Other religions..

[Elijah John]

For debate, (addressed primarily to Theists) :

Do you see other religions, (and people who practice other religions) as enemies? Competitors? Or allies in the quest to bring people to God and His ways?

[Monta]

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[dio9]

[Replying to post 50 by Blastcat]

Do I really have to explain what consciousness of everything all around us means? the consciousness of the five senses for starters and then the mind .

[Blastcat]

[Replying to post 52 by dio9]

[center]Fallacious Religious Reasoning:
Thinking that poetry is philosophy, Part 2.[/center]

Do I really have to explain what consciousness of everything all around us means?

That would be up to you.

You ONLY have to answer questions if you want to make yourself understandable to others. I'm not forcing you to do anything. I wouldn't mind at all if you made yourself comprehensible.

the consciousness of the five senses for starters and then the mind .

I agreed already that HUMANS have minds.. but you were talking about some "universal " consciousness.. I have no idea what that means, or how you got that information.

By "the 5 senses", are your referring to human senses?
By "mind" are you referring to human minds?

Because I believe that humans exist, that we have minds and that we have what is described as the "5 senses".

Just to remind people, I will quote you:

"2. Talking about your mind. Don't know if this makes sense but you are the consciousness of the universe. One of many all be it but conscious just the same. "

What do you mean by "consciousness of the universe"? Do you mean "There are humans within the know universe who appear to have "consciousness". ? Because I would agree with that. People are self aware.. We are within the known universe. I don't know how you figured out that the universe is self aware. To me, your thinking represents a fantastic leap of logic.

Do you believe that because humans have "consciousness" that the universe has? That idea might be poetic.. but hardly rational,

It's a category mistake for starters.

Humans are not the entire set of existence, but a mere part of that set.
We have proof that humans have a consciousness ( ill defined as that concept is ) but what evidence do we have that the entire universe has a mind?


Data please?
Or are you confusing poetic license with philosophical discourse again?

[dio9]

[Replying to post 53 by Blastcat]

just off the top of my head, you are the consciousness of the universe dig it.

later dio.

[onewithhim]

For debate, (addressed primarily to Theists) :

Do you see other religions, (and people who practice other religions) as enemies? Competitors? Or allies in the quest to bring people to God and His ways?

I see other religious institutions as enemies. I believe they propagate falsehoods and that falsehoods lead others who accept them, thereby setting up those other people for death. Many people are discarding those falsehoods and getting out of "Babylon the Great," which I believe is the world-wide empire of false religion. (Revelation 18:4) So many people are getting out of a precarious situation. You can see that I don't regard individuals as enemies. If I did, I wouldn't go door to door to bring the Good News to people.

I don't look at individuals that adhere to other religions as "competitors," either. The religious institutions that they go along with are misleading and corrupt, but individuals can be reasoned with. Furthermore, only God can judge the individuals. The institutions he has already judged, and their fates are outlined in Revelation chapters 17-19.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to Blastcat]

I like learning about the practices of other religions. How well these may connect me with the sacred.

Only this morning I was thinking how fascinating it would be visiting a Hindu heaven with all their spiritual traditions etc.
Swedenborg says that heavens are different for different faiths and very different all the way from the most ancient people (they still live in huts) to today.

Swedenborg sounds like he was speaking from the bottom of a bottle. How short-sighted he apparently was about the nature of God! There can't be thousands of different TRUTHS. There is ONE truth for the one true God. Is Swedenborg more spiritually in tune than the Apostle Paul? "I exhort you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you all agree and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be made complete in the SAME MIND and in the same judgment." (I Corinthians 1:10, NASB) Where is there room here for different faiths?

Is Swedenborg more spiritually correct than Jesus Christ? Apparently Jesus thought that there was just ONE WAY. "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through me." (John 14:6)

A person can refute that thinking all they want, and that is their personal prerogative, but in the end I put my bets on Paul and his Lord, Jesus. Jesus might just come when someone has his head in some Hindu heaven along with the nasty elephant god Ganesha and the many-armed god Nataraja, or the goddess Durga with human heads hanging from her hair.

[Blastcat]

[Replying to post 55 by onewithhim]




[center]Fallacious Religious Reasoning:
Institutions are not composed of people[/center]



Please note: onewithhim has unfortunately chosen to ignore my posts, so if any other Christian would like to answer my questions below, I'd be grateful.

Thank you.

I see other religious institutions as enemies. I believe they propagate falsehoods and that falsehoods lead others who accept them, thereby setting up those other people for death.

You make a great case for "Crusade" against those enemy religious institutions.
We should not allow people set up other people for death like that.

I don't look at individuals that adhere to other religions as "competitors," either. The religious institutions that they go along with are misleading and corrupt, but individuals can be reasoned with.

Not Blastcat, apparently.
Perhaps that's why onewithhim chooses to ignore me.

Furthermore, only God can judge the individuals. The institutions he has already judged, and their fates are outlined in Revelation chapters 17-19.

____________

Questions:

1. You say that religious institutions are your "enemy". Would you support a religious war?
2. What do you consider composes religious institutions, if not PEOPLE who can be reasoned with?
3. When you judge religious institutions, are you not judging the people who make UP the religious institutions?
____________

[Elijah John]

For debate, (addressed primarily to Theists) :

Do you see other religions, (and people who practice other religions) as enemies? Competitors? Or allies in the quest to bring people to God and His ways?

I see other religious institutions as enemies. ...

Seems this kind of thinking is the result of misplaced focus, imo. Exclusionary Evangelicals and Jehovah's Witnesses focus on the differences, instead of what the great religions have in common.

What they have in common is love of God and Neighbor. Treating others as you would have them treat you. The Golden Rule and variations thereof.

Jesus considered this the essence of true religion. Called these tenants the "Law and the Prophets".

So how could other religions which also preach the Golden Rule be considered "enemies" if they are (in essence) preaching the same thing that Jesus preached?

[onewithhim]

For debate, (addressed primarily to Theists) :

Do you see other religions, (and people who practice other religions) as enemies? Competitors? Or allies in the quest to bring people to God and His ways?

I see other religious institutions as enemies. ...

Seems this kind of thinking is the result of misplaced focus, imo. Exclusionary Evangelicals and Jehovah's Witnesses focus on the differences, instead of what the great religions have in common.

What they have in common is love of God and Neighbor. Treating others as you would have them treat you. The Golden Rule and variations thereof.

Jesus considered this the essence of true religion. Called these tenants the "Law and the Prophets".

So how could other religions which also preach the Golden Rule be considered "enemies" if they are (in essence) preaching the same thing that Jesus preached?

Because they preach other things that he definitely did NOT preach. Other religions support war that God has no part in (the wars of the O.T. were wars that Jehovah was directly involved in, telling Israel exactly what and when and to whom they should fight against; today's wars are not leaning on God's direct instructions). They teach of a hideous, sadistic place that God has prepared for wicked humans, where they will literally burn unceasingly, in agony. They teach of a conscious spirit that separates from the body at death and that has almost a universal understanding that this disembodied spirit can and will harm humans, sometimes in the most hideous ways. Are these loving teachings? Are these other religions teaching their followers to "love as you would want to be loved"? How can you say that these religions, though teachings the teachings of demons, have great value because they also teach love? What is wrong with that picture? Have you ever heard of someone talking "out of both sides of their mouth," so to speak?

[Elijah John]

For debate, (addressed primarily to Theists) :

Do you see other religions, (and people who practice other religions) as enemies? Competitors? Or allies in the quest to bring people to God and His ways?

I see other religious institutions as enemies. ...

Seems this kind of thinking is the result of misplaced focus, imo. Exclusionary Evangelicals and Jehovah's Witnesses focus on the differences, instead of what the great religions have in common.

What they have in common is love of God and Neighbor. Treating others as you would have them treat you. The Golden Rule and variations thereof.

Jesus considered this the essence of true religion. Called these tenants the "Law and the Prophets".

So how could other religions which also preach the Golden Rule be considered "enemies" if they are (in essence) preaching the same thing that Jesus preached?

Because they preach other things that he definitely did NOT preach. Other religions support war that God has no part in (the wars of the O.T. were wars that Jehovah was directly involved in, telling Israel exactly what and when and to whom they should fight against; today's wars are not leaning on God's direct instructions). They teach of a hideous, sadistic place that God has prepared for wicked humans, where they will literally burn unceasingly, in agony. They teach of a conscious spirit that separates from the body at death and that has almost a universal understanding that this disembodied spirit can and will harm humans, sometimes in the most hideous ways. Are these loving teachings? Are these other religions teaching their followers to "love as you would want to be loved"? How can you say that these religions, though teachings the teachings of demons, have great value because they also teach love? What is wrong with that picture? Have you ever heard of someone talking "out of both sides of their mouth," so to speak?

What if you folks are wrong on subjects like soul-sleep and hell? What remains. The things we can be sure of is the preaching of love, the speculation of these other things you mentioned are needlessly divisive, imo.

Seems you are making special exemption for war in the OT.

And if the allies didn't intervene in WWII to stop Hitler, don't you think even more Jews and Jehovah's Witnesses would have been murdered?

If you want to extend the pacifist logic, why not just disband the police, so folks could "turn the other cheek" to murderous criminals?

Police make war on criminals, don't ya think that is a good thing?

If so, some sides in war are plainly evil and some are good. ISIS is pure evil and have to be stopped by whatever means necessary.

Or are you OK with more burned, drowned and crucified Christians, Jews, and Muslims who oppose them?

Or are you waiting for Jesus to step up to the plate? How many more innocents must be tortured and die while we wait...passively?