What is God responsible for?

[Willum]

Many things were done in God's name:
But what is he responsible for?

When the Catholic Nazi Germany attempts a genocide, a man is blamed.
When Hebrews commit genocide on the Canaan, it is his will.

We have plagues, on Catholic countries, for example. The Dark Ages were committed in Yahweh's name. Were they?

Why would Yahweh plunge the civilization of Rome, with health, farming and sanitation, back into the primitive squalor of ancient Jerusalem, if so?

If not, why did he not stop such a terror? It seems to be in His purview.

How does one determine if an act is done in God's will, or men's will?
Does the Bible tell us?

Understanding that free will is a constraint - we can also understand that mob's and large numbers of people lose free will, does this fall into God's purview, then?

In short, how does one know what God is responsible for;
Any group decision?
A decision influenced by prayer?

The position is that presented by Romans 13:

Obey the rulers who have authority over you. Only God can give authority to anyone, and he puts these rulers in their places of power. 2 People who oppose the authorities are opposing what God has done, and they will be punished. 3 Rulers are a threat to evil people, not to good people. There is no need to be afraid of the authorities. Just do right, and they will praise you for it. 4 After all, they are God’s servants, and it is their duty to help you.

The position of the OP is: those atrocities committed by governments, God's will, and he is responsible for them.

[Willum]

[Replying to post 55 by onewithhim]

People have been claiming we are in the last days since 43 AD.
People have been having their actions ascribed that way since 43 AD.
People will behave in the end days, just as they do the everydays.
In the business world it's called management by crisis: Induce a crisis and claim it's some kind of fulfillment.

Why do you have a difficulty with believing in a government that you can't see, when you don't have any difficulty with believing that God exists---and we can't see Him? Right? He causes things to happen here on Earth without anyone on Earth seeing Him, as He has done from the beginning of creation.

Because, quite frankly, this OP is not about invisible kingdoms, it is about God's influence on Earth.

[onewithhim]

I just wonder how many ways this can be interpreted: the sky is blue.

By saying the sky is NOT blue. We start with white light.
By discussing particles of oxygen and nitrogen that affect the break up of light.
By discussing the prevalence of blue light which is scattered more than red light.
By regarding a sunset and seeing that red light prevails, showing that the sky is not always blue.
By pointing to the night sky.
By discussing the existence or non existence of sky.

Your black and white truth is a deception. It is perfectly possible to take verses and find a variety of meaning in them. If you can be deceived so easily about the blue sky then you can equally be deceived about other matters.

What am I saying here?:

A child would say that the sky is blue.

Jesus said, "Truly I say to you, unless you are converted and become like children, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven." (Matt.18:3, NASB)

I think you misunderstand Scripture here. Christ is not lauding ignorance but commending innocence, such as displayed by children.

It is one thing to quote Scripture; quite another to understand it.

I don't think I am misunderstanding anything. A child will take a simple truth and accept it, rather than find ways to undermine it, as you have done. It is not ignorance, it is a simple desire to honor basic truths and not be so eager to pull them apart, which someone will do who does not appreciate the spiritual gems of God's Word.

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[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 55 by onewithhim]

People have been claiming we are in the last days since 43 AD.
People have been having their actions ascribed that way since 43 AD.
People will behave in the end days, just as they do the everydays.
In the business world it's called management by crisis: Induce a crisis and claim it's some kind of fulfillment.

Why do you have a difficulty with believing in a government that you can't see, when you don't have any difficulty with believing that God exists---and we can't see Him? Right? He causes things to happen here on Earth without anyone on Earth seeing Him, as He has done from the beginning of creation.

Because, quite frankly, this OP is not about invisible kingdoms, it is about God's influence on Earth.

Invisible Kingdoms have everything to do with what God does with the Earth. His influence is shortly going to be HUGE, because he is going to have his own government set up over the earth to guide the people here.

I agree that people have been ascribing certain happenings to "last days" since 43 A.D. Back then they WERE living in the last days of the Jewish system of things with the temple and sacrifices. One fulfillment of Jesus' prophecy in Matthew 24 was the sack of Jerusalem, 66-70 A.D. The greater fulfillment will be soon revealed, and we know this because the "great tribulation such as as not been seen before now nor will occur again" has not happened as of yet, nor has the prophecy of the final "deliverance" of Jehovah's true worshipers (Luke 21:28; 2Thess. 1:6-9)

Yes, people will behave in the end just as they do every day, just as Jesus said. They will not be cognizant of what is taking place around them, being more involved with the everyday cares of life. (Matt.24:37-39) People who have never recognized their own spiritual need (Matt.5:3: "Happy are those conscious of their spiritual need, since the kingdom of the heavens belongs to them.").


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[marco]

I don't think I am misunderstanding anything.

I know perfectly well you don't, onewithhim, which rather defines the problem.

A child will take a simple truth and accept it, rather than find ways to undermine it, as you have done. It is not ignorance, it is a simple desire to honor basic truths and not be so eager to pull them apart, which someone will do who does not appreciate the spiritual gems of God's Word.

A child will take a simple truth and ask a thousand questions which adults find hard to answer. I am flattered if Christ was actually referring to me in his statement but I don't think he was.

I am as capable of appreciating the "spiritual gems of God's word" as Jack next door. I don't have any preconceived notions that might do battle with Christ's meaning. I appreciate his wisdom without having to fit it into the restrictions of an adopted religion.

[Willum]

[Replying to onewithhim]

Invisible Kingdoms have everything to do with what God does with the Earth. His influence is shortly going to be HUGE, because he is going to have his own government set up over the earth to guide the people here.

So, if I accept this at face value, you will show me, succinctly, how invisible kingdoms impact things here on Earth.
So, point it out. Show me. I see no invisible kingdoms in the near or distant future.
Otherwise, show me his impact on Earth now, or anytime after 43 AD. Show me what events he started or stopped. It looks pretty plain to me, he started the Dark Ages. Where Europe went from worshiping Zeus and party, to Yahwerh and Jesus, and the horror that was only arrested by slowly, progressively, ignoring Yahweh's will and adopting the Renaissance. But other than that all I see are opinions, hardly things to judge the actions of the almighty by, I think you'll agree.

Back then they WERE living in the last days of the Jewish system of things with the temple and sacrifices.

Hum.
That covers from 43-70 AD.
What were the last days from 71 AD to 100AD?
From 100 AD to 130 AD, and so on until the modern day?

They were all the last days, so they were absolutely not any last days.

[onewithhim]

I don't think I am misunderstanding anything.

I know perfectly well you don't, onewithhim, which rather defines the problem.

A child will take a simple truth and accept it, rather than find ways to undermine it, as you have done. It is not ignorance, it is a simple desire to honor basic truths and not be so eager to pull them apart, which someone will do who does not appreciate the spiritual gems of God's Word.

A child will take a simple truth and ask a thousand questions which adults find hard to answer. I am flattered if Christ was actually referring to me in his statement but I don't think he was.

I am as capable of appreciating the "spiritual gems of God's word" as Jack next door. I don't have any preconceived notions that might do battle with Christ's meaning. I appreciate his wisdom without having to fit it into the restrictions of an adopted religion.

But you are fitting it into the restrictions of your own religion, if you will. Jesus would have said to a child, "The sky is blue." That would have been sufficient for any child at the moment.

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[onewithhim]

[Replying to onewithhim]

Invisible Kingdoms have everything to do with what God does with the Earth. His influence is shortly going to be HUGE, because he is going to have his own government set up over the earth to guide the people here.

So, if I accept this at face value, you will show me, succinctly, how invisible kingdoms impact things here on Earth.
So, point it out. Show me. I see no invisible kingdoms in the near or distant future.
Otherwise, show me his impact on Earth now, or anytime after 43 AD. Show me what events he started or stopped. It looks pretty plain to me, he started the Dark Ages. Where Europe went from worshiping Zeus and party, to Yahwerh and Jesus, and the horror that was only arrested by slowly, progressively, ignoring Yahweh's will and adopting the Renaissance. But other than that all I see are opinions, hardly things to judge the actions of the almighty by, I think you'll agree.

Back then they WERE living in the last days of the Jewish system of things with the temple and sacrifices.

Hum.
That covers from 43-70 AD.
What were the last days from 71 AD to 100AD?
From 100 AD to 130 AD, and so on until the modern day?

They were all the last days, so they were absolutely not any last days.

Jehovah, the Most High God, created men to live on the earth. He was the only true God, the One that governed the entire universe, and He still governs it. At the time, when he created Adam, he was Adam's governor---he governed Adam (told Adam what to do and why)---and you can call him a King as well. From Him all instruction came, on how Adam could benefit himself by following His instructions. So Jehovah's Kingdom was in tact over the earth. He ruled from heaven. Adam couldn't see Him, but he heard Him. There is your example of an invisible kingdom ruling over the earth.

Adam decided that he didn't want to follow Jehovah's instructions, so he proceeded to throw sand in his gas-tank, if you will, and come out from under Jehovah's instructions. Adam wanted to be like God and decide for himself what was good or bad. Because Adam wanted this, and passed his errors on to his children, we have gotten FAR away from the truth about God and His Kingdom and His right to rule. We now have examples of people's distaste for Jehovah and His Kingdom, as evidenced by comments like yours.

All I can finally say to you is that we have been living in the final "last days" since 1914, when, according to Bible chronology, the appointed times of the nations came to an end. (Appointed BY Jehovah.) Now we look at Jesus' prophecy with eyes of understanding concerning the last days of the entire system of things. Coming shortly is the greatest tribulation that the world has ever seen.
(Matt.24: 3-42)


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[Willum]

[Replying to post 67 by onewithhim]

I have no idea how any of that addresses the OP, or any tangent thereof.

[marco]

But you are fitting it into the restrictions of your own religion, if you will. Jesus would have said to a child, "The sky is blue." That would have been sufficient for any child at the moment.

We are wandering from the issue. Jesus had nothing to do with it; you made the comment about the sky being blue and you, not Jesus, challenged us to find anything in it that could be challenged. I did.

Perhaps you wish to say that God was responsible for the error in understanding. He's responsible for most other things, after all.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 67 by onewithhim]

I have no idea how any of that addresses the OP, or any tangent thereof.

Did you read it???

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