God is not more merciful than most humans.

[DanieltheDragon]

In order for humans to forgive we go through an emotional state and move past the slight.

In order for God to forgive he has to have a ritualistic blood sacrifice involving torture of a pure being to forgive even the slightest of offenses.


How can God be all powerful if he is restricted in his ability to forgive?

How can God be all merciful if there is a sacrifice restriction on his mercy?

Why does God have a lower capacity of forgiveness than humans?

[hoghead1]

[Replying to post 29 by marco]

Well, it certainly is true that ministry is a service profession, not a research facility. Ministers and priests are certainly charged with a teaching role, but they are not researchers. The Ph.D. is the meal ticket if you want to be a professor. Even for various seminary positions where ministerial experience is absolutely required, such as teaching counseling or preaching, still a Ph.D. is also required, in counseling, speech, etc. I had the opportunity of going into the ministry, getting my M.Div., but I would have had to withdraw from the doctoral program. it is illegal to be in two degree programs at the same time. Since my interests were largely academic, I stuck with the doctoral program. I'm interested in being of service to others, but not of being in a service profession. I guess if I were a pastor, I'd have too many signs on my door saying don't other me, I'm reading Meister Eckhart, or trying to figure out if God is one ever-growing actual entity or a society of perishing entities, or something. Both professions are, of course, vitally important. And much depends on the individual, on his or her communication skills. Marjorie Suchocki, who helped me get started on my dissertation, is a major process thinker and also an ordained pastor. She's great in the pulpit, talking about process, Whitehead, etc.

[Peds nurse]

In order for humans to forgive we go through an emotional state and move past the slight.

Hello DTD!! I hope this finds you and your family well!

If I step on your toe, you could probably overlook the infraction with very little difficulty. If however, I drive reckless, and hurt your child who is playing in the yard, you might have difficulty. Not all things are easy to forgive, nor do all people forgive even the smallest of infractions. Some people hold on to grudges like beggars hold on to loose change.

In order for God to forgive he has to have a ritualistic blood sacrifice involving torture of a pure being to forgive even the slightest of offenses.

I don't think God needs the sacrifices, for it even says in the OT, (I am paraphrasing), what do I need of animals, when the world is mine? The sacrifices were not (and the death of Jesus), for God, they were and are, for His people. In the NT, it is mentioned several times, that the sacrifices of animals were a pleasing aroma unto God. I don't think he liked the smell of blood, but rather the hearts of His people turned to Him. Restoration with His people. Restoration is what Jesus offered, not because God needed anything from Him, but rather, that we did.

How can God be all powerful if he is restricted in his ability to forgive?

He is not restricted, as I said...we are restricted.

How can God be all merciful if there is a sacrifice restriction on his mercy?

I personally, don't have a clue of the extent to which God gives mercy. I am not sure I can wrap my head around it! Human mercy isn't predictable, nor is it consistent.

Why does God have a lower capacity of forgiveness than humans?

I don't see the comparison. God has forgiven millions upon millions of people...can any one person say that?

[DanieltheDragon]

[Replying to post 32 by Peds nurse]

I don't think God needs the sacrifices, for it even says in the OT, (I am paraphrasing), what do I need of animals, when the world is mine? The sacrifices were not (and the death of Jesus), for God, they were and are, for His people. In the NT, it is mentioned several times, that the sacrifices of animals were a pleasing aroma unto God. I don't think he liked the smell of blood, but rather the hearts of His people turned to Him. Restoration with His people. Restoration is what Jesus offered, not because God needed anything from Him, but rather, that we did.

You might need to elaborate here. Why would we need sacrifices so God can forgive us? Why even have sacrifices at all?

[PghPanther]

[Replying to post 1 by DanieltheDragon]

God gets to claim being merciful according to Biblical manuscripts but God's pronouncement of such a claim is always tempered with the trusty get out of jail free card of any criticism by the following statement:

"I'm holy and you are not" and as a result you don't understand my perfection and ways with your puny little sinful mind...........

See Holy is the trait and ticket God gets to use to do whatever divine command he calls no matter how we see it because he's holy and we are not............

You know if I was this God who could speak an entire universe into existence with just words.........then what is the problem with trying to be such a hot shot with all this holy nonsense?

I would have given humans plenty of space and resources so they didn't have conflicts with each other instead of jamming them all together in desert......searching for lands of milk and honey.

This divine being if it exists outside of the human imagination is either a complete failure....... or else its exactly what I suspect it is........an imagined force to explain the unexplainable by primitive pre-scientific cultures crammed with all the insecurities and traits that humans had in such a time.

[Mike Boone]

[Replying to post 34 by PghPanther]

PghPanther, the bible manuscripts about which you began your latest comments, contain so many statements and claims that are contradictory, or just downright silly, that it seems extremely unwise for any reasonably intelligent person to base any definite beliefs concerning a possible God on such a collection of illogical rantings.

I inherited a massive, but beautiful, King James version bible from my North Carolinian grandmother, that contains black & white drawings that accompany many of the passages of books in the old and new testaments.

One day I sat down and started right at the beginning of this 20 pound volume by reading Genesis. But by page 12 I was already laughing about how the book's writer presents the capabilities of a supposedly all-knowing God. Though every Christian minister that I've ever heard makes the claim that God already knows the full details of every event that will ever occur in the future, apparently the writer of Genesis was ignorant that God is supposed to possess such knowledge. Because, shortly before deciding to kill the inhabitants of the world (except for Noah and 7 other humans) with a flood, Genesis states that what supposedly led God to that decision was when God saw how man had become wicked upon the earth. And that statement is presented in a way that definitely seems to indicate that the development of the type of wickedness that had taken over mankind had come as some sort of a shock, and surprise, to God. And a passage in Genesis further states that this wickedness caused God to "repent it in his heart that he had ever made man."

But if God is really an all-knowing, as well as perfect being, he would have known long before he put any humans upon the earth, exactly what those humans would end up doing, and if such actions were so offensive to God, then he would have never created man in the first place. It's pretty stupid to go to the trouble of creating sinners if you know before their creation that you are actually going to end up hating it when your creations start committing sins.

And it's simply absurd to say that a perfect God "repented it in his heart that he made man", because that is virtually a case of God, a being who is claimed to be perfect by all Christian ministers, actually admitting, according to Genesis, that he made a mistake. But, by definition, a perfect being can never make a mistake.

The example just given is just one of dozens of such cases of contradictory and illogical passages in both the old and new testaments. Such nonsensical statements being spotlighted on forums like this are now helping to increase the trend among many people in 21st century America to reconsider the beliefs that they were brainwashed with as children, and come to realize that Einstein's statement that the bible is mostly made up of childish superstition, is actually very true.

But let me now offer a true transition in tone by offering my best wishes and hopes that all of my fellow forum members, along with their families and friends, will be able to enjoy a truly Happy, and Safe, New Year. Take care folks.

[marco]

And it's simply absurd to say that a perfect God "repented it in his heart that he made man", because that is virtually a case of God, a being who is claimed to be perfect by all Christian ministers, actually admitting, according to Genesis, that he made a mistake. But, by definition, a perfect being can never make a mistake.

Hello and welcome Mike, and a healthy and prosperous New Year to you too.

Though I go along with your comments, made many times here, it is interesting to note that the God depicted is the one seen through the primitive lens of old nomads; we have 2-dimensional pictures in black-and-white - not unlike those in your fine Bible. Tyutchev, the Russian poet, said: " a thought once uttered is untrue."

So too with ideas about God. The original might be truth intact, of course.

[Blastcat]

[Replying to post 2 by Wootah]



[center]
Hebrews 2:9 A taste of death
Part One[/center]

In order for humans to forgive we go through an emotional state and move past the slight.

No it did not require torture - the torture was just evil being evil.

God is also just and good, which are more important really.

________________


Hebrews 2:9

21st Century King James Version (KJ21)

• 9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honor, that He by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

_______________

So, apparently, God's "grace" includes a wee little TASTE of death. Sounds like an hors d'oeuvre.

Yum. Fresh blood on a stick.


Imagine what God does when he isn't feeling so very graceful?

He drowns an entire planet, burns cities, sends plagues, just for starters.
THEN, whoever he doesn't like too much, he sends to an eternal torture.

Some "grace", some "justice", some "goodness".
I'm not impressed.

This is the grace, justice and goodness of an evil psychopath.

[Blastcat]

[Replying to post 9 by hoghead1]



[center]Santa > God[/center]

Arguing that God is merciful to some but ruthless and sadistic in punishing others may well accord with many biblical passages, especially in the OT and some in the NT which view God as essentially punitive and juridical. However, it has resulted in the churches alienating many by preaching a double-bind message, which essentially has God saying, "Love me, or I'll beat the tar out of you." As such, it presents a God who really doesn't know the meaning of the word "love." When you truly love others, you do not seek to coerce them by threats.

I agree that the Bible has that kind of god.
A ruthless, punishing, vengeful, jealous god.

I think the stories about god describe a magical, evil psychopath who insists that everyone LOVE him. From my reading, "God" is a psychological mess to be feared, and not in a good way. I like the stories about Santa and Harry Potter much much better.

[Blastcat]

[Replying to post 21 by hoghead1]

What I said is that the penal-substitutionary theory of the atonement does in fact make God a house divided against himself. There is no doubt about that. It also makes God unjust in punishing someone innocent. To the extent that some churches adhere to this theory, they are in fact presenting a contradictory, unjust image of God.

Saying that God is loving but predestined probably the vast majority of the human race to be the reprobate and sent to hell is flatly contradictory. I believe God is essentially loving and merciful, and that means God does not coerce or threaten with terrible punishments. Because God is essentially loving, God loves everyone, not just the elect or Bible-believing Christians, etc.

So, what do you do with all those pesky Bible verses?

[1213]

In order for God to forgive he has to have a ritualistic blood sacrifice involving torture of a pure being to forgive even the slightest of offenses.

For those who may be interested about the truth and want to understand things, Bible actually say that Jesus had right to forgive sins before his death, so in Biblical point of view, the death of Jesus was not necessary for God to forgive.

The scribes and the Pharisees began to reason, saying, "Who is this that speaks blasphemies? Who can forgive sins, but God alone?" But Jesus, perceiving their thoughts, answered them, "Why are you reasoning so in your hearts? Which is easier to say, 'Your sins are forgiven you;' or to say, 'Arise and walk?' But that you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins" (he said to the paralyzed man), "I tell you, arise, and take up your cot, and go to your house." Immediately he rose up before them, and took up that which he was laying on, and departed to his house, glorifying God.
Luke 5:21-25

Reason why Jesus was killed seems to be that he forgave sins, which is why some people taught he is claiming to be God and deserves death.