I'm looking for Bible verses that support "love thy enemies" and "Kill whoever God doesn't like today."
In the Bible, I think it was in Matthew 5:44 where it says that we should love our enemies, and in the OLD testament, there are very many passages where people kill people on the command of God.
I think there are about a dozen of those direct commandments...
So, the questions for debate is:
"Are Christians being instructed to not hate their enemies, but to hate to the point of killing whoever God considers to be an enemy?"
P.S.
I owe the idea of Christians having to hate God's enemies from Divine Insight in Post 107: Question for Atheists/Naturalist
Divine Insight wrote:
Also, if you believe that the LORD only gave you towns in Israel and you're not living in one of those towns then why is that? Shouldn't you think about moving to the towns you believe your LORD gave you?
I was unaware that the LORD had ever given me in towns anywhere.
Divine Insight wrote:
I simply disagree with your objections. The first sentences clearly states:
"If a man or woman living among you in one of the towns the LORD gives you"
And besides, your argument fails anyway unless you are supporting that this commandment should still be followed in any specific town or place. Are you trying to argue that this commandment should only be carried out in Israel but nowhere else?
The opening question of this debate was: "Are Christians being instructed to not hate their enemies, but to hate to the point of killing whoever God considers to be an enemy?"
The answer is Christians are instructed not to hate their enemies and they are not instructed to kill.
You said in this thread, Those who follow Christ should be killing "God's enemies" as per God's Laws in the OT"
That is false.
I am not going to bother with your straw man use of Matthew. Instead, if you are going say that the opening verses of Deuteronomy 17 are instructions for those who follow Christ to kill Gods enemies, then you must tell what towns it is that God has given to these modern followers of Christ. If you claim that these are towns in Israel then you need to provide evidence that these towns were given to modern Christians, as opposed to those the Bible actually says they were given to.
If you cannot meet the requirements for this verse, then I would ask that you either provide the verses in the OT which say that Gods law is for Christians to kill Gods enemies or that you retract your claim.
Understand that you might believe. Believe that you might understand. –Augustine of Hippo
This should go without saying, but regardless of whether some or all the old testament commands apply to christians today, the fact is, according to the bible, at some point in the past, the SAME god they submit to and worship was ok with the abhorrent garbage in the old testament.
If anyone besides the Israelites was treating people the way the Israelites did, Christians would be having a fit, calling it inhumane, evil, etc (they already do this with islam; at least the muslims behead people, which is more merciful and less painful than stoning people to death.......). They give the Isrealites and their god a free pass on this garbage because to take issue with it would mean at least the collapse of their precious doctrine of inerrancy, and perhaps even the total collapse of their security blanket (or, for some, their control mechanism, means of acquiring wealth, influence, perks, etc).
Christians, if your god was actually ok with this stuff and commanded it, I reject your god and refuse to submit. Send me to hell, i'll go down swinging. It would be my pleasure to spit in your god's face and give him the bird. In fact, i'd fight him if I could, even if it meant certain death. I refuse to submit to this evil bullcrap.
If it turns out there are one or more gods, then so be it.
If it turns out there are no gods, then thank reality that no one is going to suffer forever.
[center]Thank God that God isn't ordering Christians to kill his enemies these days Part One[/center]
bjs wrote:
The opening question of this debate was: "Are Christians being instructed to not hate their enemies, but to hate to the point of killing whoever God considers to be an enemy?"
The answer is Christians are instructed not to hate their enemies and they are not instructed to kill.
You said in this thread, Those who follow Christ should be killing "God's enemies" as per God's Laws in the OT"
That is false.
____________
Question:
You say that: Christians are instructed not to hate their enemies and they are not instructed to kill. The question I have is:
Would you kill God's enemies if so instructed by God?
I asked the same question to onewithhim and still have no answer.
bjs wrote:
I am not going to bother with your straw man use of Matthew. Instead, if you are going say that the opening verses of Deuteronomy 17 are instructions for those who follow Christ to kill Gods enemies, then you must tell what towns it is that God has given to these modern followers of Christ. If you claim that these are towns in Israel then you need to provide evidence that these towns were given to modern Christians, as opposed to those the Bible actually says they were given to.
Seems easy enough.
On that day the Lord made a covenant with Abram, saying, "To your offspring I give this land, from the river of Egypt to the great river, the river Euphrates, the land of the Kenites, the Kenizzites, the Kadmonites, the Hittites, the Perizzites, the Rephaim, the Amorites, the Canaanites, the Girgashites and the Jebusites."
When God stated for the Israelites to wipe out entire populations, what was the cause? Weren't those people sacrificing their children to fire, and doing other things that were detestable? God never said to kill your enemies just because they are enemies, only when those enemies threatened the security and safety of His children.
When God stated for the Israelites to wipe out entire populations, what was the cause? Weren't those people sacrificing their children to fire, and doing other things that were detestable? God never said to kill your enemies just because they are enemies, only when those enemies threatened the security and safety of His children.
Does it really matter the cause?
Why should God ask anyone to kill anyone else? Is He not capable of dealing with the situation Himself?
Would you kill someone if God asked it? Would you even believe it was God asking?
I would seriously doubt that it was God talking to me if I were being asked to kill someone else for any reason. If God created this world, surely He can do the killing Himself or otherwise come up with a better solution.
I understand that sometimes we are required to kill in self defense of ourselves or others, but that is not a direct command from God. It is simply dealing with the situation at hand. If God is involved in the conversation, I say let Him endure the sheer horror of taking another's life and leave us out of it.
When God stated for the Israelites to wipe out entire populations, what was the cause? Weren't those people sacrificing their children to fire, and doing other things that were detestable? God never said to kill your enemies just because they are enemies, only when those enemies threatened the security and safety of His children.
They were enemies of God?
But if they weren't God believers, how were those kids "His children", Peds?
When God stated for the Israelites to wipe out entire populations, what was the cause? Weren't those people sacrificing their children to fire, and doing other things that were detestable? God never said to kill your enemies just because they are enemies, only when those enemies threatened the security and safety of His children.
BW wrote:Does it really matter the cause?
If I just kill a man for the heck of it because we don't get along, or I kill a man because he is going to harm my children, would I be justified in either case? If your question is,
" Are Christians being instructed to not hate their enemies, but to hate to the point of killing whoever God considers to be an enemy," as stated in the OP, then I believe motive is everything.
BW wrote:Would you kill someone if God asked it? Would you even believe it was God asking?
A more realistic question would be, do you think God is okay with those who defend themselves? Would God ask me to do such a thing? Yes!
BW wrote:I would seriously doubt that it was God talking to me if I were being asked to kill someone else for any reason. If God created this world, surely He can do the killing Himself or otherwise come up with a better solution.
He did, but apparently some didn't get the memo. Love your neighbor as yourself. Now, if everyone did that, we would have no need for killing anywhere!
BW wrote:I understand that sometimes we are required to kill in self defense of ourselves or others, but that is not a direct command from God.
It isn't? How can you be so sure that God wasn't protecting His people in the OT, by sending His people to seize the land of those who would hurt them? What happened when they acted on their own apart from God, was He pleased?
I believe God was protecting His people, and when His people went to war on their own, without His consent...it didn't fare well for his people.
Always a pleasure BW...I am not sure how you warm benches, but you do warm my heart!
[center]
Whose question are you answering? Part One.[/center]
BW wrote:Would you kill someone if God asked it? Would you even believe it was God asking?
Peds nurse wrote:
A more realistic question would be, do you think God is okay with those who defend themselves? Would God ask me to do such a thing? Yes!
Although answering your own question might seem more "realistic" to you, you didn't answer BW's question.
____________
Questions:
1. Why do you consider your question "more realistic" than your interlocutors'?
2. Do you think that answering one of your own questions to be an answer to BW's question?
3. Were you intending, perhaps to answer his question? If so, could you do so?
I do not believe that God would ask me to kill someone. I do believe that God told Moses to form an army and to go to war with various people...wiping out entire populations. I believe He did this to protect His people.
