Why didn't a god create perfection?

[Donray]

Why didn't a god create perfection?

One of the arguments for a god creator is that the universe is perfect. A matter of fact, everything a perfect god creates should be perfect.

the problem is that the universe is not perfect, Earth is not perfect, animals are not perfect, etc.

For example: what is purpose of black holes, why create galaxies that collide with each other, why is our galaxy on a collision course with another galaxy? Why create an Earth with plates that move and cause earthquakes and massive destruction? Why create virus? What is the purpose of the asteroid belt that cause destruction on Earth? Why cerate a brain what goes haywire?

There is not very much perfection why if a perfect god created it?

[bjs]

Why didn't a god create perfection?

One of the arguments for a god creator is that the universe is perfect. A matter of fact, everything a perfect god creates should be perfect.

the problem is that the universe is not perfect, Earth is not perfect, animals are not perfect, etc.

For example: what is purpose of black holes, why create galaxies that collide with each other, why is our galaxy on a collision course with another galaxy? Why create an Earth with plates that move and cause earthquakes and massive destruction? Why create virus? What is the purpose of the asteroid belt that cause destruction on Earth? Why cerate a brain what goes haywire?

There is not very much perfection why if a perfect god created it?

I, personally, have never heard a Christian argue this world is perfect. I suppose a Hindu might make that argument. Some church Fathers argued that this is the best possible world, but that is not the same thing as being a perfect world.

I am not even complete sure what you mean by the universe being perfect or not perfect. For instance, what is imperfect about a black hole? The ones Ive seen all looked like perfectly good black holes to me. A clearer definition of perfect would be helpful here.

[Willum]

Why didn't a god create perfection?

A created thing had to be brought into existence by something outside itself; therefore, a created thing by virtue of being created cannot be perfect.

Your reasoning, from every possible approach is specious.
You allege that something can not be created perfectly, many things can, and indeed are. Simplistically, I can think of many a perfect hammer.

On the other hand, you allege that God can not create something perfect. Yet you think he created the universe.
In the universe we have fundamental particles, all of these are perfect.

Heck, I can and have created perfection...

[JLB32168]

In order for something to exist, it had a NEED to be brought into existence.. interesting idea.

[p1]If A has need for B then A is incomplete. [p2]That which is incomplete is also imperfect; therefore, [c] A is imperfect.

[p1]Anything created lacks self-existence as evidenced by the fact that it must be brought into existence or caused by something outside itself. [p2]Lack indicates imperfection. [c]Created things/creatures are imperfect.

Its not just interesting; its logical.

Hmmm something perfect doesn't have any requirements outside itself to exist.

Correct.

1. How can you need ANYTHING before you existed?

A need and a lack of X are the same thing. If you didnt exist and now you do exist, then you had to be brought into existence because you were lacking self-existence. I wasnt always alive so I didnt need anything one hundred years ago; however, before I could exist/be alive I had/needed to be brought into existence by my parents. My need for my parents to cause me to exist indicates my lack of self-existence; therefore, I am imperfect. Im imperfect because of a lot of things but if I possessed everything else but lacked the ability to spring into existence on my own then I am imperfect.

3. Why does a perfect god have a need of anything outside of itself?

A perfect god doesnt need anything. Why would one conclude that a god that creates had a need?

4. Why would a perfect god need to create anything?

I dont know but you presuppose that a perfect god needed to create. Why should one conclude that one needs to create? Are you perhaps defining need differently than how I am using it? I need water. I dont need it in the form of coffee so my choice to have it in the form of coffee indicates no need for coffee.

Does everything have to need to be created in order to exist?

I didnt say that. I said that if something was created then it lacked existence. Lack is need. Need is indicative of imperfection.

6. Does "God" need to be created in order to exist?

Im not discussing whether or not God is the creation of mens mind, which is what your question seems to be asking. I know what you believe and you know what I believe. I have no interest in your opinion of my belief so if you want to discuss if my belief is true then itll be a one way discussion. Youd be better served by discussing and soliciting an opinion from a fence post.

7.[/b] How does perfection imply a "need" of any kind?

Perfection implies the exact opposite. If I am perfect then I require, lack, need nothing. If I choose to do something then its my prerogative but it doesnt necessarily indicate a need on my part.

[JLB32168]

Your reasoning, from every possible approach is specious.

Thats a charge thats easily levied but verbal fiat indicates that somebody can say something and talk is cheap.

Simplistically, I can think of many a perfect hammer.

Your perfect hammer didnt exist 14billion years ago. If its made of iron the iron didnt exist then. The iron didnt even start to exist for a few hundred million years after the explosion of the singularity because the energy had to cool down enough to become matter. Then hydrogen had to become a star. Then the star had to fuse hydrogen to helium for a few hundred million years until the star went supernova after it finally began fusing things into iron. Then it had to be smelted into steel and turned into a hammer and it cant even hammer a nail unless you pick it up and swing so its not perfect by any stretch of the imagination since it needed all those steps before it actually worked as it was designed.

[Donray]

JLB32168 wrote
Space/Time was created at the BigBang so Im not so sure there was a "before as we understand the word in this universe.

If time did not exit then if God starting counting 1,2,3,4,5 Does he known that when he says 6 that he did say the first five numbers? If so, time must exist. If time does not exist then God would nothing about the past is that correct?

Tell me where God currently resides, Inside the universe or outside where you say time does not

Also if space that is where something exists then tell me where God existed. If there no space for God then there is no God.

So, please explain how space and time did not exist.


You forgot to answer.....

[JLB32168]

JLB32168 wrote
Space/Time was created at the BigBang so Im not so sure there was a "before as we understand the word in this universe.

If time did not exit then if God starting counting 1,2,3,4,5 Does he known that when he says 6 that he did say the first five numbers? If so, time must exist. If time does not exist then God would nothing about the past is that correct?

Tell me where God currently resides, Inside the universe or outside where you say time does not

Also if space that is where something exists then tell me where God existed. If there no space for God then there is no God.

So, please explain how space and time did not exist.


You forgot to answer.....

Start a thread on it. This thread deals with how God can be perfect but create imperfect things since you feel a perfect being should create perfect things (which is what youd supposedly do if you were a perfect deity.)

[McCulloch]

I, personally, have never heard a Christian argue this world is perfect. I suppose a Hindu might make that argument. Some church Fathers argued that this is the best possible world, but that is not the same thing as being a perfect world.

I am not even complete sure what you mean by the universe being perfect or not perfect. For instance, what is imperfect about a black hole? The ones Ive seen all looked like perfectly good black holes to me. A clearer definition of perfect would be helpful here.

How do you assess the value of someone who makes things? A good shoemaker makes good shoes. A great painter makes great paintings. A poor builder makes poor buildings. Can you see the pattern?

A perfect universe creator makes a perfect universe. If the universe we find ourselves in is not perfect, then if it was created, it creator cannot be perfect.

[JLB32168]

A good shoemaker makes good shoes. A great painter makes great paintings.

Can you describe great shoes or great paintings? Can you describe poor buildings?

What makes great things great and poor things, poor?

A perfect universe creator makes a perfect universe.

What is a perfect universe?

You throw these words around with lots of ease. Can you elaborate on what you mean?

[Donray]

JLB32168 wrote
Space/Time was created at the BigBang so Im not so sure there was a "before as we understand the word in this universe.

If time did not exit then if God starting counting 1,2,3,4,5 Does he known that when he says 6 that he did say the first five numbers? If so, time must exist. If time does not exist then God would nothing about the past is that correct?

Tell me where God currently resides, Inside the universe or outside where you say time does not

Also if space that is where something exists then tell me where God existed. If there no space for God then there is no God.

So, please explain how space and time did not exist.


You forgot to answer.....

Start a thread on it. This thread deals with how God can be perfect but create imperfect things since you feel a perfect being should create perfect things (which is what youd supposedly do if you were a perfect deity.)

Why did you bring it up in the first place if it belongs in another thread???????

Why can't you take your own advice?

If I start another thread you will answer the question correct?

[Donray]

A good shoemaker makes good shoes. A great painter makes great paintings.

Can you describe great shoes or great paintings? Can you describe poor buildings?

What makes great things great and poor things, poor?

A perfect universe creator makes a perfect universe.

What is a perfect universe?

You throw these words around with lots of ease. Can you elaborate on what you mean?

Could you please tell us what mean by God is perfect? Define perfect.