Paradise on Earth

[onewithhim]

When I learned that the Bible speaks of a restored Garden of Eden and the restoration of mankind to the perfection and endless life that Adam forfeited, I was thrilled. Who doesn't want to keep living on this beautiful earth, with our loved ones, and being able to do all the things we love to do---endlessly?

If God said to you today, "When do you want to die?" would you say "now!!"? I don't think very many people would say that.

We CAN live forever here on Earth. The Bible tells us that we can.

Matthew 5:5
Psalm 37:9-11,29

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 71 by onewithhim]

I do appreciate your response, and I thoroughly enjoyed your point about the 1%!

I have heard the 1% talk. They really don't care about the average Joe. The common people are beneath them and are like cattle to them.

I could not agree more!

However:

If we just believe in ourselves, we don't have a fighting chance.

Well, fine, you can believe in God, but please believe in others and doing something too! To just believe in God and do nothing is not the answer either. Right?!?!

Right, and I believe I covered that in my post (#71).

[onewithhim]

LAKE OF FIRE:

This expression occurs only in the book of Revelation and is clearly symbolic. The Bible gives its own explanation and definition of the symbol by stating: "This means the second death, the lake of fire." (Rev.20:14; 21:8) So it symbolizes the death from which no one is resurrected.

It is further evident that this lake of fire is symbolic from the context of references to it in Revelation. Death is said to be hurled into this lake of fire. Death cannot, obviously, be hurled or burned. Moreover, the Devil who is an invisible spirit person, is thrown into the lake....and being a spirit he cannot be hurt by literal fire. (Rev.20:10; see also Exodus 3:2 where an angel is in a burning bush & it doesn't affect him.)


("Gehenna" and "the fire prepared for the Devil & his angels" are also symbolic. They mean basically the same thing as "the lake of fire.")

Your point of view is purely JW. I am not alone in believing that it is for purification, the burning up of the beast, the egotistical twin of the spiritual person. The ancients were in awe of the assayers fire--the burning up of impurities and the resulting fine metal that remains. There is a long history of this point of view in the region in that period of history.

How does literally burning up the Beast purify it? And do you believe the Beast is a literal monster that comes out of the literal sea?

Fire can certainly refer to purifying, but in more cases than not, it refers to total destruction.

No, the beast is the animal, the image (of the physical human body). You may like this: Those who worship the beast are worshiping a physical man as God. The Jews did not believe that a man could be God. You know that, of course.

No, fire does not refer to total destruction. You can't read the scriptures in an historical void. As I said, the symbol as it is used refers to the process of metallurgy which was profound to the people of that time and a cottage industry that all were familiar with unlike today. The slag is separated from the iron and cast aside.

It is total destruction of the "twin" (the elder shall be the servant of the younger), leaving the spirit which goes back to God who gave it. The reason that Satan and his angels come as light is due to the fact that all the creatures that God has created are animated by and given life by the spirit which God gave them and those who are "spiritual" can see this light. Thus Satan and his angels are to be cast into the lake of fire but there remains the purified and eternal spirit that God gave his creatures in their creation.
Remember that light is of God and God created it first and he separated the light from the darkness and this was before he created the sun and the moon.

So what is the final lot of Satan and his demons?

[catnip]

LAKE OF FIRE:

This expression occurs only in the book of Revelation and is clearly symbolic. The Bible gives its own explanation and definition of the symbol by stating: "This means the second death, the lake of fire." (Rev.20:14; 21:8) So it symbolizes the death from which no one is resurrected.

It is further evident that this lake of fire is symbolic from the context of references to it in Revelation. Death is said to be hurled into this lake of fire. Death cannot, obviously, be hurled or burned. Moreover, the Devil who is an invisible spirit person, is thrown into the lake....and being a spirit he cannot be hurt by literal fire. (Rev.20:10; see also Exodus 3:2 where an angel is in a burning bush & it doesn't affect him.)


("Gehenna" and "the fire prepared for the Devil & his angels" are also symbolic. They mean basically the same thing as "the lake of fire.")

Your point of view is purely JW. I am not alone in believing that it is for purification, the burning up of the beast, the egotistical twin of the spiritual person. The ancients were in awe of the assayers fire--the burning up of impurities and the resulting fine metal that remains. There is a long history of this point of view in the region in that period of history.

How does literally burning up the Beast purify it? And do you believe the Beast is a literal monster that comes out of the literal sea?

Fire can certainly refer to purifying, but in more cases than not, it refers to total destruction.

No, the beast is the animal, the image (of the physical human body). You may like this: Those who worship the beast are worshiping a physical man as God. The Jews did not believe that a man could be God. You know that, of course.

No, fire does not refer to total destruction. You can't read the scriptures in an historical void. As I said, the symbol as it is used refers to the process of metallurgy which was profound to the people of that time and a cottage industry that all were familiar with unlike today. The slag is separated from the iron and cast aside.

It is total destruction of the "twin" (the elder shall be the servant of the younger), leaving the spirit which goes back to God who gave it. The reason that Satan and his angels come as light is due to the fact that all the creatures that God has created are animated by and given life by the spirit which God gave them and those who are "spiritual" can see this light. Thus Satan and his angels are to be cast into the lake of fire but there remains the purified and eternal spirit that God gave his creatures in their creation.
Remember that light is of God and God created it first and he separated the light from the darkness and this was before he created the sun and the moon.

So what is the final lot of Satan and his demons?

Angels are immortal beings unlike humans. Satan is defeated. It appears that it has become commonly believed that Satan will be destroyed and that means death to most.

Who knows?

[Monta]

[Replying to post 93 by catnip]

"Angels are immortal beings unlike humans. Satan is defeated. It appears that it has become commonly believed that Satan will be destroyed and that means death to most. "

We are all immortal, angels in the making
as to our soul not our earthly body.

Satan is not an entity, satan is evils in general.
Murder of a child is satanic. People do it so
people act satanic.

[onewithhim]

LAKE OF FIRE:

This expression occurs only in the book of Revelation and is clearly symbolic. The Bible gives its own explanation and definition of the symbol by stating: "This means the second death, the lake of fire." (Rev.20:14; 21:8) So it symbolizes the death from which no one is resurrected.

It is further evident that this lake of fire is symbolic from the context of references to it in Revelation. Death is said to be hurled into this lake of fire. Death cannot, obviously, be hurled or burned. Moreover, the Devil who is an invisible spirit person, is thrown into the lake....and being a spirit he cannot be hurt by literal fire. (Rev.20:10; see also Exodus 3:2 where an angel is in a burning bush & it doesn't affect him.)


("Gehenna" and "the fire prepared for the Devil & his angels" are also symbolic. They mean basically the same thing as "the lake of fire.")

Your point of view is purely JW. I am not alone in believing that it is for purification, the burning up of the beast, the egotistical twin of the spiritual person. The ancients were in awe of the assayers fire--the burning up of impurities and the resulting fine metal that remains. There is a long history of this point of view in the region in that period of history.

How does literally burning up the Beast purify it? And do you believe the Beast is a literal monster that comes out of the literal sea?

Fire can certainly refer to purifying, but in more cases than not, it refers to total destruction.

No, the beast is the animal, the image (of the physical human body). You may like this: Those who worship the beast are worshiping a physical man as God. The Jews did not believe that a man could be God. You know that, of course.

No, fire does not refer to total destruction. You can't read the scriptures in an historical void. As I said, the symbol as it is used refers to the process of metallurgy which was profound to the people of that time and a cottage industry that all were familiar with unlike today. The slag is separated from the iron and cast aside.

It is total destruction of the "twin" (the elder shall be the servant of the younger), leaving the spirit which goes back to God who gave it. The reason that Satan and his angels come as light is due to the fact that all the creatures that God has created are animated by and given life by the spirit which God gave them and those who are "spiritual" can see this light. Thus Satan and his angels are to be cast into the lake of fire but there remains the purified and eternal spirit that God gave his creatures in their creation.
Remember that light is of God and God created it first and he separated the light from the darkness and this was before he created the sun and the moon.

So what is the final lot of Satan and his demons?

Angels are immortal beings unlike humans. Satan is defeated. It appears that it has become commonly believed that Satan will be destroyed and that means death to most.

Who knows?

Catnip, this post of yours is one of the best I've seen. Thank you for being reasonable and agreeable. I'm glad that you apparently see the reasonableness of believing that Satan will be destroyed, and that means death.

I have to disagree on the subject of angels' immortality. They are not immortal, just as humans are not. Point of fact: Satan was created, not as "Satan" but as a good and perfect angel. He exercised his free will and rebelled against his Creator. If he was created immortal, he would not be able to die. He is GOING to die, so that means he (nor the other angels, good or bad) was not created immortal.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 93 by catnip]

"Angels are immortal beings unlike humans. Satan is defeated. It appears that it has become commonly believed that Satan will be destroyed and that means death to most. "

We are all immortal, angels in the making
as to our soul not our earthly body.

Satan is not an entity, satan is evils in general.
Murder of a child is satanic. People do it so
people act satanic.

We are not immortal, and we were created not to be angels but to be physical human beings. If God wanted us to ultimately end up as angels, he would have created us to be angels from the beginning. But he made this beautiful planet for us to live on, and this is where it is his will that we stay.

"The heavens are the heavens of the LORD, but the earth He has given to the sons of men." (Psalm 115:16, NASB)

We have discussed what the "soul" is, and there has been adequate information provided to see clearly that living beings (animal and human) ARE souls. We do not have souls---in the sense of some separate consciousness inside us that separates from us at death and goes on living in the spirit realm. That is not taught anywhere in the Bible. "Soul" and "spirit" are two completely different things, and this has been proven from many scriptures.

You say that Satan is not an entity but "evil in general." Then you would say that Jesus was hallucinating when he had a lengthy conversation with Satan in the wilderness? (Luke 4:1-13) It looks to me like Satan is a real individual.

[Monta]

[Replying to post 96 by onewithhim]


"You say that Satan is not an entity but "evil in general." Then you would say that Jesus was hallucinating when he had a lengthy conversation with Satan in the wilderness? (Luke 4:1-13) It looks to me like Satan is a real individual. "

We might have to agree to disagree

That is my kind of conclusion after studying/reading..
Jesus also said to Peter - get thee behind me satan.

[catnip]

LAKE OF FIRE:

This expression occurs only in the book of Revelation and is clearly symbolic. The Bible gives its own explanation and definition of the symbol by stating: "This means the second death, the lake of fire." (Rev.20:14; 21:8) So it symbolizes the death from which no one is resurrected.

It is further evident that this lake of fire is symbolic from the context of references to it in Revelation. Death is said to be hurled into this lake of fire. Death cannot, obviously, be hurled or burned. Moreover, the Devil who is an invisible spirit person, is thrown into the lake....and being a spirit he cannot be hurt by literal fire. (Rev.20:10; see also Exodus 3:2 where an angel is in a burning bush & it doesn't affect him.)


("Gehenna" and "the fire prepared for the Devil & his angels" are also symbolic. They mean basically the same thing as "the lake of fire.")

Your point of view is purely JW. I am not alone in believing that it is for purification, the burning up of the beast, the egotistical twin of the spiritual person. The ancients were in awe of the assayers fire--the burning up of impurities and the resulting fine metal that remains. There is a long history of this point of view in the region in that period of history.

How does literally burning up the Beast purify it? And do you believe the Beast is a literal monster that comes out of the literal sea?

Fire can certainly refer to purifying, but in more cases than not, it refers to total destruction.

No, the beast is the animal, the image (of the physical human body). You may like this: Those who worship the beast are worshiping a physical man as God. The Jews did not believe that a man could be God. You know that, of course.

No, fire does not refer to total destruction. You can't read the scriptures in an historical void. As I said, the symbol as it is used refers to the process of metallurgy which was profound to the people of that time and a cottage industry that all were familiar with unlike today. The slag is separated from the iron and cast aside.

It is total destruction of the "twin" (the elder shall be the servant of the younger), leaving the spirit which goes back to God who gave it. The reason that Satan and his angels come as light is due to the fact that all the creatures that God has created are animated by and given life by the spirit which God gave them and those who are "spiritual" can see this light. Thus Satan and his angels are to be cast into the lake of fire but there remains the purified and eternal spirit that God gave his creatures in their creation.
Remember that light is of God and God created it first and he separated the light from the darkness and this was before he created the sun and the moon.

So what is the final lot of Satan and his demons?

Angels are immortal beings unlike humans. Satan is defeated. It appears that it has become commonly believed that Satan will be destroyed and that means death to most.

Who knows?

Catnip, this post of yours is one of the best I've seen. Thank you for being reasonable and agreeable. I'm glad that you apparently see the reasonableness of believing that Satan will be destroyed, and that means death.

I have to disagree on the subject of angels' immortality. They are not immortal, just as humans are not. Point of fact: Satan was created, not as "Satan" but as a good and perfect angel. He exercised his free will and rebelled against his Creator. If he was created immortal, he would not be able to die. He is GOING to die, so that means he (nor the other angels, good or bad) was not created immortal.

I did NOT say it means death. There is in each one of us an immortal part, the light of God, "Let your light shine". The spirit goes back to God who gave it. Ecclesiastes

Angels are purely messengers for God and for angels who have no mortal soul, that is all there is.

One thing we must all learn is to forgive and to hope for forgiveness for ourselves and ALL others. If we hope for the destruction of one other, we hope for our own destruction. The measure we mete out is the measure we receive.

If we really got into what I think Satan is, I think Satan is the collective of all of our false selves--that image that we have constructed out of our imaginings, the imagination of our hearts, the image of the beast--and Christ is the collective of the true self, the one Son of God, the immortal spirit of us all. He is the head and we are the Body.

[marco]

I have to disagree on the subject of angels' immortality. They are not immortal, just as humans are not. Point of fact: Satan was created, not as "Satan" but as a good and perfect angel. He exercised his free will and rebelled against his Creator. If he was created immortal, he would not be able to die. He is GOING to die, so that means he (nor the other angels, good or bad) was not created immortal.

I would be astonished if there is any evidence that angels are not immortal though there may be some deductive reasoning that reaches this conclusion from some assumption or other. It seems rather unfair that Michael the Archangel, and Gabriel who made the Annunciation to Mary will die out, making their existence rather purposeless compared to the lucky humans who will live into eternity.

It doesn't seem unreasonable that a being, endowed with immortality, can have the endowment removed by the endower. Why would this be an impossibility?

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 96 by onewithhim]


"You say that Satan is not an entity but "evil in general." Then you would say that Jesus was hallucinating when he had a lengthy conversation with Satan in the wilderness? (Luke 4:1-13) It looks to me like Satan is a real individual. "

We might have to agree to disagree

That is my kind of conclusion after studying/reading..
Jesus also said to Peter - get thee behind me satan.

To remind Peter that he was thinking the thoughts of worldliness rather than the thoughts of God. Peter was thinking like the ruler of this world, of the authority of the air (IJohn 5:19; Ephesians 2:2). Peter wasn't Satan, but he was thinking like Satan, to discourage Jesus from completing his task. Even though Peter didn't realize it.

Yes, we will have to agree to disagree. BTW, how do you explain Luke 4:1-13?