meaning of clouds

[dio9]

Dan. 7:13 "As I watched in the night visions, I saw one like a human being coming with the clouds of heaven. And he came to the Ancient One and was presented before him."

Do you think this inspired the idea meeting the lord in the air on the last days?
Clouds are really used as a metaphor .
Jeremiah used clouds to describe the coming of the king of Assyria, 4:13 "Look! He comes up like clouds, his chariots like the whirlwind; his horses are swifter than eagles" woe to us, for we are ruined!"

[onewithhim]

Dan. 7:13 "As I watched in the night visions, I saw one like a human being coming with the clouds of heaven. And he came to the Ancient One and was presented before him."

Do you think this inspired the idea meeting the lord in the air on the last days?
Clouds are really used as a metaphor .
Jeremiah used clouds to describe the coming of the king of Assyria, 4:13 "Look! He comes up like clouds, his chariots like the whirlwind; his horses are swifter than eagles" woe to us, for we are ruined!"

You might have an idea there.

I have thought of the idea of meeting Jesus in the air, or, the clouds, as literal, and I think it is to a great extent. But you may be right. Perhaps Jesus and his 144,000 co-rulers will actually be all the way in heaven---way above the clouds of the earth---and do their cleansing work from there. I always thought of them coming as far as the clouds of Earth, but why would they have to do that, you know? Yes, I think you have a great idea that the clouds are a metaphor, similar to the coming of the king of Assyria.

[dio9]

If clouds are a metaphor how should we moderns interpret the meaning of clouds. There are at least 74 different references to clouds in the old testament. Many as a cloaking of God in mystery. As in the clouds of mt Sinai where Moses met God in the clouds.

Or the power and glory of God where the clouds are the chariot of God.

Ps. 104:3
"you set the beams of your chambers on the waters, you make the clouds your chariot, you ride on the wings of the wind,"

In Daniel the clouds would represent all the above , God's mystery power wonder and glory.

[onewithhim]

If clouds are a metaphor how should we moderns interpret the meaning of clouds. There are at least 74 different references to clouds in the old testament. Many as a cloaking of God in mystery. As in the clouds of mt Sinai where Moses met God in the clouds.

Yes, it means, many times, a situation where God or Jesus cannot be seen. Notice how it is worded at Acts 1:9: "After he had said these things, he was lifted up while they were looking on, and a cloud received him out of their sight." They couldn't see him any more, having been obscured by the cloud. Two angels who were nearby said that "Jesus, who has been taken up from you into heaven, will come in just the same way as you have watched him go into heaven." (verse 11) He will be obscured by the "cloud" when he comes again. No one will see him with their literal eye, but with the "eye" of understanding.


.

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 1 by dio9]



Clouds are often used in the bible as a metaphor, but not always a metaphor for the same thing. In other words, in one scripture it might be a metaphor for one thing and in another scritpture it might be a metaphor for a completely different thing. One of the big mistakes people make with their bible study is believe that once they have established a meaning for a metaphor in one passage that that explanation can be applied to every scripture without exception.

And then again a cloud in a particular scripture might not be a metaphor at all, but refer to a literal cloud (in the sky that brings rain), the passage with Elijah and his attendant comes to mind.

JW

[bluethread]

If clouds are a metaphor how should we moderns interpret the meaning of clouds.

As one would with a Joni Mitchell song, using historical, grammatical and cultural context.

[dio9]

[Replying to post 6 by bluethread]

are you suggesting nobody knows? As Joanie sings, I really don't know clouds at all.

And we today really don't know what Paul or Daniel thought about the son of man coming on the clouds. It sounds like poetic language to me. Like the Psalmists sang God rides the clouds like a chariot . How else would Jesus get around? It's so poetic. Lets just hope the world leaders don't destroy our world before the sons of God appear.

[tam]

It would seem to me that:

Their vision was clouded -> metaphor

A cloud hid Him from their sight -> not a metaphor


The second description is not a metaphor because the cloud is a real thing being described and doing something. In Acts, the disciples saw the cloud that hid Christ from their sight. "Cloud" is not used as a metaphor in the way that this is written in Acts.


**

Without looking up the Jeremiah verse, what you have written sounds more like a simile to me (though I sometimes mix up simile and metaphor). Simile:

a figure of speech involving the comparison of one thing with another thing of a different kind, used to make a description more emphatic or vivid (e.g., as brave as a lion, crazy like a fox ).

But Daniel states that he saw one like a son of man coming WITH the clouds of heaven (not LIKE the clouds of heaven).


I do not know if Daniel's description of what he saw helped Paul understand that we would meet the Lord in the air, or if Paul simply learned from the Spirit. In the vision that Daniel received, Christ was entering before the Ancient One (God).




Peace to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

[Monta]

If clouds are a metaphor how should we moderns interpret the meaning of clouds. There are at least 74 different references to clouds in the old testament. Many as a cloaking of God in mystery. As in the clouds of mt Sinai where Moses met God in the clouds.

Yes, it means, many times, a situation where God or Jesus cannot be seen. Notice how it is worded at Acts 1:9: "After he had said these things, he was lifted up while they were looking on, and a cloud received him out of their sight." They couldn't see him any more, having been obscured by the cloud. Two angels who were nearby said that "Jesus, who has been taken up from you into heaven, will come in just the same way as you have watched him go into heaven." (verse 11) He will be obscured by the "cloud" when he comes again. No one will see him with their literal eye, but with the "eye" of understanding.
.

Simply brilliant. I have not heard anyone else say that.
We can not see Him with our eyes as He is in Himself; we'd either go blind or disintigrate to dust.

[dio9]

[Replying to post 9 by Monta]

This presents a problem , there are many who have and still do expect to see him come riding the clouds like his father's chariot.
What happens when they can't actually see him as he is hidden like God wrapped in cloud.
If Jesus comes in a cloud without understanding
Will we believe in him?
As he said many times, if you have eyes to see.
Jesus was wrapped in so much obscuring cloud , a poor man coming from Galilee, to Jerusalem , he didn't look like Christ to those without the eyes to see. Why even his disciples didn't know who he was. That was almost perfect obscurity.
I wonder if we Christians will be able to see him if he comes again in the same way.