Biggest Problem With Accepting Christianity

[Danmark]

I suggest that one of the major reasons people do not accept Christianity is that Christians do not accept the teachings of Christ.

While many are eager to call homosexuality a sin because they believe Jesus preached that (even tho' it is unclear that he did);
And even tho' many are adamant that husbands should rule over their wives because Paul said so;

Jesus preached very clearly that if you want to be perfect you should sell all you have, give it to the poor, and follow Him. Here is one of the clearest and most unequivocal teachings of Jesus, yet virtually NO Christian even attempts to follow this command.

And behold, a man came up to him, saying, “Teacher, what good deed must I do to have eternal life?�
. . . . “If you would be perfect, go, sell what you possess and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow me.�
Matthew 19:16-21

Most if not all give the same response Jesus heard 2000 years ago:

When the young man heard this he went away sorrowful, for he had great possessions.

How can people call themselves 'Christian' when they fail to follow this central teaching of Jesus?

[TheBeardedDude]

I suggest that one of the major reasons people do not accept Christianity is that Christians do not accept the teachings of Christ.

While many are eager to call homosexuality a sin because they believe Jesus preached that (even tho' it is unclear that he did);
And even tho' many are adamant that husbands should rule over their wives because Paul said so;

Jesus preached very clearly that if you want to be perfect you should sell all you have, give it to the poor, and follow Him. Here is one of the clearest and most unequivocal teachings of Jesus, yet virtually NO Christian even attempts to follow this command.

And behold, a man came up to him, saying, “Teacher, what good deed must I do to have eternal life?�
. . . . “If you would be perfect, go, sell what you possess and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow me.�
Matthew 19:16-21

Most if not all give the same response Jesus heard 2000 years ago:

When the young man heard this he went away sorrowful, for he had great possessions.

How can people call themselves 'Christian' when they fail to follow this central teaching of Jesus?

"I suggest that one of the major reasons people do not accept Christianity is that Christians do not accept the teachings of Christ."

I haven't met any fellow atheists yet who hold this as a major reason for not accepting Christianity. It is also a slippery slope of sorts and a bit of a no true scotsman. Who is to say who does and doesn't follow the central teachings of Jesus? After all, each individual can subjectively choose to define what is "central" to Jesus' teachings.

[1213]

....And behold, a man came up to him, saying, “Teacher, what good deed must I do to have eternal life?�
. . . . “If you would be perfect, go, sell what you possess and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow me.�
Matthew 19:16-21

Most if not all give the same response Jesus heard 2000 years ago:

When the young man heard this he went away sorrowful, for he had great possessions.

How can people call themselves 'Christian' when they fail to follow this central teaching of Jesus?

But do you know where Jesus is, so that one could go and follow him?

[Divine Insight]

....And behold, a man came up to him, saying, “Teacher, what good deed must I do to have eternal life?�
. . . . “If you would be perfect, go, sell what you possess and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow me.�
Matthew 19:16-21

Most if not all give the same response Jesus heard 2000 years ago:

When the young man heard this he went away sorrowful, for he had great possessions.

How can people call themselves 'Christian' when they fail to follow this central teaching of Jesus?

But do you know where Jesus is, so that one could go and follow him?

Are you saying that it's impossible to follow Jesus today since nobody knows where he is?

[Peds nurse]

[Replying to post 2 by Divine Insight]

Hi DI, you offer a thoughtful interpretation. I personally, don't agree with that specific line of thinking. I don't think Jesus was asking the guy to give up everything to become homeless. Jesus, asked him to give it up because He knew it ruled over Him. As long as the man had a lot of money, his possessions took priority over following what God would ask him to do. Remember, the guy kept every other command...but money was too hard to give up. The lesson isn't to become poor financially, but rather to not let anything in our lives hinder our growth in God. Money isn't bad, but the love of it is.

Hope you are just doing peachy!!

[Divine Insight]

Jesus, asked him to give it up because He knew it ruled over Him. As long as the man had a lot of money, his possessions took priority over following what God would ask him to do. Remember, the guy kept every other command...

But you just said it right there. "Remember, the guy kept every other command". If that's the case then the guy wasn't allowing his possessions to take priority over what God had asked him to do.

So your suggestion that money was getting in the way of this man following what God asked him to do isn't supported by these scriptures.

but money was too hard to give up. The lesson isn't to become poor financially, but rather to not let anything in our lives hinder our growth in God. Money isn't bad, but the love of it is.

There is nothing in the story that even remotely suggests that this man's money was hindering his growth in God.

As you say, if money itself isn't bad, then why assume that this man having a lot of money was a problem?

If this is supposed to be some sort of lesson from Christ (possibly even a parable about a rich man who never even existed, it's a very poor lesson because Christ forgot to establish how many was interfering with this man's relationship with God.

~~~~~~

In think there are far more practical explanations for these stories. The first is that they are most likely made up by the authors who "created" their "Jesus character" based on some Jewish religious activist who may have taught similar things.

Another very credible idea is that Jesus himself was actually well-educated in the teachings of Mahayana Buddhism which would have been widely known in his day. If Jesus was a mystic Jew he would have seen no conflict in bringing the spiritual teachings of Mahayana Buddhism into his home religion of Judaism. And these Buddhists did teach that their sages should relinquish all connections to the physical world and society. This actually fits in very well with much of what Jesus taught.

I find this strange too because Christians will often attack Buddhism on this very issue proclaiming that the Buddhist monks would become 'beggars' and refuse to become involve or contribute to society in any physical way. That sounds exactly like what Jesus was teaching people to do. Give up their possessions, leave their families behind, and basically reject all responsibility to social norms and the physical world.

I think he was actually teaching Mahayana Buddhism. Especially as it is taught to Buddhist monks.

Keep in mind that the original Jewish God of Yahweh or YHVH directed men to be "FRUITFUL" and multiply. So the original God of Judaism was telling men to become prosperous and to raise families. Jesus rebuked those very ideals. He was telling men to rebuke prosperity and to abandon their family responsibilities. Just the opposite of what Yahweh commanded men to do.

If we are to follow Jesus we must first rebuke Yahweh.

[Peds nurse]

Jesus, asked him to give it up because He knew it ruled over Him. As long as the man had a lot of money, his possessions took priority over following what God would ask him to do. Remember, the guy kept every other command...

But you just said it right there. "Remember, the guy kept every other command". If that's the case then the guy wasn't allowing his possessions to take priority over what God had asked him to do.

So, if we are at work and we do everything right, except be punctual, we have no reason to expect a rebuke? If my husband works day and night, but is not invested in his family, only money, do I not have the right to call him on it? Did you notice the man's response in the Biblical story? He was sad because he possessed much. The money was a problem because He put it before God. If God is to be first, money cannot be.

So your suggestion that money was getting in the way of this man following what God asked him to do isn't supported by these scriptures.

I disagree. It wouldn't have mattered to the man if God was more important than money.

[Blastcat]

I suggest that one of the major reasons people do not accept Christianity is that Christians do not accept the teachings of Christ.

I started to doubt Christianity due to what I perceived was instances of what I called back then "hypocrisy". You know, the practice of preaching one thing, and acting in an opposite way. I guess I was very young and a bit idealistic. I thought that since people were talking so much about perfection, that it didn't make sense that they weren't so very perfect.

That led me to doubt... and be a critic ... and then take a real hard look at what it is everyone wanted me so much to believe.

The very last nail in the coffin for me were the arguments for gods.... When I discovered just how bad they were, it seemed incredible that I ever DID believe. But I really loved my mama... and she believed so much. If I wanted to be a good boy, of course, I had to be a believer. A very vocal and fervent believer.

I thought that atheism was wrong for oh so many years, and again, it was Christian apologetics, ironically, that actually led me to understand that I was an agnostic AND an atheist.

I think if I had access to debates earlier the like of which are to be found in the forum here, I would have understood all of this religion/atheist stuff a long, long time ago. As it is, it's only really been about 4 years.

Amazing, but true.

A big thanks to everyone who participates in these debates, atheists AND Christians.

[Clownboat]

[Replying to post 2 by Divine Insight]

Hi DI, you offer a thoughtful interpretation. I personally, don't agree with that specific line of thinking. I don't think Jesus was asking the guy to give up everything to become homeless. Jesus, asked him to give it up because He knew it ruled over Him. As long as the man had a lot of money, his possessions took priority over following what God would ask him to do. Remember, the guy kept every other command...but money was too hard to give up. The lesson isn't to become poor financially, but rather to not let anything in our lives hinder our growth in God. Money isn't bad, but the love of it is.

Hope you are just doing peachy!!

No offense of course Peds (because you're wonderful), but you sound just like my pastors explaining how this story is about loving your money, right before they pass the offering bucket.

Coincidence that this was such a common story just before tithes and offerings time?

IMO, this 'he loved his money' take on the story is just too convenient to pass up on before you ask your congrigation to part with 10% of their income if not more.

[PghPanther]

[Replying to Peds nurse]

But why then did not Christ make this point about money perfectly clear to this guy or explain it to whomever heard this so when they continued to tell this oral story as accurately as possible until someone wrote it down decades later?

In fact with that information process how do we know what was really said at all?

How can you assume that Christ meant the love of money so that he could keep some and give away the rest?........Christ told him to give it all up......why? if you think he did not mean that would the story say that?

We are left to interpret what we think was said over 2,000 years ago and still not sure what he actually meant?

That is no way to establish a path of what a person is suppose to follow their whole life with based on these kind of Christ teaching claims.................

[1213]

Are you saying that it's impossible to follow Jesus today since nobody knows where he is?

I just think it may be difficult, if one doesn’t know where Jesus is. Do you think this is something that is not meant to be taken literally? Or that it is not about every person in every point of time?