Heaven & the Resurrection

JehovahsWitness · Post by **JehovahsWitness** » Mon Oct 10, 2016 2:55 pm

Many believe that the righteous men and women from bible times such as Abraham, died and went to heaven.

If that is the case for you, how do you reconcile this with the idea of a future resurrection on "the last day"? What do you think this refers to.

JOHN 11: 24
Martha answered, "I know he will rise again in the resurrection at the last day."

Yahu · Post by **Yahu** » Fri Oct 21, 2016 7:38 pm

Checkpoint wrote: [Replying to post 52 by Yahu]

Did she even have a concept of multiple resurrections?
No.
Neither did Yeshua. Neither did Paul.

That is presented in Revelation.

Checkpoint · Post by **Checkpoint** » Fri Oct 21, 2016 8:10 pm

[Replying to post 60 by Yahu]

Yes, I realize that now. I didn't know at the time she was quoting Yeshua. Why wouldn't the 1st to quote use Yeshua as the speaker? Why Martha?

Sorry, I do not understand your questions, and/or why you asked them.

Please clarify.

Checkpoint · Post by **Checkpoint** » Fri Oct 21, 2016 8:13 pm

Yahu wrote:
Checkpoint wrote: [Replying to post 52 by Yahu]

Did she even have a concept of multiple resurrections?
No.
Neither did Yeshua. Neither did Paul.
That is presented in Revelation.

I do not believe that is a book from which new doctrine is, or should be, created.

onewithhim · Post by **onewithhim** » Sat Oct 22, 2016 4:32 pm

Yahu wrote:
onewithhim wrote:
Donray wrote: [Replying to post 21 by JehovahsWitness]

My interpolation just you have yours. I guess Jesus did not know how to make clear and concise stuff.
Jesus was quite clear, if you read what he said without preconceived ideas. "Jesus said to her [Martha], 'Your brother will rise again.' Martha said to him, 'I KNOW THAT HE WILL RISE AGAIN IN THE RESURRECTION ON THE LAST DAY.' Jesus said to her, 'I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in me will live even if he dies, and everyone who lives and believes in me will never die." (John 11:23-26, NASB)

So, when would the dead rise again? ON THE LAST DAY. That day hasn't come yet.

[/u][/b]
Martha said that. It was her understanding, not a teaching of Yeshua. You can't take her opinion as a gospel truth. That is not how we are to interpret scripture.

That would be like taking one of Job's friends as speaking truth when we are told that they are in error directly by Yah in later chapters.

You have to look at the speaker, the audience, and the context first and then you best find conformation in some other passage. Building entire doctrines off a single reference is foolishness.

Jesus apparently taught what Martha believed, if you'll take a look at John 6:44.

"No man can come to me unless the Father, who sent me, draws him; and I will resurrect him in the last day."

onewithhim · Post by **onewithhim** » Sat Oct 22, 2016 4:45 pm

Checkpoint wrote:
Donray wrote: [Replying to post 28 by Checkpoint]

Never said you were a robot. You thoughts as were mine formed through life experience. Part of your experience is being brainwashed into a religion. So your thoughts want to strength your beliefs.
Right, you did not say we were robots, but you do say we were brainwashed.

You do not know me, but you think I can be pigeon-holed as part of a stereotype .

I was never brainwashed into any religion. That was not part of my life experience.

You would do well to cease from making gratuitous assumptions about others.

Tell me what your religious beliefs are that differ from your parents.
Intelligent question. Much better than putting strangers in boxes.

Pretty well all that is in my posts.

My dad had no religion, and my mother was anti-religion.

Our family never attended anything religious.
May I throw in my $.02? A few of us here have been accused of being "brainwashed" by the religion of our parents. Checkpoint gave his experience that defies that assumption, and I also thought I'd share my own experience. I was baptized into the Methodist Church as a baby, and we went to that church for the next 15 or 16 years. Then we started going to Southern Baptist churches, and I was baptized into that persuation. Then my mother took me to a variety of non-denominational, fundamentalist, "born-again" churches. I stopped going to any church when I was about 21. I met the JWs when I was about 25.

Donray · Post by **Donray** » Sat Oct 22, 2016 6:31 pm

[Replying to post 65 by onewithhim]

So you were brainwashed into religion!!! That is what I said, you where born into Christian religion and you still call yourself a Christian.

Brainwashed into your religion. Your parents brainwashed you from birth to 18 or whenever you left home and still believe in the Bible, God and Jesus.

Thanks for providing an example of what I mean.

Checkpoint · Post by **Checkpoint** » Sat Oct 22, 2016 7:55 pm

Donray wrote: [Replying to post 65 by onewithhim]

So you were brainwashed into religion!!! That is what I said, you where born into Christian religion and you still call yourself a Christian.

Brainwashed into your religion. Your parents brainwashed you from birth to 18 or whenever you left home and still believe in the Bible, God and Jesus.

Thanks for providing an example of what I mean.

What is your story?

Talishi · Post by **Talishi** » Sat Oct 22, 2016 8:00 pm

onewithhim wrote: "No man can come to me unless the Father, who sent me, draws him; and I will resurrect him in the last day."

Apparently Moses and Abraham and Elijah and Enoch and Lazarus and the Good Thief got let into the pearly gates a bit early.

Mark 9:4 And there appeared unto them Elias with Moses: and they were talking with Jesus.

Checkpoint · Post by **Checkpoint** » Sat Oct 22, 2016 8:08 pm

Talishi wrote:
onewithhim wrote: "No man can come to me unless the Father, who sent me, draws him; and I will resurrect him in the last day."
Apparently Moses and Abraham and Elijah and Enoch and Lazarus and the Good Thief got let into the pearly gates a bit early.

Mark 9:4 And there appeared unto them Elias with Moses: and they were talking with Jesus.

Nope.

All of them are still dead, or as scripture sometimes terms it, asleep.

Donray · Post by **Donray** » Sat Oct 22, 2016 8:10 pm

Checkpoint wrote:
Donray wrote: [Replying to post 65 by onewithhim]

So you were brainwashed into religion!!! That is what I said, you where born into Christian religion and you still call yourself a Christian.

Brainwashed into your religion. Your parents brainwashed you from birth to 18 or whenever you left home and still believe in the Bible, God and Jesus.

Thanks for providing an example of what I mean.
What is your story?

I was brought up where religion was not discussed. Did not go to church. I studies comparative regions in High School in ancient history.

Decided I was an atheist when I was about 50, never thought much about gods before than.

Since never discussed religion with my parents when I left home at 18 I was free to choose whatever.