a Presbyterian church. The Presbyterian church became an independent spirit filled Charismatic church and I despise Presbyterian Calvanistic doctrine worse then JW doctrine.

[Yahu]

To be "saved", what are the absolute non-negotiables? What must you absolutely do, believe, trust, say, etc? Jesus died for sins, Jesus is God, Belief in Trinity, Baptism, etc, etc. What cannot be ignored for salvation?

By my understanding, the absolute minimum would be to acknowledge yourself as being a sinner and needing forgiveness to be put back into right standing with Yah. To do so is to ask for that forgiveness and accept Yeshua as your stand in for atonement of those sins by acknowledging Him as at least the 1st begotten Son of God and believing the fact of His death and resurrection to put you in right standing with the justification (debt payment) of those sins.

Anything beyond that doesn't pertain to salvation but to the sanctification process of spiritual growth. So you start out born in the spirit then grow towards spiritual maturity. The amount of spiritual growth is not required for salvation, but earns eternal rewards in the heavenly kingdom by overcoming error. So someone can be saved on their death bed but may end up in eternity with nothing as reward to be cast into the outer darkness, ie farthest from the throne of glory but still in the kingdom as a penny-less beggar.

Now can that salvation come after death? Well it did so for all those already dead before Yeshua's crucifixion. They had to accept Yeshua after they were already dead.