Zeus or Jehovah, who is better?

[Willum]

Zeus leads his pantheon of angels and vicars on Earth, and under Zeus' divine wisdom, man received the following gifts.

Modern languages, Astronomy, Philosophy; many philosophies, Education, Mathematics, Architecture, concrete, refined sciences, surgery and medicine, Roads, the Calendar, history, news, public welfare: the supply of vegetables in winter (preventing scurvy and health problems), and supply of meats and grain in winter, bound books, roads, modern law, many engineerings, the modern alphabet, glass, light houses, mills, glazed pottery, modern soap and this is not a complete list, and possibly the most important invention, the one that makes a city modern and healthy, even today, the clean water and sewage system. How one gets to his heaven is righteousness and heroism.
Famine,mortality and infant deaths approached modern times.

Yahweh, leads his pantheon of angels and vicars on Earth, and performed the following:

He came after, whom essentially stripped away every one of Zeus' benefits, because they were from Zeus, and evil, replacing it with his truth and love, which included superiority of one race over others, a demeaning system of slavery, misogyny, more genocides than any other God, that cleanliness polluted your soul, that this God alone should heal, not men, that math and engineering were sorcery and led you to Hell, that the only truth was from one book, that famine and death were punishment for man's evil, that other schools of thought were evil. Insisted people only be educated in prescribed ways, like that the Sun moved around the Earth, and that nitrogen-fixing crops were against his will, but did say that a non-burdening system of sin removal would get you to heaven. This God also is in close communications with his followers, though not a single one can prove this.

Follow-up question, which one seems more real, one that seems to make judgments from ignorance, harming humanity, or one that seems genuinely interested in weal? Which God would you choose. Feel free to enter in other beneficial characteristics of either god, if you think I've missed any, and propose counter arguments.

[Zzyzx]

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As for YHVH vs Satan, how can you say? The jury, as they say, is still out and the battle rages on.

The Bible God's wishes can supposedly be defeated by iron chariots.

Judges 1:19 And the Lord was with Judah; and he drave out the inhabitants of the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron.

Modern tanks and APCs should easily be victorious (and presumably available to 'Satan').

[Elijah John]

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As for YHVH vs Satan, how can you say? The jury, as they say, is still out and the battle rages on.

The Bible God's wishes can supposedly be defeated by iron chariots.

Judges 1:19 And the Lord was with Judah; and he drave out the inhabitants of the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron.

Modern tanks and APCs should easily be victorious (and presumably available to 'Satan').

Ah, the enemies of God may have won that particular battle, but that does not mean they will ultimately win the war.

Perhaps God's side will have even better weapons in the future.

And if the Book of Revelation is to be believed, (literally or not) the good guys win in the end.

[Zzyzx]

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Hey EJ -- on the lighter side

Ah, the enemies of God may have won that particular battle, but that does not mean they will ultimately win the war.

The 'enemies of God' appear to be doing quite well worldwide. In fact, it is a bit difficult to identify God's troops anywhere. The Jews lost to Romans then Romans became Christians and subsequently lost their empire. Europe became Christian and entered the Dark Ages of Theocracy. After developing superior weapons, Europeans conquered many of the world's cultures that were less technologically / militarily advanced. Then infighting disseminated Europe. As the concept of individual freedom gradually took hold, religion lost its position of dominance and has been declining.

Perhaps God's side will have even better weapons in the future.

Too late, EJ, 'Satan' may have a crazy guy aligned to have a finger on the nuke button " unless saner minds prevail and oust him.

And if the Book of Revelation is to be believed, (literally or not) the good guys win in the end.

Hey, if the good guys win we will be nice to you anyway.

[Willum]

[Replying to Zzyzx]

I wonder if you realized, or left it to us to figure out, just how profound your post is:

You essentially implied or claimed that the world has been set back by Yahweh and been getting better by emulating Satan.

Satan rebelled in the beginning, right?
Man in your narrative has been slowly building on the concept of individual freedom, the most extreme expression of that being rebellion.

An iconic analogy?

[Tired of the Nonsense]

Zeus leads his pantheon of angels and vicars on Earth, and under Zeus' divine wisdom, man received the following gifts.

Modern languages, Astronomy, Philosophy; many philosophies, Education, Mathematics, Architecture, concrete, refined sciences, surgery and medicine, Roads, the Calendar, history, news, public welfare: the supply of vegetables in winter (preventing scurvy and health problems), and supply of meats and grain in winter, bound books, roads, modern law, many engineerings, the modern alphabet, glass, light houses, mills, glazed pottery, modern soap and this is not a complete list, and possibly the most important invention, the one that makes a city modern and healthy, even today, the clean water and sewage system. How one gets to his heaven is righteousness and heroism.
Famine,mortality and infant deaths approached modern times.

Yahweh, leads his pantheon of angels and vicars on Earth, and performed the following:

He came after, whom essentially stripped away every one of Zeus' benefits, because they were from Zeus, and evil, replacing it with his truth and love, which included superiority of one race over others, a demeaning system of slavery, misogyny, more genocides than any other God, that cleanliness polluted your soul, that this God alone should heal, not men, that math and engineering were sorcery and led you to Hell, that the only truth was from one book, that famine and death were punishment for man's evil, that other schools of thought were evil. Insisted people only be educated in prescribed ways, like that the Sun moved around the Earth, and that nitrogen-fixing crops were against his will, but did say that a non-burdening system of sin removal would get you to heaven. This God also is in close communications with his followers, though not a single one can prove this.

Follow-up question, which one seems more real, one that seems to make judgments from ignorance, harming humanity, or one that seems genuinely interested in weal? Which God would you choose. Feel free to enter in other beneficial characteristics of either god, if you think I've missed any, and propose counter arguments.

I can't say that either Jehovah or Zeus seem to be either more or less real than the other. As for declaring one better than the other, the concept of "better" is somewhat obtuse. Most people, I believe, tend to evaluate the concept of "better" or "worse" based on the impact or the potential impact a thing has on them and their lives. To the best of my knowledge it was never claimed that Zeus produced a near extinction event similar to the one credited to Jehovah in Genesis 7-8. This claim alone would seem to make Zeus a good deal "better," and Jehovah far "worse."

[JehovahsWitness]

Judges 1:19 And the Lord was with Judah; and he drave out the inhabitants of the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron.

QUESTION: Does the bible indicate that God was unable to defeat the Cannanites because they had iron chariots?

No, the bible reports that God had already taken direct action against Phaoroh of Egypt equipted with 600 war chariots defeating them at the Red Sea.

He later destroyed the fleet of Jabin the king of Canaan which consisted of 900 chariots equipped with iron scythes at the torrent valley of Kishon. (Jg 4:2, 3, 13, 15, 16; 5:28)

And the bible also contains the account of Asa, the king of Judah who relying on his God, defeated Zerah the Ethiopian who had an army of 1,000,000 men and 300 chariots, at the battle of Mareshah.

So Jehovah is in no way depicted as being incapable of defeating iron chariots.

New International Version
The LORD was with the men of Judah. They took possession of the hill country, but THEY were unable to drive the people from the plains, because they had chariots fitted with iron.

A careful reading of the text shows that it was the Israelites that initially failed in the conquest of certain regions not God.


# If that is so, why does Judges 1:19 say that the Israelites were unable to defeat their enemies?

Victory over their enemies was not a forgone conclusion; the bible indicates it would be dependent on several factors:

Notice the warning found at DEUTERONOMY 20:1 which reads:
If you go to war against your enemies and you see their horses and chariots and troops that outnumber yours, do not be afraid of them, for Jehovah your God who brought you up out of the land of Egypt is with you.

Speaking of their brother tribe, JOSHUAH 17:16 reports:
Then the descendants of Joseph said: The mountainous region is not enough for us, and all the Canaanites who are dwelling in the land of the valley have war chariots with iron scythes

CONCLUSION: Evidently, the failure of the Judeans on that occassion was due to their own fear and self reliance rather than an inability of their God to defeat their enemies.

[Willum]

[Replying to post 76 by JehovahsWitness]

When it's a failure, it man's fault.
When success it's God's glory.

Men suck and God is great. OK, that's what you believe.

However, the Bible supports that God, like the faeries of old, had a vulnerability to iron, and when men master iron and defeat other iron wielders, it's God's victory.

Position inconsistent.

Anyway, it seems pretty clear that after 1500 years of bloody persecution, that when the persecution ends and people are no longer murdered for their beliefs, that paganism is just as strong as Christianity.

[rikuoamero]

[Replying to post 76 by JehovahsWitness]

A million strong army? Don't you think that's just a tad bit overblown? Even the Roman Empire, at the absolute height of its power had a total of about 450,000 soldiers
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperial_Roman_army
Indeed the first group to field a million men that I know of were the Mongols in the 1300s.

[Willum]

Hey, JW:

Looking at the poll, Jehovah didn't win on a site dedicated to him.

How strong is Jehovah now?
4 people thought Zeus was a more likely god.
3 other.
3 for Jehovah.

You laugh at Jove's following, but Zeus won here.

Perhaps folks should go door-to-door reminding them how important Jove was in their lives and history.

[Willum]

[Replying to JehovahsWitness]

Well, be fair, presumably your religious ancestors, Catholics mostly, brutally murdered any Zeus worshipers in the Dark Ages and continued this brutal habit on and off until modern times.

And yet, such is the power of this Zeus that: You started using HIS name (as Deus) instead of Yaweh's or Elohims.
WE use Jovian Laws in our courts, use Jovian Philosophies in our thought, Jovian Logic in our reasoning and even the scientific method is resurrected from those beneficent times before the Dark Ages.

So with Catholics murdering everyone who worshiped benevolent Zeus, I think it is an amazing testament to his power that his art and beneficence survived the Dark Ages, despite the destructive and murderous efforts of Yahweh.