Evangelicals vs. Jehovah's Witnesses

[Elijah John]

Evangelicals often call Jehovah's Witnesses, a "cult" and not Christian.

Jehovah's Witnesses, seem to consider Roman Catholics, Protestants, Eastern Orthodox etc, "not-Christian" (JWs please correct me if I'm wrong on this)

Question for debate, why can't all of these groups rightly be considered "Christian"?

And part two of this OP question is directed primarily to Evangelicals, why don't you consider JWs to be Christian?

[onewithhim]

Where did you get the silly definition of "destruction"? "To lose"????? LOL! To lose what?

I already pointed out to Saved that I can't even find a Bible that translates Matthew 10:28 destroy into 'to lose'.

But for the sake of argument lets use the word 'lose'. Saved agrees the 'body' is gone when a person dies right? So it's lost...I get that. Yet Matthew 10:28 says both soul and body. So if the body is lost never to be seen again, that means the soul is too lost never to be seen again. Saved is trying to say there is a difference yet there is zero indication of that in Matthew that one is 'lost' in a different way. Saved injects an interpretation of venom from his own dogma.

Saved is out of moves. The added dogma has been identified and labeled as an addition to the scriptures. The doctrine of eternal soul has been checkmated and was checkmated long ago. But like a person that thinks so highly of themselves thinking they can't be wrong or bested will not leave the chessboard. They can't see why their moves never work. They just keep inviting the same ones to spar and they use the same moves and get nowhere and learn nothing.

There are those "among whom the god of this system of things has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, so that the illumination of the glorious good news about the Christ, who is the image of God, might not shine through." - 2 Cor 4:3, 4. It's sad and it's not a blindness that can be cured by anyone but themselves. The Good News is there is no such thing as eternal pain and suffering. But for some that Good News will not shine through.

Sorry I missed your comment to Saved about "to lose." I try to read all of your comments. I wonder where people get these ideas. Probably from pastors like those I grew up with.

(I enjoy your posts and appreciate the breath of fresh air here that they provide.)

[2timothy316]

[Replying to post 199 by onewithhim]
No problem. Think of repeating an objection to something that clearly isn't Biblical as a show of unity.

I enjoy reading your comments too as they have already make my large shield of faith larger!

"Besides all of this, take up the large shield of faith, with which you will be able to extinguish all the wicked ones burning arrows." (Eph 6:16)

Who would want to carry a small shield of faith?!

[myth-one.com]

The Bible states that the wages of sin is death. And sin is the transgression of God's laws, meaning God's commandments.

"Wages of sin" implies that even one "unpaid for" sin results in death, whereas Jesus himself described the way that leads to destruction as a broad way, or path.

Yes, there are many sins or paths on the broad way, and only one need be taken.

One law they had to obey? What if Adam had killed Eve, the way Cain had killed Abel? Clearly there were more Divine laws that were implied, but not spelled out.

Sin is the transgression of God's laws, or commandments:

For sin is the transgression of the law. (I John 3:4)

However, to commit a sin, one must first recognize that the act is a sin:

To him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin. (James 4:17)

For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law. (Romans 5:13)

And the only recorded law given to Adam & Eve was to not eat of the Tree of Knowledge. Had Adam killed Eve before knowing it was a sin, he would not be charged with that sin. It's the same logic used in insanity and adolescent sentencing.

Man could have eaten freely from the Tree of Life and gained everlasting life -- but they sinned, and are headed for the second death.

OK, if the Garden story is literally true, they already had eternal life.( a free gift)..until they sinned.

No, Adam & Eve were created with two differences between themselves and God & the angels. These differences were knowledge of good & evil and body type -- physical versus spiritual.

Living until one sins is not necessarily equivalent to living forever.

Are Adam and Even in hell now? They had no knowledge of any Savior but God. They knew no "Christ".

Adam & Eve have probably returned to dust by now.

Mankind had no Savior until Jesus died without any sin:

And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance. For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth. (Hebrews 9:15-17)

So, under the first covenant, if a Jew sins, even one "unpaid for" sin, they are consigned to hell?

No, their names are not written into the Book of Life. They will be resurrected at the second resurrection for mankind, and make their decision regarding everlasting life or death. They will be consigned to one or the other choices at that time.

The New Testament describes the first covenant as having a fault:

But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises. For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second. (Hebrews 8:6-7)

Jesus never sinned, and that is what saves people under the New Covenant.

Paul's assumption, your assumption, the Church's assumption, but not one that is founded in the Gospels. Jesus denied he was good, he sought out John for the baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins, lost his temper from time to time...

It is in the Gospels I read:

For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.

So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

The implication is that one sin will condemn man to the second death.

Even IF Jesus was perfect, how is that perfection transferable?

Here is how the scripture justifies it:

12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.

Regarding who is a Christian:
Christians are people who believe in Jesus Christ as their Savior from the wages of their sins.

That's your definition, . . .

Correct.

We agree that the definition of "Christian" transcends demomination, why not transcending the docrine and dogma of Paul's opinions as well?

Because Paul was chosen by God to transmit the gospel to the rest of the world. Paul's words were inspired by God:

All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: (II Timothy 3:16)

[arian]

Evangelicals often call Jehovah's Witnesses, a "cult" and not Christian.

Jehovah's Witnesses, seem to consider Roman Catholics, Protestants, Eastern Orthodox etc, "not-Christian" (JWs please correct me if I'm wrong on this)

Question for debate, why can't all of these groups rightly be considered "Christian"?

And part two of this OP question is directed primarily to Evangelicals, why don't you consider JWs to be Christian?

Hello Elijah John, I pray all is well with you and your loved ones, hey, .. been a while we debated.

First, I'm wondering why no one answered my Post #8 ??

Question for debate, why can't all of these groups rightly be considered "Christian"?

This religion named "Christian" covers all denominations. Actually that was the whole idea of Emperor Constantine, to collect ALL religions and their gods under a One World Religion with him as the leader/ruler/god/deity over them all, .. only he didn't succeed! Came close though, left a trail of heads, rivers of blood, and a lot of tortured, burnt bodies in its wake.

Today, the Pope takes that title, as the "Holiest of Fathers", .. god on earth, a Deity and finally we get to see it come to fruition as not like before under threat or force, but willingly all Religions/Christian Denominations came before him, bowing before this god-on-earth and giving him homage:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5vXm-taoByY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_k2FGclTe4M

And part two of this OP question is directed primarily to Evangelicals, why don't you consider JWs to be Christian?

If you mean Evangelicals as in this definition:
The term evangelical comes from the Greek word euangelion, meaning the good news or the gospel. Thus, the evangelical faith focuses on the good news of salvation brought to sinners by Jesus Christ.
Evangelicals are a vibrant and diverse group, including believers found in many churches, denominations and nations. Our community brings together Reformed, Holiness, Anabaptist, Pentecostal, Charismatic and other traditions.
Our core theological convictions provide unity in the midst of our diversity. The NAE Statement of Faith offers a standard for these evangelical convictions.
http://nae.net/what-is-an-evangelical/

The Christian Religion and all it's denominations claim the Bible as their guide, and a Deity (a deified idea, person) as their God/gods. But if you look, all religions worship some form of Deity who reside/rule from the supernatural realm. Some name him/it Jehovah, YHWH, Do, Jesus, Maa Durga, ISIS, 'god' as an idea created by three individual deities, .. so on and so forth, anything BUT our Infinite, Eternal Creative Mind/Spirit "I Am" in whose image we humans were created in.

This is why the human/flesh Jesus was turned into God by Constantine, a sun-god he and the Romans were very familiar with, which they desperately try to justify from the Bible yet they fail. Even Muslims can debunk the Trinity Doctrine.

The non-Trinitarian religions still believe in Deity/deities who rule from the supernatural realm, only different religious doctrines.

There is a difference, a huge difference between religion created doctrines, and God given revelations as a doctrine:

Mark 1:27 Then they were all amazed, so that they questioned among themselves, saying, What is this? What new doctrine is this? For with authority He commands even the unclean spirits, and they obey Him.

John 7:12 And there was much complaining among the people concerning Him. Some said, He is good; others said, No, on the contrary, He deceives the people. 13 However, no one spoke openly of Him for fear of the Jews.
14 Now about the middle of the feast Jesus went up into the temple and taught. 15 And the Jews marveled, saying, How does this Man know letters, having never studied?
16 Jesus answered them and said, My doctrine is not Mine, but His who sent Me. 17 If anyone wills to do His will, he shall know concerning the doctrine, whether it is from God or whether I speak on My own authority. 18 He who speaks from himself seeks his own glory; but He who seeks the glory of the One who sent Him is true, and no unrighteousness is in Him. 19 Did not Moses give you the law, yet none of you keeps the law? Why do you seek to kill Me?

Would God, in ANY form, deny Himself by saying: My doctrine is not Mine, but His who sent Me. 17 If anyone wills to do His will, he shall know concerning the doctrine, whether it is from God or whether I speak on My own authority." ??

I truly don't understand, why is "religion" so damned important that people, even good Bible believing people would deny their Creator revealed in the Bible and instead bow and worship the god/gods of their religion?

Or can someone here, those of you who have read and studied the Bible for all them years, .. PLEASE explain to me where I have failed to distinguish our God who rules from Heaven He calls His home, and His Son Word in the Bible, from the Deities who divine their half truths and lies from the supernatural realm, that you guys worship!?

Did I misquote the Bible?
Should I define the word divine and supernatural realm to mean Holy and Heaven?
Is my interpretation of "nothing", or "Infinite" not good enough?

You guys want to know how many people have told me (in scientific debates on physics) that Infinite doesn't exist, and that 'nothing' is not really nothing, .. and that God exists only in religion!?

I love you all here, and I pray that God would send His Holy Spirit to help us all to see with our mind, and not depend on our brain and all the indoctrinations we have been subjected to over the past 2,000 years, to discern between truth and blasphemy.
My friends, our Creator is Spirit and He is Holy! To call our God a deity who resides in the supernatural realm, who "divines" to religious Christians who get their degree in "Divination", .. that's right, divination as in becoming a certified medium to deities is nothing short of blasphemy!

PLEASE consider this:

Mathew 12:22 Then one was brought to Him who was demon-possessed, blind and mute; and He healed him, so that the blind and mute man both spoke and saw. 23 And all the multitudes were amazed and said, Could this be the Son of David?
24 Now when the Pharisees heard it they said, This fellow does not cast out demons except by Beelzebub, the ruler of the demons.

25 But Jesus knew their thoughts, and said to them: Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation, and every city or house divided against itself will not stand. 26 If Satan casts out Satan, he is divided against himself. How then will his kingdom stand? 27 And if I cast out demons by Beelzebub, by whom do your sons cast them out? Therefore they shall be your judges. 28 But if I cast out demons by the Spirit of God, surely the kingdom of God has come upon you

Now please read on, remember they called the Holy Spirit, which is Gods being, His Power, His person, who God IS a demon.

The Unpardonable Sin

31 Therefore I say to you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven men. 32 Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come.

God bless you all.

[JehovahsWitness]

Or can someone here, those of you who have read and studied the Bible for all them years, .. PLEASE explain to me where I have failed to distinguish our God who rules from Heaven He calls His home, and His Son Word in the Bible, from the Deities who divine their half truths and lies from the supernatural realm, that you guys worship!?

Well, I don't know who you are addressing when you say "you guys" are so obviously I cannot speak for them, but I'm happy to share what I know about the bible, maybe it can be of some help. Firstly, lets identify the parties concerned shall we.

-- You refer to "our God that rules from heaven" does this God (in the heavens) in your opinion have a NAME? Yes or No?

-- If yes, has he in your opinion revealed this name to anyone past or present?

-- If yes, do we have any idea what it might be today?

The answers to the above will go a long way to help identify where you {quote} "have failed to distinguish" between two (or more) entities.

JW

[Talishi]

Mankind had no Savior until Jesus died without any sin:

I love the one where Jesus paid our "ransom" for sin to his own father. Christians buy into this ultimate expression of Stockholm Syndrome.

[catnip]

Mankind had no Savior until Jesus died without any sin:

I love the one where Jesus paid our "ransom" for sin to his own father. Christians buy into this ultimate expression of Stockholm Syndrome.

Early Christians and the Church Fathers thought he paid the ransom to Satan to free us from bondage to sin and death.

Oh, wait! That's what is written in the scriptures . . .

[onewithhim]

[Replying to Elijah John]

Why Jehovah's Witnesses (JW) teaching and practices are not Christian?

First, let us answer the question, who is considered Christian?

In 1John 4:2 we have been told, This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, And in 1Timothy 3:16, we read, great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit,

Here you can see a simple explanation: God who is capable of doing anything, decided at one point in time to appear in a form of a man to fulfill a great purpose.

WHERE do you see in there God taking the form of a man? Was Moses God too? God was manifested in Moses too, where Moses was like God to both Pharaoh and Aaron, but Moses was NOT God, OK!

That is the Christian Religions pipe-dream, to turn a man by deifying him into God, which is turning God into a man. It never happened, because Infinite cannot become finite.

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word,

Yep, in the beginning was the Word. Do you know who the Word is? It's all there throughout the NT, it is Gods Son whose name is Word.

.. and the Word was with God,

yep, .. the Word was with God, .. not; 'God was with God', .. right?

.. and the Word was God.

yep, .. and the Word was God before God created, or beget Him. You want to see an image of that? Yes, well in Genesis God told His son Word that He wanted to create an "image" of Him and His son Word, remember that? You know, "Let us make man in our own image, in our own likeness, .. so God created them male and female. The male Adam was to represent God, and the female Eve was to represent the Son Word.

Just as the Son was God before God created Him, Eve was Adam before God took her out of him, and created her from Adams rib. So yes, just as Adams rib was Adam, the Word was God. Do you see the Image there?

2 He was in the beginning with God.

NOT; 'God was in the beginning with God, but He, the Son Word was in the beginning with God. God is Infinite and Eternal, He has no beginning nor end, but the Son IS the beginning and the end, both the Alpha and Omega because ..

3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.

so you see, that's why the Word is the beginning and the end, because everything was made through him, and the last thing that God creates will be through him too, so he IS the beginning and the end.

14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.

wait, .. so who became flesh? Does it say "And the God became flesh and dwelt among us?" NO. It's as clear as day, the Word, which both you and I know is Gods Word who became flesh. What was he to be called now?

Jesus, the Word of God.
Do you know that both you and I are actually called to be the "Words of God", .. and yes, even "Children of God" which the Jews at the time would kill us too if we claimed that, .. just as they wanted to kill Jesus after He claimed He was the Son of God, .. remember?

If Jehovah's Witness teaching is in line with the Bible, how come they do not believe that Christ is God appearing in a form of a man and, simply, if you will, equal to God?

Because it is NOT Biblical teaching, maybe that's why? Jesus said "My Father is greater than I, .. that He is my God and your God". Jesus NEVER said; "I am God", never. It was the Catholic Religion that turned, .. or deified Jesus as one of their gods, their sun-god in particular. And who exactly is the Christians sun-god?

Come on, ALL Christians know this and pray to him, .. the Pope even announced it before the whole world: their sun-god Jesus is none other than Lucifer, for whom Christians become mediums to, .. diviners, get a degree in Divinity by going to study all the Roman and Greek gods in theology in a School of Divinity.

I mean can you imagine what God thinks of this Trinity (demonic) doctrine? That God, the Only Infinite and Eternal God would bow down and pray to another form of God as Jesus did almost non stop, and told us to "always pray" too, so we too could once again be accepted by our Creator as His Children!?

But since the JW's are just another denomination of the Christian Religion, they deny one blasphemy, .. only to make up a dozen more instead of it. That's what religion , .. any religion does, create their own version of god/gods.

Science defines God as Infinite, while religions create gods and give them names, define what these gods can or cannot do, .. what you and I their goats should think and do, .. and interpret the Bible what these poor gods in there really meant to say but just weren't able to because they are diviners, mediums who can connect with the divining spirits who dwell in the supernatural realm and now through their spirits can speak for these gods through divinations.

Jehovahs Witness believes that Lord Christ is just one of his creations and is inferior to God.

OK, .. and? That's what the Bible teaches, so?
What are you going to say next, that they sing hymns too?

Point out what the Christian religions believe that is NOT Biblical, like how the Baptists believe in the triune-plural-multi-gods, at least three, the 7th-D Adventists serve the Sabbath-god, and if you don't bow down to the Sabbath-god you are doomed. Or the JW's believe if you don't call upon their Jehovah-Witness-god by name, you are praying in vain and you will not be one of the, .. what is it up to now, .. 40, 50,000? I don't know anymore, but they better higher the numbers because even with 40,000, 7 million, nine hundred and sixty thousand from the 8 million JW's will be looking for hell, which the JW's closed down. I mean hey, that seems like a nice thing, but it isn't Biblical.

This is a belief that is in a stark contrast to the overwhelming Biblical teaching declaring the fact that Lord Christ is one with God and is God.
I would like to provide here few, yet, very clear and powerful Biblical verses attested to the fact that Lord Crist is indeed God manifested himself in a form of a man.

Who is omnipotent (all powerful)? Philippians 3:20-21

Philippians 3:20 For our citizenship is in heaven, from which we also eagerly wait for the Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ, 21 who will transform our lowly body that it may be conformed to His glorious body, according to the working by which He is able even to subdue all things to Himself.

What, so Mormo was right in telling Joseph Smith that he is God? That Jesus will turn his lowly body into Gods body?? That what God is, man will become?? That God has a body, even this "glorious body" that men will be transformed into??

What will be the difference between God, and us? Or father-god, sun-god and us-gods if we all have the glorious bodies? How about spirit-god, will he finally get a body too? Why is spirit-god (who is actually father god because he is the one who came into Mary where she got pregnant) always left out?

Yes, we will get a glorious body like Gods Son, but God does not have a body, how would you incase Infinite? God is an Invisible Spirit, who is also Holy, and that is what God will always be; and Infinite, Eternal Spirit, whose Glory will shine on His Throne, with Jesus sitting right next to Him. His presence, not some glorious body.

Who is omniscient (all knowing)? Colossians 2:2-3

Colossians 2:2 that their hearts may be encouraged, being knit together in love, and attaining to all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the knowledge of the mystery of God, both of the Father and of Christ, 3 in whom are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.

This is not saying Jesus is all knowing! Where in the world do you get that? This simply says that Jesus came to reveal God to us, because Christ, is in whom are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge. Get it? He is the light that reveals God to us, Gods true character (because in the OT God had to be real tough on His children because of disobedience and unbelief, so He wanted to show them that they could never keep His laws with a pure heart, so he was tough on them, but in reality, He is a gentle and loving God, and Jesus revealed that to us.

And because of this, God has raised Him above all powers and principalities, .. do you actually think God needs to be raised any higher than He is??
He is Infinite and Eternal, the Creator of ALL things including His Son Word, .. how could you raise God any Higher if you say Jesus was fully man and fully God??

Who is omnipresent (present everywhere)? 2 Corinthians 2:14

2 Corinthians 2:14 Now thanks be to God who always leads us in triumph in Christ, and through us diffuses the fragrance of His knowledge in every place.

Where do you see Jesus being present everywhere?

Who is Lord of Sabbath? Matthew 12:8

Who is the great "I am?" John 8:58

John 8:58 Jesus said to them, Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.

There are 760 "I am's" in the Bible, here is another:

Genesis 22:7
But Isaac spoke to Abraham his father and said, My father! And he said, Here I AM, my son. Then he said, Look, the fire and the wood, but where is the lamb for a burnt offering?

There, I capitalized I am in there and turned Abraham into God himself.
"I am Hungry, .. I am 44 years before my son, .. I am alone, .. etc." this does not mean I am God. If Jesus was God, He would have said it straight out as He did everything else. Or do you thing God would be scared to do that?

When Moses asked God "who He was", not when He was, but who He was, .. God answered "I Am Who I Am", that sums up Infinite. "And there is no other God besides Me", again that sums up Infinite, since there cannot be anything or anyone besides something or someone who is already boundless, without borders.

Who is the only creator? John 1:3

John 1:3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.

God created everything through His son Word, .. like binary code in a computer world. God did not create everything through God, or for God, God doesn't need anything, but did it all for His Son. It's all in the Bible.

Ever hire a contractor to build you a house? You build your house "through" your contractor. Only this is a ;little different, God used His son Word as a source of His creation too.

Who is the only savior? Acts 4:12

My God, .. yes, God "SENT" His Son to save the world, remember? Why?
Because God couldn't find anyone else, neither in Heaven, nor on earth who could do it. Remember God is Infinite Spirit, He works through his Creation when He does something.

Who will judge mankind? 2 Corinthians 5:10

Who will judge between the sheep and goats? Matthew 25:31-33

Who sent the prophets? Matthew 23:34

Who is "coming in glory?" Matthew 24:30

Who is the "first and last?" Revelation 1:17

Who is Rock of salvation? 1 Corinthians 10:4

Who is Stone of stumbling? 1 Peter 2:8

After all the above truth, how could an organization like Jehovahs Witness could be considered Christian, represents Christianity or its founder the Lord J. Christ?

Yes, only a Christian Religion, or one of its 40,000 denominations could twist all the above to where they miss everything in there and make Gods Son Word into a deity who lives in the supernatural realm. A deity, like the deified angel Lucifer, the sun-god, or deify the Pope into the Holiest Father, blasphemy, all blasphemy.

I know, I know, who cares.

I apologize for not acknowledging your post #8. One thing for sure, "E.G." got good explanations for his erroneous views.

I didn't follow some of your comments, like Eve representing the Son. That's a new one to me. I think the explanation of John 1:1---"and the Word was God"---that shows that the actual statement of John was "and the Word was a god" is the most reliable explanation. People at that time used the title "god" to refer to powerful humans and angels as well as God Almighty.....the CONTEXT defining the usage, and also the rules for translating from Greek to English must be considered, which "the Word was God" adherents do not consider.

Um, you said that JWs "make up a dozen more" blasphemies, to take the place of the one they deny. That surprised me. Just what would you say are the "blasphemies" that they make up?

I stopped trying to figure out who was saying what, so I'll stop here. I enjoyed many of your comments, but I got confused as to what E.G. was saying and what you were saying.

[onewithhim]

Mankind had no Savior until Jesus died without any sin:

I love the one where Jesus paid our "ransom" for sin to his own father. Christians buy into this ultimate expression of Stockholm Syndrome.

Early Christians and the Church Fathers thought he paid the ransom to Satan to free us from bondage to sin and death.

Oh, wait! That's what is written in the scriptures . . .

So you're agreeing with that? That is way off, I must say. Where does the Bible say that Jesus paid the ransom to Satan???

The fact of it is that Jesus presented the value of his ransom to Jehovah, the Father:

"When Christ came as a high priest of the good things that have come to pass, through the greater and more perfect tent not made with hands, that is, not of this creation, he entered, not with the blood of goats and bulls, but with his own blood, once for all time into the holy place and obtained an everlasting deliverance for us." (Hebrews 9:11,12)

So who accepted his blood sacrifice and who provided deliverance for us (because of His acceptance of Jesus' ransom sacrifice)? Hint: NOT Satan.

[hoghead1]

[Replying to post 205 by catnip]

The only Bible translation that renders Jn. 1 as saying "a god" is the New World translation. All other major Bible translations are dead set against this translation. That also holds with the majority of major New Testament scholars as well, and with good reason, s there is no indefinite article in Greek, Colwell's Rule indicates Theos would take the definite article, the immediate grammatical context would also indicate the same. The NWT is also clearly corrupted at many other places, such as continually to omit Theos and Kurios, inserting instead "Jehovah," which is an incorrect translation of God's name, to start with.

Despite claims for anonymity, the names of the NWT translators are known and not a one had a university degree, let alone any advanced background in NT studies. One of the major lynchpins, Franz, admitted in open court that he could not read Hebrew. And he describe the translation process as largely a matter of teh Holy Spirit communicating with the public-relations department of the Watchtower Society. So the NWT was largely intended as a public-relations piece, not a work of serious scholarship.

Also, in one of its major publications, "Reasoning from the Scriptures," the Watchtower makes no claims for the superiority of the NWT over others and encourages its Witnesses to honor other translations. Good advice, because the average Witness does not even begin to have the background in NT studies to argue for the superiority of the NWT over other translations, to start with.