What If...?

[theStudent]

Currently, I am doing what was suggested by some on these forums.
I am researching information both for, and against evolution, and trust me - I am doing so objectively.
While I am still researching, I want to put this out, to hear the different views on it.

During my research I discovered that lately, just over the last decade or so, a lot of informations has been surfacing about fake fossils.
In fact it has now become common place for fossils sold at museums to be checked for genuineness.
I find this interesting.

Why now, is this happening?
Could it be that evidence as it always does, is now surfacing?

For example
Remember the dinosaur hoax - the one that was said to be put together using different bones?
It has recently been found out that it wasn't a hoax after all.
http://www.foxnews.com/science/2015/02/ ... ecies.html

That is quite interesting.

The fossils aren't the only things that were/are claimed to be fake.
There are the drawings, and pictures as well.
Right now, I am going through a very long document considered a case against some of Darwins picture illustrations.
But have you ever come across this one?

Pictures from the past powerfully shape current views of the world. In books, television programs, and websites, new images appear alongside others that have survived from decades ago. Among the most famous are drawings of embryos by the Darwinist Ernst Haeckel in which humans and other vertebrates begin identical, then diverge toward their adult forms. But these icons of evolution are notorious, too: soon after their publication in 1868, a colleague alleged fraud, and Haeckels many enemies have repeated the charge ever since. His embryos nevertheless became a textbook staple until, in 1997, a biologist accused him again, and creationist advocates of intelligent design forced his figures out. How could the most controversial pictures in the history of science have become some of the most widely seen?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ernst_Haeckel
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Haec ... eks4-6.jpg
English: The pictures illustrate Ernst Haeckel's biogenetic law. In the beginning embryos of different species look remarkable similar, later different characteristics develop. The images initiated controversies and charges of fraud.

All of this lends to a possibility.
Consdering the fact that fossils can be faked, we must accept the fact that Darwin, and other scientists could have lied.

My question here, isn't whether he did lie or not, but rather, Does this not place evolutionists in the same position as the Christians they claim are believing in fables?

Consider:
Christians accept the Bible, as the word of God.
Here are just a few facts about the Bible.
With estimated total sales of over 5 billion copies, the Bible is widely considered to be the best-selling book of all time.
It has estimated annual sales of 100 million copies.
It has been a major influence on literature and history, especially in the West where the Gutenberg Bible was the first mass-printed book.
It was the first book ever printed using movable type.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bible

Archaeological findings of the Dead Sea Scrolls, also called the Qumran Caves https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_Sea_Scrolls

The evidence is there however, that the book we hold in our hand today (the Bible), contains information written centuries ago.

Atheist call the book fables - the reason I have yet to find out.
Maybe one of the reasons is that they have not seen God, or seen him write any book - whatever.
So they claim that Christians' belief in them and what they present is blind faith, and belief in stories.

However, is this not the case with those who accept the theory of evolution, where all they have to go by, is what scientists claim to be evidence?

By the way...
No one, to this day have seen them recreate the theories.
Any data they give you on species, is usually what already existed (at least what I have come across so far).
As regards other claims, all we have are pictures, and claimed fossils, which could have been edited.

So evolutionists are really believing what men claim - without any substantial proof of their claim.
How is this different to believing a book?

And what if Darwin, and others lied?


I'm just interested in you different opinions and thoughts, on the above.
Here is a nice short video of someone's opinion. Reasonable too.

[arian]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVw_mPvYcDM

You see all the references to 666CERN and the LHC, .. so yes, voodoo, unless you have a better name for it?

I'm sorry, I don't see what you are talking about. I see an odd opening ceremony for a tunnel that is basically a parade with some interpretive dance. What's that got to do with the actual scientists doing their jobs with the equipment? If I stood outside your house and peed on your flowers should your neighbors assume you enjoy smelling urine?

If I hired you and a bunch of other Landscapers to pee on my flowers (like the Tunnel Opening Celebration), .. of course my neighbors would think that! I mean they must have spent millions on this parade, they must have thought it out real good and planned it, and it is a tribute to the devil. I mean come on, .. even a child could see that they just love Lucifer!

It's one thing to spend tens of thousands of dollars to develop a really powerful microscope to examine human cells and find the genetic blueprint of man like the DNA, .. and another to spend Millions and Billions of dollars to build a giant pipeline to see if they could recreate a religious Priests dream where he seen/imagined seeing our universe Big-Banging in nothing, where it started to create space for itself to expand in and time as it expanded, OK?

Perhaps it would be best to actually go to the site that explains the science and motivations from the people who actually use the equipment in question:

http://home.cern/about

At CERN, the European Organization for Nuclear Research, physicists and engineers are probing the fundamental structure of the universe. They use the world's largest and most complex scientific instruments to study the basic constituents of matter " the fundamental particles. The particles are made to collide together at close to the speed of light. The process gives the physicists clues about how the particles interact, and provides insights into the fundamental laws of nature.

LOL, .. here, let's build a 3 billion dollar calculator so we could get some insights into the fundamental laws of mathematics!

News Flash!
The first test of the 3 billion dollar calculator after crunching some of the biggest mathematical problems known to man at the near speed of light, is finally out!

[center]"1+1=2"[/center]

We now have the answer to everything, .,. the god-equation.

Don't you think spending BILLION$ on something that NEVER HAPPENED just to hope to prove a religious epiphany like the BB-Evolution story is ludicrous?

You clearly have no clue what the scientists at CERN are actually doing or trying to achieve. You say it's ok to develop a big microscope, then throw the LHC under the bus. Guess what? The LHC is basically a big microscope used to detect sub atomic particles. They smash atoms together and see what pops out. It's the adult version of what I used to do as a kid. Take things apart to see what's inside.

I believe it is YOU who doesn't understand. Science has been taking things apart, rocks etc. to see what's inside for the past 6,000 years, what they're doing at the LHC is hoping that once they find the sub-atomic God-particle, a parallel universe will Big-Bang into being, .. based on a Jesuit Priests epiphany!

Were you hoping to create your dads watch (or whatever you took apart) when you took it all apart? No, .. because you have far more sense than that. But the gods at 666CERN lack even that much sense, so now you know why they dance like that, with music like that.

Why not go to the moon, and actually take some real photos of it, and of earth while there, .. huh? Or spend $50.00 to turn that multi-billion dollar Hubble 180 degrees and give us a days worth of actual photos of Earth!? Or of those supposed planets around us instead of all them CGI artist-renderings??

Are you trying to suggest we don't have actual photos now? You do realize more than one nation has done what you are asking for. If any one nation was trying to pull a fast one, they would have already been hung out to dry to the absolute glee of the other nations. Unless of course you think all humanity is against you. For that I would suggest a larger tin foil hat. I use the heavy duty foil on mine and a chin strap so it doesn't fall off and let the evil thoughts in.

You know very well that Lucifer is the god of this earth, and he has chosen a nation to control the whole world, his world, and as the Bible says: "They ALL worship the beast!" even sacrificing their own children, torturing them slowly for years with deadly chemical and radiation. Go visit any Children's Cancer Hospital, and you will see what I mean!
Tin foil hat, .. are you serious? Does that comment even work today where everyone is like zombies, following cues from TV and movies and respond accordingly.

I mean look at the last 4-5 presidential elections, a joke. But the last one (Obama and his husband) and this one coming up breaks the camels back. I mean I actually hear people talking about Mrs. Clinton and Trump, as if this was a real election with them being part in it!?!? Now how crazy is that?

"Well I think Clinton, .. or I think Trump would make a better president." instead of falling on their knees and crying out to God weeping: "Oh Lord save us, Help Us God, we have completely gone bonkers, look where we ended up! All because we let Satan hypnotize us with his Movie-Magic" (I'm sure you herd that term Movie-magic used a lot, cause Satan likes to rub it in)

I know, how about spending a few billion on an apparatus creating pixy-dust, I sure would buy some so I could fly!

Or you could just spend a few thousand and go get your pilots license. Worked for me. I couldn't find pixy dust, so it was the only option.

So I could see how flat the earth is? I've done that, in San Diego. But pixy dust seems like a good investment, no? What have they gotten from smashing imaginary particles? Nothing, oh wait, they did show us some spaghetti like dot matrix printed picture, .. how's was that worth 3 billion dollars?

You know they are not smashing particles to "discover things", but these crazy people (see commercials on 666CERN, the LHC, etc.) are hoping to create a universe based on science fiction imaginations.

Perhaps you should arrange a visit if you are worried: http://visit.cern/tours

I'm not that lame, like people visiting the San Diego Mormon Temple and join Mormonism because they become so impressed with the architecture: "Oh, sooo beautiful, .. like a taste of the heavenly Mansions", .. No movie prop will impress me, I've seen just about enough of the LHC-Temple, impressive movie props I do admit.
Like the 747 ISS, .. I laugh every time I see the passengers AKA Astronauts red puffy faces as they're trying to hold their stomach down on each free fall.

I like their movies better, like "Gravity", .. what proper name and a perfect pun because it doesn't exist (gravity that is), just like in the movie.

If they were observing "parallel universes" with the LHC, and recording that to see if they could replicate that somehow, now that I would understand! Or if they were creating humans by changing the environment and the food of monkeys, now that would be science.

Smashing particles together and observing the results isn't science? Do you even know what science is?

Yes, I know what science is, learning about Gods creation, but that is NOT what they are doing. They are hoping to create a universe, they claim they already know everything about it. BB-Evolution is fact, remember? And in science a fact is when you have learned everything there was to learn about an experiment. So they are hoping to create a universe, not learn of it.

That part is to the sheep, so they would not wake up and tear the Luciferian place down, for ripping us all off like that with so many lies.

Or "observing" different quantum particles for contractions, or monitoring them as because of gravity they are getting denser and hotter, .. hey, that would be some evidence of the possibility of them Big-Banging and creating Spacetime! That would be something worthwhile. But like I said, going on some sci-fi never observed fairytale, they might as well spend a few billion on hoping to create pixy dust, .. why not?

You seem all bent out of shape that doing actual science might destroy your ancient beliefs. If you think they are just doing some voodoo, then why complain about it. You should be happy because they will never discover anything. Meanwhile in the real world, the scientists will continue doing their actual research and discovering more about the building blocks of of the universe.

Hmm, let's see now; before the BB-Evolution religion, we were humans created in our Creators Image. After a hundred years of disturbing graves and digging up skull&bones now we are animals, with ancestors of rats, .. and you want to call that science, .. ok.

Again, read my post. I can breed dogs, heck even horses, not just bacteria. What I asked for is proof of evolution, that something can come out of nothing.

As Adam Savage and Jamie Hyneman from Mythbusters liked to say "Well there's your problem" as they point at an empty engine cavity or otherwise obvious missing piece.

Evolution has nothing to do with something coming out of nothing. I can't believe after all this time you still make this mistake. You're not new here so I know you know what evolution actually states. Enjoy your strawman though, makes for great diversions.

Evolution is evolution, it had a start, where do you want the start, .. 13.7 billion years, 10 billion, 6 billion, 4.2 billion, .. where?
In any case speciation doesn't happen during an animals lifetime, so it really doesn't matter where you start evolution, it never happened, by your own story.

How about this, I'll even provide a heated 100 lb. rock, (I don't know if we could squeeze it till it reaches 3.2 gazillion degrees, but hey if gravity can do that to a quantum speck like a string, it should have no problem squeezing a 100 lb. rock to reach that heat, right? After all, we already have gravity, it don't even have to evolve it. Save a lot of time-before-time, right?) and lets see it can sweat sea water and create an atmosphere!?

I don't even know what you are trying to say there. It sounds like you took 2 words from every scientific theory you don't like, mashed them all together and changed all the 'sciencey' words into random objects.

Heck, that ain't sciencey, I was referring to the BB-Evolution religion, built on blind faith like all religions are.

Now again, if I gave you a heated rock, what medium would you need for it to do the Big-bang? This happened before space, before time, before this illusion called gravity, so here is your rock, nice and hot at exactly 3.2 gazillion degrees. What comes next? What would you need next so we can come to, and talk about the next phase of evolution!?

The Priests at the LHC think all you need is to find the most basic element/particle/whatever and wait, the rest Will Happen!?

Hey, thanks for responding buddy, it's a debate right? I seen you respond to far more ludicrous topics/comments than mine, so no damage done, right?

God bless you my friend.

Well, you might have me there. I've responded to some pretty 'odd' stuff. Some of your comments are getting pretty close though

Have a good one.

I hear you, like I keep saying, science is dead, R.I.P. science. Satan has succeeded in turning everything upside down, and then he makes movies out of this upside down world, just to mock us, yet we all go pay good money to see it.

I'm wondering if there is ANYONE out there who can reason outside of religion? So many wonderful people, so well versed in the Bible, so many intelligent people so well versed in science, .. yet they both conclude in religion. The final result is a religious one, both of God and science. It's hopeless because people have gotten so used to religion, they are afraid to step outside of it.

God bless.

[DeMotts]

[Replying to post 698 by arian]

Just want to jump in here and ask quickly - do you actually think that the ISS is a 747 flying in parabolic arcs? I mean you can see the ISS through a telescope, you can watch an uncut hour long tour of the ISS on youtube with a host on camera, floating the whole time... I'm intrigued by this one as it seems so outlandish, and really colours all your other statements.

[Neatras]

I like their movies better, like "Gravity", .. what proper name and a perfect pun because it doesn't exist (gravity that is), just like in the movie.

I don't know how else to put this, but I don't actually think there can ever be any kind of constructive debate if we allow this statement to go without criticism.

I really hope arian's just making another tasteless joke.

[Tired of the Nonsense]

[Replying to arian]

I like their movies better, like "Gravity", .. what proper name and a perfect pun because it doesn't exist (gravity that is), just like in the movie.

We will all patiently await the day when you trip and float off into space.

[benchwarmer]

If I hired you and a bunch of other Landscapers to pee on my flowers (like the Tunnel Opening Celebration), .. of course my neighbors would think that! I mean they must have spent millions on this parade, they must have thought it out real good and planned it, and it is a tribute to the devil. I mean come on, .. even a child could see that they just love Lucifer!

You think the scientists doing the research put on the parade? Granted someone put on what you think is a worship ceremony, but the actual scientists doing their research did not. You weave a great conspiracy story though, I'll give you that.

LOL, .. here, let's build a 3 billion dollar calculator so we could get some insights into the fundamental laws of mathematics!

LOL indeed. Let's ignore reality and make up a cool story. You win the story contest.

I believe it is YOU who doesn't understand. Science has been taking things apart, rocks etc. to see what's inside for the past 6,000 years, what they're doing at the LHC is hoping that once they find the sub-atomic God-particle, a parallel universe will Big-Bang into being, .. based on a Jesuit Priests epiphany!

That's another great story. Where do you get this stuff?

Were you hoping to create your dads watch (or whatever you took apart) when you took it all apart? No, .. because you have far more sense than that. But the gods at 666CERN lack even that much sense, so now you know why they dance like that, with music like that.

Umm, the scientists aren't dancing, they're busy doing research. If you want to actually know what they're up to maybe check out some of the actual published results instead of searching for odd youtube videos of dancing.

You know very well that Lucifer is the god of this earth, and he has chosen a nation to control the whole world, his world, and as the Bible says: "They ALL worship the beast!" even sacrificing their own children, torturing them slowly for years with deadly chemical and radiation. Go visit any Children's Cancer Hospital, and you will see what I mean!

No I don't know that. Are you seriously calling advanced chemotherapy and radiation treatments a form of sacrificing children by torture? Would you rather they waste away at home while people dance around and wave their hands over them? You're seriously insulting the scientists and medical professionals who are trying to save the most precious of our species. Maybe you should go talk to some cancer survivors and see how they feel about it? I can usually just laugh off your delusions, but this one is perilously close to causing me to earn a warning or two. You're a great button pusher, I'll give you that.

Like the 747 ISS, .. I laugh every time I see the passengers AKA Astronauts red puffy faces as they're trying to hold their stomach down on each free fall.

I like their movies better, like "Gravity", .. what proper name and a perfect pun because it doesn't exist (gravity that is), just like in the movie.

Well what little credibility you had is completely gone now. You think the ISS is a fake and gravity isn't real? Are you too scared to actually borrow a telescope and look at the ISS yourself? Or maybe you think Lucifer will hold a cardboard cutout in the sky while you do it thereby confusing you into believing? I'm not even sure what the gravity comment is about. What exactly do you think causes things to fall down? Demons? That's some good kool-aid you must be drinking.

Evolution is evolution, it had a start, where do you want the start, .. 13.7 billion years, 10 billion, 6 billion, 4.2 billion, .. where?

Doesn't matter where it starts. Evolution is about how organisms change over time, not how they got there in the first place. Nice try though.

In any case speciation doesn't happen during an animals lifetime, so it really doesn't matter where you start evolution, it never happened, by your own story.

You clearly have no idea what 'my story' is. According to evolution speciation doesn't happen during any one organisms lifetime either. No evolution happens during the lifetime of the organism in question. Reproduction is required.

Looking forward to your next round of conspiracy theories.

Peace out.

[arian]

[Replying to post 698 by arian]

Just want to jump in here and ask quickly - do you actually think that the ISS is a 747 flying in parabolic arcs? I mean you can see the ISS through a telescope, you can watch an uncut hour long tour of the ISS on youtube with a host on camera, floating the whole time... I'm intrigued by this one as it seems so outlandish, and really colours all your other statements.

I heard you can see the ISS sometimes with the naked eye, seen regular camera photos of it from earth too. Yep, the size of a big School Bus at 249 miles away, and can be seen with the naked eye. What you cannot see is the black weather balloon code name Mir flying in the Jetstream with a shiny toy hanging from it.

It takes many shots and props in the 747 to get that video you shown.

You ever free fall, hard to keep your eyes from puffing up, right? The guys/gals AKA Astronauts who are not puffy-eyed are photo shopped in.

God bless you my friend.

[arian]

I like their movies better, like "Gravity", .. what proper name and a perfect pun because it doesn't exist (gravity that is), just like in the movie.

I don't know how else to put this, but I don't actually think there can ever be any kind of constructive debate if we allow this statement to go without criticism.

I really hope arian's just making another tasteless joke.

Joke?
Imagine a movie called "Space" and everyone in it are crawling on their belly throughout the movie because of their weight!? Man, .. I'd be insulted, why you call the movie space when it's obvious no one can even stand up, .. is that a tasteless joke!? Or mocking us sheep?

[arian]

[Replying to arian]

I like their movies better, like "Gravity", .. what proper name and a perfect pun because it doesn't exist (gravity that is), just like in the movie.

We will all patiently await the day when you trip and float off into space.

The only "space" man will ever experience in this lifetime is in Sci-Fi movies, and the 747 "Free-Fall" Jet.
Get your tickets to go on the 747 ISS for 5 minutes, .. no eating or drinking 12 hours before boarding the ISS. Puke stains the props, which you taxpayers paid billions and billions of dollars for, he, he, he!

[Neatras]

All right, this massive detour has gone on long enough. As one would have expected, arian has substituted a majestically absurd red herring in to replace an actual argument, and while I did gawk at it, there's no longer any meaning behind listening to what he has to say.

I'm especially interested in what moderators might have to say about how to engage with someone who believes gravity doesn't exist.

[benchwarmer]

I heard you can see the ISS sometimes with the naked eye, seen regular camera photos of it from earth too. Yep, the size of a big School Bus at 249 miles away, and can be seen with the naked eye. What you cannot see is the black weather balloon code name Mir flying in the Jetstream with a shiny toy hanging from it.

Well, I have seen the ISS with the naked eye. It looks like a moving star.

If you want to see it for yourself you can get all the info you need from here:

https://spotthestation.nasa.gov/

That fact that you think it's a weather balloon with a toy hanging off it tells us a lot.

It takes many shots and props in the 747 to get that video you shown.

You ever free fall, hard to keep your eyes from puffing up, right? The guys/gals AKA Astronauts who are not puffy-eyed are photo shopped in.

God bless you my friend.

Please provide evidence for your claims. You're either in total denial or just trying to pull our chain. I'm starting to guess the latter given the ridiculousness of some of your claims.