Zeus or Jehovah, who is better?

[Willum]

Zeus leads his pantheon of angels and vicars on Earth, and under Zeus' divine wisdom, man received the following gifts.

Modern languages, Astronomy, Philosophy; many philosophies, Education, Mathematics, Architecture, concrete, refined sciences, surgery and medicine, Roads, the Calendar, history, news, public welfare: the supply of vegetables in winter (preventing scurvy and health problems), and supply of meats and grain in winter, bound books, roads, modern law, many engineerings, the modern alphabet, glass, light houses, mills, glazed pottery, modern soap and this is not a complete list, and possibly the most important invention, the one that makes a city modern and healthy, even today, the clean water and sewage system. How one gets to his heaven is righteousness and heroism.
Famine,mortality and infant deaths approached modern times.

Yahweh, leads his pantheon of angels and vicars on Earth, and performed the following:

He came after, whom essentially stripped away every one of Zeus' benefits, because they were from Zeus, and evil, replacing it with his truth and love, which included superiority of one race over others, a demeaning system of slavery, misogyny, more genocides than any other God, that cleanliness polluted your soul, that this God alone should heal, not men, that math and engineering were sorcery and led you to Hell, that the only truth was from one book, that famine and death were punishment for man's evil, that other schools of thought were evil. Insisted people only be educated in prescribed ways, like that the Sun moved around the Earth, and that nitrogen-fixing crops were against his will, but did say that a non-burdening system of sin removal would get you to heaven. This God also is in close communications with his followers, though not a single one can prove this.

Follow-up question, which one seems more real, one that seems to make judgments from ignorance, harming humanity, or one that seems genuinely interested in weal? Which God would you choose. Feel free to enter in other beneficial characteristics of either god, if you think I've missed any, and propose counter arguments.

[Hawkins]

Doesn't matter - the point is He (Jehovah) has motivated millions of people in the real world, to come out and campaign for Him. Zeus...? Not so much.

Jehovah clearly has more influence than Zeus.

Zeus doesn't even have enough followers to call himself a god. He's a joke.

Perhaps his only followers are those voted in the thread.

[Willum]

[Replying to Elijah John]

Who invented logical thought, the Greeks, who was it's patron god? One of Zeus' 'angels.'
Modern religionists may value reason, but that was not true when Yahweh reigned supreme, the days when the Dark Ages and followers of Yahweh killed anyone with a dissenting idea.

Modern religionists may value reason, now, but that is only as a result of rejecting the Laws of Yahweh which modern religionists consider too archaic to adhere to.

Are Deists Jovian?
So many ways to answer 'yes.'
They continue the proud tradition of stealing pagan beliefs. (The Flood, Tower of Babel, reason.)
Look at the word "Deist," it is derived from Deus, which is derived from Zeus.
and so on.

Are there any ways, 'no?'

Perhaps it would help you to know that Zeus was all-powerful long before Yahweh.

[Hawkins]

[Replying to Elijah John]

Who invented logical thought, the Greeks, who was it's patron god? One of Zeus' 'angels.'
Modern religionists may value reason, but that was not true when Yahweh reigned supreme, the days when the Dark Ages and followers of Yahweh killed anyone with a dissenting idea.

Modern religionists may value reason, now, but that is only as a result of rejecting the Laws of Yahweh which modern religionists consider too archaic to adhere to.

Are Deists Jovian?
So many ways to answer 'yes.'
They continue the proud tradition of stealing pagan beliefs. (The Flood, Tower of Babel, reason.)
Look at the word "Deist," it is derived from Deus, which is derived from Zeus.
and so on.

Are there any ways, 'no?'

Perhaps it would help you to know that Zeus was all-powerful long before Yahweh.

A true God should never treasure human intelligence. The Tree of Knowledge is a warning to humans who choose to rely on their IQ to make a judgment on what could possibly happen after death.

As for humans, it all boils down to the term "Salvation". If salvation doesn't matter, whoever gods don't concern humans. To put it another way, if it's not because of a salvation, you don't need to believe in any gods. It is because of salvation that you need to choose a god who can save you from a hell situation as an advocate of what would happen to your afterlife.

[Willum]

[Replying to post 23 by Hawkins]

It is apparent that Yahwey, in the destruction of human intelligence, has nothing but contempt for it. Yahweh gave us the Tree of Knowledge, and since we are being punished FOR that knowledge, certainly it is our birthright to use it, and judge.
I find my knowledge of 'good and evil' pronounces Yahweh wanting.

Now, may we return to the topic?

[Elijah John]

[Replying to Elijah John]

Who invented logical thought, the Greeks, who was it's patron god? One of Zeus' 'angels.'
Modern religionists may value reason, but that was not true when Yahweh reigned supreme, the days when the Dark Ages and followers of Yahweh killed anyone with a dissenting idea.

Modern religionists may value reason, now, but that is only as a result of rejecting the Laws of Yahweh which modern religionists consider too archaic to adhere to.

Are Deists Jovian?
So many ways to answer 'yes.'
They continue the proud tradition of stealing pagan beliefs. (The Flood, Tower of Babel, reason.)
Look at the word "Deist," it is derived from Deus, which is derived from Zeus.
and so on.

Are there any ways, 'no?'

Perhaps it would help you to know that Zeus was all-powerful long before Yahweh.

You make a good case regarding Deists, but still...the connection between Greek logical thought, and Zeus...

I don't think even the Greeks attributed their reasoning powers to Zeus. They did howver, attributed poetic inspiration to the Muses.

Also who"invented" the Greeks? YHVH. I know, that is somewhat circular, but IF YHVH is the Living God, He invented the Greeks, the Jews, and all from the Nations. And Reason itself. YHVH may be depicted in myths of Genesis to some degree, but He transcends the Bible, and all myths.

Moses, The Psalmists, the writers of Proverbs and the Prophets had a gleaning of YHVH as the Universal, Transcendent and Eternal God.

It is said of YHVH that He has no beginning and no end. Whereas Zeus is the offspring of Chronos and Rhea.

Almighty before YHVH?

Other "gods" in the Greek pantheon were in charge of different aspects of Creation. In fact, as far as I know, Zeus isn't even the Creator God, he has parents after all.

And regarding his character, Zeus was deceptive and promiscuous.

What ethical code has Zeus attatched to his name? Zeus is depicted in images, statues etc. YHVH forbids any attempt to do so with Him, according to His own code. YHVH, in contrast to Zeus, is beyond images.

Also, Muslims, (who worship YHVH under a different name, the same God of Abraham) value Reason.

All through the Qur'an there are verses which end with "these are signs for thinking men". In other words, appeals to Reason.

So by my reckoning, YHVH is way ahead, no contest.

Unless, of course, you are claiming that Zeus transcends the Greek myths as I am claiming YHVH transcends the myths of Genesis.

[Elijah John]

[Replying to post 8 by Willum]

Catholics have never been known for going from door to door preaching and their Pope has banned the pronouncing of the name JEHOVAH in their prayers and services, so obviously I am not talking about them.

JW

Are you certain of this? After all, the Jersusalem and the New Jerusalem translations of the Bible are Roman Catholic editions, the they both use the name "Yahweh" in place of the euphamism "LORD".

Seems odd they would allow this in their Bible and forbid YHVH's mention by name in their prayers and in the Mass.

[Willum]

[Replying to Elijah John]
Yes, the people who wrote the OT had no concept of "all-powerful," until they encountered the Romans. Look at how quiant an porochial Yahweh's powers are until the NT, and Roman influence.
Remember, if you follow history, and not the Bible, the Sadducee, the precursors of the Pharisee, or Modern Jews, were Pagan.
Before that they were those infamous Canaan.

So, Zeus was All-mighty, long before the proto-Jewish rushed to re-write their oral tradition to ensure that Yahwey was better, when they were introduced to the concept of omnipotence by the Greeks/Romans.
Yahwey is the son of Ba'el, who in turn had Dagon as a father, if you believe history and not the oral tradition of the OT. He didn't create the Earth. Yahweh was the "Marduk," character in the Hebrew epic.
But feel free to prove otherwise.

As to the poorer character of Zeus, well, so much of what was real about Zeus and his pantheon was demeaned by Christians in the Dark Ages, that we can't ever really know, can we? Yahweh violated Mary. Zeus had his flings.

But as to the character of Yahwey. He is a terracide. He lied to Abraham. He allowed Jacob to steal the Kingdom of Heaven, Samson was an empowered genocidal idiotic psychopath, and so on. He was vacillating for Moses. Yahweh's character is certainly not capable of casting the first stone.

And in modern times, your expectations of Yahweh have clearly been demonstrated as being unreasonable. As per the OP. He destroyed all the wonders of beneficent Zeus. How does that make his character so great?

(A lack of an image, is still and image, as it conveys exactly as limited a concept as an image does, although nothing is an apt description of Yahweh, IMO.)

What ethical code has Zeus attatched to his name?

The code of Roman Law, the same one that is used just about everywhere today.

What is Yahweh's ethical code, really? Kill anyone who disagrees with you? Plunge the world into ignorance? Help me out here. Yahweh's ethics are the most disregarded ethics anywhere, and if you did transgress them, as you do, even at birth, all you have to do is ask for forgiveness.

[marco]

It is said of YHVH that He has no beginning and no end. Whereas Zeus is the offspring of Chronos and Rhea.

There are different levels on which to take this discussion. One can trivialise and speak jestingly of both Yahweh and Zeus.

But you've introduced many serious points, EJ, and they merit answers. For me, Zeus does not instigate the sort of triumphalism that Yahweh does. I agree he's a fiction but for me, so is Yahweh. We are then looking at the seams of two creations. I don't see that Zeus is anything other than a big, happy schoolboy, endowed with divinity. Yahweh was made to be the token defender of a nomadic people and he was given the extremities of their own faults and virtues. His sanctions are absurdly hard at times over sexual misdemeanours.

You mention the Koran. Allah is a terrifying aspect of Yahweh who is sarcastically called "merciful" when he burns non-believers and puts their skin back so that he can burn them again, for ever and ever. Like Yahweh, he gets himself involved in human skirmishes, in one instance getting birds to drop stones on Muhammad's enemies. You say they extract reason from this - but I don't. In the wrong hands it is a terrifying gospel and we can see why today. If Allah is simply another manifestation of Yahweh, please can we have Zeus, with all his frivolity?

[Elijah John]

[Replying to post 28 by marco]

No Marco, the Quranic "signs for thinking men" that I alluded to are not the warrior commands attributed to Allah, (YHVH) but rather the wonders of nature, Creation.

It is THESE verses that frequently conclude with "these are signs for thinking men". In other words, Islam is somewhat Deistic in this regard, with appeals to Reason and Nature.

I will concede, there is not much "triumphalism" in Paganism, at least not with the Greco-Roman version.

On the other hand, if there IS a Living God, and YHVH IS that Living God, isn't the destruction of false, competing idols and their belief structures a good thing?

Seems such then, would be a virtue and not a vice.

[Elijah John]

[Replying to post 27 by Willum]

The "family tree" of YHVH that you point to is not recognized the Bible.

Also, the code of YHVH is the Ten Commandments.

Roman Law? Please demonstrate a direct connection to Zeus. Or even that Roman Law may have been inspired by Zeus.

The Ten Commandments were said to have been written directly with the finger of YHVH, inscribed in stone.

And contrary to your previous assertion, the 10 Commandments of YHVH are also part and parcel of Western Civilization, and Law. At least the "horizontal ones" the person to person love of neighbor ones are, if not the vertical love of God ones.

The US Supreme Court still has statues of great lawgivers, including Moses and Mohammad.

In Jewish tradition, how we treat each other is more important even than what we believe about God. YHVH God cares about how we treat each other, and that is incorporated into his Code, His Law.

And love and mercy is also part of His character, (Micah 6.6-6.8)...can you say the same of Zeus?

If so, where, how...reference please.

Also, please demonstrate a direct link between Greco-Roman thought and Law, to Zeus.

You have me at a disadvantage here, as you are more familiar with all things Greek and Roman than I, so I appeal to you to provide a reference that demonstrates that link.