What is God responsible for?

[Willum]

Many things were done in God's name:
But what is he responsible for?

When the Catholic Nazi Germany attempts a genocide, a man is blamed.
When Hebrews commit genocide on the Canaan, it is his will.

We have plagues, on Catholic countries, for example. The Dark Ages were committed in Yahweh's name. Were they?

Why would Yahweh plunge the civilization of Rome, with health, farming and sanitation, back into the primitive squalor of ancient Jerusalem, if so?

If not, why did he not stop such a terror? It seems to be in His purview.

How does one determine if an act is done in God's will, or men's will?
Does the Bible tell us?

Understanding that free will is a constraint - we can also understand that mob's and large numbers of people lose free will, does this fall into God's purview, then?

In short, how does one know what God is responsible for;
Any group decision?
A decision influenced by prayer?

The position is that presented by Romans 13:

Obey the rulers who have authority over you. Only God can give authority to anyone, and he puts these rulers in their places of power. 2 People who oppose the authorities are opposing what God has done, and they will be punished. 3 Rulers are a threat to evil people, not to good people. There is no need to be afraid of the authorities. Just do right, and they will praise you for it. 4 After all, they are Gods servants, and it is their duty to help you.

The position of the OP is: those atrocities committed by governments, God's will, and he is responsible for them.

[hoghead1]

[Replying to post 99 by Willum]

I don't view God as the Ruthless Moralist, Ruling Caesar, or Unmoved Mover. I view God as the Poet of teh Universe, the Cosmic Artist, who lures the world to higher and greater forms of beauty.

[Monta]

[Replying to post 99 by Willum]

I don't view God as the Ruthless Moralist, Ruling Caesar, or Unmoved Mover. I view God as the Poet of teh Universe, the Cosmic Artist, who lures the world to higher and greater forms of beauty.

mmm nicely put

[marco]

Well, no, see, God isn't just purely passive, God is also active.

The point I made was that you define his active status in terms of the wonderful things he does; he is passive to pain. That is a good way of avoiding the problem of evil and God's inaction.

As I mentioned in another post, I view God as Cosmic Artist, whose chief concern is to maximize beauty, great depth and breadth of experience.

I don't see that a being who concerns himself with cultivating roses while ignoring the whirlwind is much better than a kindly geriatric, resigned to quiet cultivation.

The evil of evils, as I mentioned in a number of previous posts, is that the past fades. We acquire a value, only to lose it. What's the point of doing anything if it is all going to go up in smoke soon enough?

Well Horace had an answer: Exegi monumentum aere perennius - I have built a monument more lasting than bronze. And without the help of Jupiter!

God is the Savior, because God can deliver us from meaninglessness. The passive, empathic, receptive dimensions of God means that all we experience, is carefully preserved and enjoyed in God's memory forever. Hence, everything has meaning, eternal significance.

Our deeds residing in the vaults of God are no better than photographs in an album. They are records of what was done; they change nothing. John Wayne lives every time we watch an old film of his, so this too is eternal life. Your litany - God is the Saviour - is not a consequence of what you have said but an independent act of faith.

[Blastcat]

[Replying to post 100 by hoghead1]

[center]

Time: the evil of evils
Part One[/center]

The evil of evils, as I mentioned in a number of previous posts, is that the past fades.

• 
  Some people have trouble with the idea that time moves on, and call it EVIL

[Willum]

[Replying to post 101 by hoghead1]

Is there any way you can support that view?

I am aware he created everything, but someplace you can describe that creation as poetry and art vice Caesar etc..

[hoghead1]

[Replying to post 103 by marco]

Sorry, but I don't quite follow you. Why did you get the impression I said God just cultivates roses and ignores whirlwinds, for example? My point is that God experiences absolutely everything. That would include whirlwinds.

The evil of evils, I submit, is that the past fades. We all seek meaningfulness. That is our fundamental quest. The problem is that we can find no real meaning in a fleeting world, as nothing lasts. We acquire a value, only to lose it. God is the Savior because God, and only God, can preserve and enjoy all our experiences forever. Hence, we all have eternal significance.

[hoghead1]

[Replying to post 105 by Willum]

I reject traditional images of God as the Ruthless Moralist, Ruling Caesar, and Unmoved Mover because I find them too negative, presenting but a cold, unfeeling Deity. The universe is full of great beauty, and that tells me it was created by a God who has real feeling, real sensitivity. It's hard top believe this wondrous universe was created simply to comply with the tenets of some sort of penal system. I think our primary purpose is to be experiencing entities, and that means enjoy beauty, cultivate depth and breadth of experience.

[Willum]

[Replying to hoghead1]

Hi, that's your opinion. Everybody has one... do you have anything, scripture, for example, that lends credence to your opinion?

https://www.blueletterbible.org/study/p ... aral12.cfm
Here is a list of God's miracles.

It seems he did many more unloving deeds than loving.
I am pretty sure that even the omnipotent can't raise the dead, so, that doesn't mean too much... so that doesn't leave God off very impressive, or imaginative...

Anything?

[marco]

[Replying to post 105 by Willum]

I reject traditional images of God as the Ruthless Moralist, Ruling Caesar, and Unmoved Mover because I find them too negative, presenting but a cold, unfeeling Deity. The universe is full of great beauty, and that tells me it was created by a God who has real feeling, real sensitivity.

When I read the young Keats speaking prophetically in his Nightingale ode:

"Thou wast not born for death, immortal bird;
No hungry generations tread thee down,"

I am surprised and delighted that in a simple young man resides the ability to see beyond our dark screens; and paint a beautiful picture, as wonderful as Michelangelo's David, sculpted from flawed marble. In our best clothes we are gods.

But to lift one's head higher beyond a barren lunar landscape and the vast silent miles of celestial bits and pieces and perceive a sentient God is perhaps personally pleasing, but unjustified.

If I have to place God somewhere in time then he is benevolent, he is forgiving, he understands our follies, he smiles with us .... but when I ask why he doesn't help those who are hurting, infants thrown in gas chambers, he is curiously silent.

[hoghead1]

[Replying to post 108 by Willum]

I think that maybe you are going just on Scripture. I am not. The Bible is not a book of metaphysics, tells us very little about how God is built, just gives us conflicting snap shots. I am into speculative metaphysics. Therefore, I am into extra-biblical sources. However, I think the Bible provides some helpful resources ands implications. The Bible does not tell how or why God created the universe. It does imply that God needs it. The biblical predication of God is largely relative predication. It is hard to be a father without children, a creator without a creation, etc. The Bible provides a highly anthropomorphic image of God. I heartedly agree with that. I view all knowing as analogous knowing. To know anything, we have to generalize from the familiar to the unfamiliar. What we are most familiar with is ourselves, our human existence. hence, unless some analogy, some genuine likeness, exists between ourselves and the rest of reality, and that includes God, we haven't an inking what's really going on.