Did we Exist Before The Garden of Eden?

[theStudent]

For debate:
Did we all exist in the spirit realm or in another realm before our birth as humans?

[Divine Insight]

That doesn't match up with the Biblical narrative.

Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Clearly Adam was not a living soul prior to this creation from the dust of the ground.

So reincarnation theories are best left to other religious folklore. They simply don't match up with the Biblical narrative.

[postroad]

[Replying to post 1 by theStudent]

If that is accepted would it not also follow that all humanity also existed in the body of Adam?

After all the Bible states that all humanity sinned in the body of Adam.

1 Corinthians 15:21-23New International Version (NIV)

21 For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man. 22 For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. 23 But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him.

Also that Eve who came from Adam was the mother of all humanity.

Genesis 3:20

Adam named his wife Eve, because she would become the mother of all the living

Also the concept of people being in the body of their ancestors.

Hebrews 7:9-10New International Version (NIV)

9 One might even say that Levi, who collects the tenth, paid the tenth through Abraham, 10 because when Melchizedek met Abraham, Levi was still in the body of his ancestor.

.

[JehovahsWitness]

If that is accepted would it not also follow that all humanity also existed in the body of Adam? After all the Bible states that all humanity sinned in the body of Adam.

1 Corinthians 15:21-23New International Version (NIV)

21 For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man. 22 For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. 23 But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him.

Logically this does not mean that everyone that has every been born was literally alive inside the body of Adam as individuals, or that God created Adam and put billions of people inside his body, to live, eat, interact inside his intestines or stomach waiting to be born. Rather when the bible says "death came through a man [adam]" it means Adam was the first to sin and his descendants inherited death because the were his children.

For example, certain diseases or conditions can be passed on from mother (or father) to their children. This doesn't mean the children were already alive, living inside their parents bodies or that they had a prehuman existence, but simply that when their children were conceived by the joining of a sperm from their father and the egg of the mother, they inherited a condition passed on through their genetic code.

That Paul was not suggesting humans had a pre-human life (or that humans had previously been living and sinning literally inside the body of Adam) we have his (Paul's) next statement which reads:

For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.

Paul parallels the death "all" have through Adam with the life all can have through Christ. Christ provided a ransom sacrifice of his life. If people have faith in that sacrifice they can be given everlasting life (see John 3:16). We do not need to have lived with Christ before in heaven to have faith in him, this can be done during our life on earth. In the same way, we do not have to have lived with Adam in heaven (or inside his body) to have inherited Adamic sin, we also have that during our life on earth.






CONCLUSION: When Paul said "in Adam all die" he did not mean people were living, making decisions and sinning inside the body of Adam or that all "humans" in heaven with God before being born. The bible presents the first man Adam as being created a perfect man on earth but after having sinned, passing on the conditions of sin and death to his descendants.



Learn more: Why do people die?
https://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/q ... eople-die/

[polonius]

The Student asked:

Did we all exist in the spirit realm or in another realm before our birth as humans?

RESPONSE: Yes. We existed in the mind of God.

[ttruscott]

After all the Bible states that all humanity sinned in the body of Adam.

1 Corinthians 15:21-23New International Version (NIV)

21 For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man. 22 For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. 23 But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him.

You make an unsubstantiated claim about our getting our sin from Adam then use a verse about our getting death from Adam as support...?

IF we all sinned by our own free will pre-earth then by being born human we are being pointed out as sinners and enter into the death of Adam like it says, not his sin which it doesn't say. WE are put under Adam's death so Christ needs to die once for all sinful elect and not once for each sinful elect.

IF GOD created us as sinners without our free will decision to sin then HE is the cause of any sin we do, not us. We are not guilty if we did not choose by our free will to rebel against HIM. There is no need for us to be redeemed if we did not chose by our free will to rebel against HIM nor is it just to punish us.

This most pernicious view destroys all of Christendom by destroying GOD's perfect holiness and righteousness in love - HE cannot create evil like a well of life giving sweet water cannot put forth brackish or salt water.

[ttruscott]

Rather when the bible says "death came through a man [adam]" it means Adam was the first to sin and his descendants inherited death because the were his children.

Might it not also rather mean that all sinners are born as humans, that is, as in Adam, to prove they are sinners and no one not a sinner is ever born as human? In other words: our choosing to be sinners by our free will decisions had GOD put us into Adam as humans to live with the reprobate until we learned true holiness (parable of the good seed) and HIS putting us into Adam DID NOT CAUSE our sin at all, as heinous a blasphemy the church has ever accepted.

[Yahu]

For debate:
Did we all exist in the spirit realm or in another realm before our birth as humans?

Of course not. There is nothing in scripture to suggest such a thing considering Adam was created on like the 6th day of creation. How on earth would we exist before that?

We all come from Adam and Adam didn't exist until after the garden was created. There is no reincarnation theology within Christianity.

[ttruscott]

For debate:
Did we all exist in the spirit realm or in another realm before our birth as humans?

IF we did not then logically:

1. WE are not guilty of sin. Death is the wages for sin and babies die so they are getting the payback for their sin but Adam or GOD who put them in Adam should get it, not them...they had no choice. Without a free will choice one cannot sin unless one is already evil and lost his free will.

2. GOD is evil. Evil arises from innocence as well as from evil but once innocence chooses sin it is no longer innocent but evil. A&E prove that as in (supposed) innocence they ate and become evil. IF even in HIS innocence GOD created evil then HE too became evil.
GOD can do no evil as a well of life giving water cannot put forth brackish or saltwater. James 3:11 Can both freshwater and bitter water flow from the same spring? ... Neither can a salt spring produce fresh water.…

3. WE were created to be the Bride of Christ. Why would HE create HIS Bride as evil and disgustingly corrupt? There is no little sin as any sin sends the sinner to hell or puts Christ on the cross. So HIS Bride was created as evil, corrupted and hateful as the worst demon...for what???

It makes no sense at all when we know HE could have made us each as individuals culpable of only our own sin because HE did that already in Adam and Eve! It is absurd to think HE created HIS church evil by making them human.

The reason this was accepted by the Church was in support of our creation on earth either by traducianism or creationism of the soul but our pre-conception existences offers everything the created on earth theory does without all the blasphemy.

Nowhere in the bible is there any hint, implication nor inference that our pre-earth existence must be rejected and I have dozens of scripture verses that imply it is true so that it really should overwhelm all Christians like it did me.

[JehovahsWitness]

Rather when the bible says "death came through a man [adam]" it means Adam was the first to sin and his descendants inherited death because the were his children.

Might it not also rather mean that all sinners are born as humans, that is, as in Adam...

Yes, naturally, all Adams children are humans, so yes, "all sinners are born as humans"

... to prove they are sinners ...?

Humans are born "to prove we are sinners"? What does that mean, prove we are sinners to whom? Once we sin we that is the proof we "are sinners"

In other words: our choosing to be sinners by our free will decisions had GOD put us into Adam as humans to live with the reprobate until we learned true holiness ...

No, there is no ransom for deliberate sin, perfect beings that sin of their own free will must die. Jesus sacrifice was for Adamic sin - meaning Jesus died to save those that sin because they were born imperfect, with a predisposition or a weakness to sin through no fault of their own.

Learn more:
[youtube][/youtube]