Do demons get a bad rap?

[Willum]

So we all know all know the tale of how Satan, who will be defined as the Serpent or the Devil or Lucifer, or etc. for purposes of this OP, led 1/3 of the angels in heaven to the fall. This is also an assumption of the OP.

Satan, Lou Cypher, et &al., is often depicted in media as not evil, but a rebel against God, even a champion for freewill.
And who could blame him seeing the antics of this God? God drowns the world because he lets his angels breed, then doesn't have the good sense to start over with another garden...

When we look at these events, we, and certainly the media has often expressed sympathy for the Devil. Maybe he did simply want man to know the truth and is getting a bad rap.

But that is not what the OP is about.

This is about the demons or his fallen angels.

These folks are always depicted as deviant and chaotic and evil.
But isn't it more likely that they fall about some kind of spectrum?

Perhaps the best of demons, were they to chose again, would really have chosen not to rebel, and conversely, some angels would, given a choice, choose to rebel.

I know I would.

So, is it more likely that demons, if they actually existed, are not all as they are depicted in media, fathomless malevolent evil, but there are ambivalent, even good demons? Or losing the bias:

It is possible there are ambivalent, even good fallen angels?
Is there anything, other than logic, to support this view?

[Tired of the Nonsense]

[Replying to Willum]

Bad demon rap.

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 1 by Willum]

Demons are like child molesters, if they get a "bad rap" it can never be bad enough for the harm they cause.

JW


[youtube][/youtube]

[Divine Insight]

Is there anything, other than logic, to support this view?

How could logic support the view that angels rebelled in a perfect heaven?

If there exists a God who has a perfect heavenly kingdom, then why would 33% of the residents of that kingdom not be happy there? So we already have a huge logical contradiction right there.

Also what would have happened if 66% of the angels rebelled? Would their leader Satan have then "won the war" and took over God's position as the King of Heaven? If so, then God's power must depend on the size of his angel army just like a mortal King's power depends on the size of his army.

Also where did these angels originally come from? Did this God create these angels? If so then doesn't this suggest that this Creator God only has a 66% success rate in creating Angels the way he would like for them to be? And if he has a 33% failure rate how could he be said to be a "perfect" creator?

In this fairytale things get far worse with humans. When this God creates humans the first thing that happens is the the TWO humans he had originally created turn on him and reject his authority. So with humans he has a 100% failure rate as a creator.

Later, he has to drown out very close to 100% of all humans because they have all turn against him. He saves only a very few humans in a wooden boat, but supposedly they aren't "sinless" either. Moreover, this event doesn't appear to have done anything at all to remedy the situation. After that he has to send his son to earth through the virgin birth of a mortal woman to offer undeserved amnesty to a few humans who had already chosen to rebel against this God's rules. And according to his son Jesus only FEW humans will accept this undeserved amnesty. And apparently even those people don't seem to be fully aware of what that even means because they seem to think that Heaven will be how they would like for it to be rather than imagining it as God might like it to be even though they may not approve of his sense of morality.

In the end I think this fairytale was just very poorly thought-out and written. And yes the demons get a bad rap because even if they are truly evil no one could be blamed for that but their creator anyway. The blame for anything they do must necessarily be on the shoulders of their creator. An omnipotent omniscient creator should be able to figure out what is causing the defect and repair the defect. It's simple. There is no excuse for an omnipotent omniscient creator to have ever created a demon in the first place.

So it's just an illogical self-contradictory fairytale. That's all it can be.

[DanieltheDragon]

[Replying to post 1 by Willum]

As we all know history is written by the victor. Perhaps, everything written about demons is a lie. God has the biggest kill count in the bible anyways. What if those that rebelled against God were morally compelled win or lose tofight against such Tyranny?

[Willum]

[Replying to post 1 by Willum]

As we all know history is written by the victor. Perhaps, everything written about demons is a lie. God has the biggest kill count in the bible anyways. What if those that rebelled against God were morally compelled win or lose to fight against such Tyranny?

Yeah, I am all about that interpretation. Maybe 1/3 of the angels just said, "Who wants to live in a universe with that guy as God anyway?"

I am pretty sure I'd be in their ranks, and I don't vomit pea soup.
I mean, the tally according to the Bible is what, the Earth is ~10000 years old.

Is 10000 years of freedom worth an eternity under a terracide? It is a very good question.

[marco]

[Replying to post 1 by Willum]

Demons are like child molesters, if they get a "bad rap" it can never be bad enough for the harm they cause.

The lesson one can extract from your sing-song video is that Jehovah allows children to starve, when he is capable of doing something about it. A list of evils is given but no mention that Jehovah, the loving and merciful overseer, has done a good job of overseeing. Satan did not create the universe - Jehovah is credited with that great opus. Thus the video is a condemnation of what Jehovah has done. Odd really.

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 1 by Willum]As we all know history is written by the victor.

This is true when speaking about history as recorded by humans. Presuming there is a God however, and presuming that one is just, we could arguably have confidence in the truthfulness of his presentation of the facts.

JW

[marco]

Presuming there is a God however, and presuming that one is just, we could arguably have confidence in the truthfulness of his presentation of the facts.

You missed out a further presumption: that the interpretation person A gives to some passage is the one intended, rather than one of the many others chosen by rival groups of believers. God works in wondrous ways his message to conceal. But presumption finds a way to the truth!

[JehovahsWitness]

It is possible there are ambivalent, even good fallen angels?
Is there anything, other than logic, to support this view?

I suppose anything is possible. Except most people don't accept the notion of a universal standard of what "good" is, so it would be hard to establish objectively what a "good fallen angel" would theoretically look like.

The bible presents "fallen angels" as powerful intelligent beings of superhuman force that are not adverse to presenting themselves in a favorable light. One could argue that the most logical thing for them to do is indeed pretend to be "good" as defined by any given group in order to manipulate those in that group, if that were their aim.