Is the Resurrurredction really a historical fact, or not?

[polonius]

In Paul’s oldest and first epistle, written in 51-52 AD, he states without qualification that:

“Indeed, we tell you this, on the word of the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord,* will surely not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16For the Lord himself, with a word of command, with the voice of an archangel and with the trumpet of God, will come down from heaven, and the dead in Christ will rise first.g17 Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together* with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. Thus we shall always be with the Lord.� 1 Thes 4:15-17

But it didn’t happen. Thus we must conclude that either Paul or the Lord were incorrect.

How much else of what Paul told us is also incorrect?

Recall, it was Paul who reported the Resurrection in 1 Corinthians 15 written about 53-57 AD.

Was his story historically correct (did it actually happen) or is it just a story that was used by and embellished by the writers of the New Testament?

Since the basis of Christian belief is the historical fact of the Resurrection, let’s examine the evidence and see if the Resurrection really happened or can an analysis of the story show that it is improbable if not impossible.

Opinions?

[Talishi]

QUESTION: Did Jesus ascend to heaven the same day he was raised from the dead (Luke’s gospel) or 40 days after he was raised from the dead (Acts of the Apostles).

The remarkable thing is that Luke is the author of both works and still didn't get it right. Almost like he made it all up or something, and didn't have proof-readers.

[polonius]

QUESTION: Did Jesus ascend to heaven the same day he was raised from the dead (Luke’s gospel) or 40 days after he was raised from the dead (Acts of the Apostles).

The remarkable thing is that Luke is the author of both works and still didn't get it right. Almost like he made it all up or something, and didn't have proof-readers.

RESPONSE

That is one explanation.

However, it is not certain that Luke really wrote both. This conflict might suggest that he did not.

Also, since in Acts Luke is supposedly reporting what Paul told him, maybe Paul contradicted the Gospel of Luke?

[Goose]

QUESTION: Did Jesus ascend to heaven the same day he was raised from the dead (Luke’s gospel) or 40 days after he was raised from the dead (Acts of the Apostles).

Luke doesn't say in his Gospel that Jesus ascended to heaven the same day he rose from the dead. That's something you are reading into the text.

[polonius]

[Replying to Goose]

Goose posted

"Luke doesn't say in his Gospel that Jesus ascended to heaven the same day he rose from the dead. That's something you are reading into the text.

No.Goose is seriously in error here. The claim of Jesus' Ascension on Easter evening is the plain meaning of words even confirmed in the Catholic Bible.

New American Bible:
Footnote: to Luke chapter 24 "[24:50–53] Luke brings his story about the time of Jesus to a close with the report of the ascension. He will also begin the story of the time of the church with a recounting of the ascension. In the gospel, Luke recounts the ascension of Jesus on Easter Sunday night, thereby closely associating it with the resurrection."

[Talishi]

Luke doesn't say in his Gospel that Jesus ascended to heaven the same day he rose from the dead. That's something you are reading into the text.

Indeed. Matthew has the disciples first meeting Jesus on a mountain in Galilee. It couldn't have been one day, because it takes longer to walk from Galilee to Jerusalem. Then again, Luke doesn't say anything about Galilee post-resurrection. It's all so confusing for the "most important event in human history".

[polonius]

Luke doesn't say in his Gospel that Jesus ascended to heaven the same day he rose from the dead. That's something you are reading into the text.

Indeed. Matthew has the disciples first meeting Jesus on a mountain in Galilee. It couldn't have been one day, because it takes longer to walk from Galilee to Jerusalem. Then again, Luke doesn't say anything about Galilee post-resurrection. It's all so confusing for the "most important event in human history".

RESPONSE: So Luke's gospel is in error as to fact. (Shall we begin collecting a list of other errors is what are claimed to be divinely inspired writings?

[Talishi]

RESPONSE: So Luke's gospel is in error as to fact. (Shall we begin collecting a list of other errors is what are claimed to be divinely inspired writings?

We could begin to do so, but the resulting list would be a fair fraction of the volume of the Bible itself.

[Goose]

Luke doesn't say in his Gospel that Jesus ascended to heaven the same day he rose from the dead. That's something you are reading into the text.

No.Goose is seriously in error here.

Am I? Then kindly quote where Luke says in his Gospel the resurrection and ascension occurred in the same day. The fact is, he doesn’t. The fact is, Luke makes no explicit claim to the time frame in his Gospel. Everything thing else you’ve stated is simply based upon a misunderstanding of how NT writers (and other secular sources for that matter) recorded events.

All one needs to do is take the time to read Luke’s Gospel in its entirety to gain an appreciation for how Luke records events. Often he narrates events one after the other using και ("And") as a connector without committing to a precise chronology of elapsed time between the events themselves. He does it more often than not.

There are numerous examples of this. Such as the temptation of Jesus in the wilderness followed by his teaching in the Synagogues (Luke 4:1-41). If we follow your “plain meaning of words� approach you use on Luke 24 we arrive at the conclusion that Luke was saying Jesus 1) went through all his temptations while moving from the wilderness to Jerusalem 2) taught in the Synagogues of Galilee 3) went to Nazareth to preach in the Synagogue there 4) was driven out of the city 5) went to Capernaum to preach in the Synagogue there 6) cast out a demon 7) went to Simon’s home 8) healed the sick 9) reports managed to spread into every location in the district – all in ONE day!

It’s unreasonable to think Luke meant all those events occurred in the same day so I must conclude your approach is flawed.

[polonius]

RESPONSE: So Luke's gospel is in error as to fact. (Shall we begin collecting a list of other errors is what are claimed to be divinely inspired writings?

We could begin to do so, but the resulting list would be a fair fraction of the volume of the Bible itself.

RESPONSE: Actually, you are underestimating the number of errors. But if you want to maintain that all scripture is divinely inspired (or "God breathed) all that would result is the number of times God made errors.

Getting back to Luke 24, where does it say that Jesus and the Apostles journeyed to Galilee as reported by the other gospels?

Now there are two "errors."

[polonius]

Luke doesn't say in his Gospel that Jesus ascended to heaven the same day he rose from the dead. That's something you are reading into the text.

No.Goose is seriously in error here.

Goose posted;

Am I? Then kindly quote where Luke says in his Gospel the resurrection and ascension occurred in the same day. The fact is, he doesn’t. The fact is, Luke makes no explicit claim to the time frame in his Gospel. Everything thing else you’ve stated is simply based upon a misunderstanding of how NT writers (and other secular sources for that matter) recorded events.

RESPONSE: I interpret the word "then" by it's plain meaning and in the sense that Luke's gospel uses it.

See Luke 24, the chapter we are discussing. See the plain meaning of words. As in:


Merriam Webster Dictionary: Simple Definition of THEN
: at that time : at the time mentioned

See chapter 24: 24-44 Then he said to them, ‘These are my words that I spoke to you while I was still with you—that everything written about me in the law of Moses, the prophets, and the psalms must be fulfilled.’

45Then he opened their minds to understand the scriptures, 46and he said to them, ‘Thus it is written, that the Messiah* is to suffer and to rise from the dead on the third day, 47and that repentance and forgiveness of sins is to be proclaimed in his name to all nations, beginning from Jerusalem. 48You are witnesses* of these things. 49And see, I am sending upon you what my Father promised; so stay here in the city until you have been clothed with power from on high.’
•
50 Then he led them out as far as Bethany, and, lifting up his hands, he blessed them. 51While he was blessing them, he withdrew from them and was carried up into heaven.* 52And they worshipped him, and* returned to Jerusalem with great joy; 53and they were continually in the temple blessing God.*

All one needs to do is take the time to read what specifically this gospel of Luke mens by the word "then' by how he uses it. Not somewhere else in the bible.

Now you should understand how the word "then" is used by Luke in Luke 24. Note especially that the word "then" does not mean 40 days later

And "then" perhaps you will refer us to the passaGE where Jesus tells his apostles they are to travel to Galilee?