If you don't believe the Bible.
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If you don't believe the Bible.
Post #1Christians will often insist that certain texts can't be understood to actually mean what is plainly stated. Given enough believers I imagine that most of the Bible would be in dispute. The question is, why should the sceptic believe the Bible if Christianity does not.[/i]
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Youkilledkenny
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Re: If you don't believe the Bible.
Post #2[Replying to post 1 by postroad]
I don't think anything, religion or not, should be believed as true and/or factual is its believers don't.
That just seems silly.
What always raise my eye brows is when people say "Well, to fully understand [insert text or biblical story here], you have to be filled with the spirit. And in order to have that happen you have to believe. And in order to believe you have to trust the bible to be inspired by (or written by depending on what sect is asked) God."
So you're being asked to trust the bible and God because the bible and God say so.
I've always found that down right ludicrous (and not in the Tesla way).
I don't think anything, religion or not, should be believed as true and/or factual is its believers don't.
That just seems silly.
What always raise my eye brows is when people say "Well, to fully understand [insert text or biblical story here], you have to be filled with the spirit. And in order to have that happen you have to believe. And in order to believe you have to trust the bible to be inspired by (or written by depending on what sect is asked) God."
So you're being asked to trust the bible and God because the bible and God say so.
I've always found that down right ludicrous (and not in the Tesla way).
Re: If you don't believe the Bible.
Post #3[Replying to post 2 by Youkilledkenny] I find it curious that the Spirit will lead believers into conflicting beliefs.
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Youkilledkenny
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Re: If you don't believe the Bible.
Post #4[Replying to post 3 by postroad]
There are many curiosities within the bible. I wouldn't put too much emphasis on this one over any others.
After all, logic has no place in religion.
There are many curiosities within the bible. I wouldn't put too much emphasis on this one over any others.
After all, logic has no place in religion.
Re: If you don't believe the Bible.
Post #5[Replying to postroad]
It is more accurate to say, “Christians often insist that you read all passages of the Bible in context.� If we pull out enough sentences or phrases out the Bible, ignoring their context, then we can make the Bible say anything we want. This is why context is important.
I’m not sure if saying that passages in the Bible are in dispute means much. Nearly everything in every area of life is, or has been, in dispute. That says nothing about the accuracy any given statement or idea; it just means that people often dispute things.
It is more accurate to say, “Christians often insist that you read all passages of the Bible in context.� If we pull out enough sentences or phrases out the Bible, ignoring their context, then we can make the Bible say anything we want. This is why context is important.
I’m not sure if saying that passages in the Bible are in dispute means much. Nearly everything in every area of life is, or has been, in dispute. That says nothing about the accuracy any given statement or idea; it just means that people often dispute things.
Understand that you might believe. Believe that you might understand. –Augustine of Hippo
Re: If you don't believe the Bible.
Post #6[Replying to post 5 by bjs]
Are indicating that in the correct context all texts are harmonious? Odd that Christianity has not come to a common understanding. Is the Spirit the author of this confusion?
Are indicating that in the correct context all texts are harmonious? Odd that Christianity has not come to a common understanding. Is the Spirit the author of this confusion?
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ttruscott
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Re: If you don't believe the Bible.
Post #7No, GOD's eternal enemy Satan is responsible...as expressed in this verse: 1 Corinthians 14:33 For God is not a God of confusion but of peace.postroad wrote: [Replying to post 5 by bjs]
Are indicating that in the correct context all texts are harmonious? Odd that Christianity has not come to a common understanding. Is the Spirit the author of this confusion?
PCE Theology as I see it...
We had an existence with a free will in Sheol before the creation of the physical universe. Here we chose to be able to become holy or to be eternally evil in YHWH's sight. Then the physical universe was created and all sinners were sent to earth.
This theology debunks the need to base Christianity upon the blasphemy of creating us in Adam's sin.
We had an existence with a free will in Sheol before the creation of the physical universe. Here we chose to be able to become holy or to be eternally evil in YHWH's sight. Then the physical universe was created and all sinners were sent to earth.
This theology debunks the need to base Christianity upon the blasphemy of creating us in Adam's sin.
Re: If you don't believe the Bible.
Post #8[Replying to post 7 by ttruscott] Odd that Satan can overcome the Spirit? Is he simply more powerful?
Footnotes:
1 Corinthians 6:5-11New International Version (NIV)
5 I say this to shame you. Is it possible that there is nobody among you wise enough to judge a dispute between believers? 6 But instead, one brother takes another to court—and this in front of unbelievers!
7 The very fact that you have lawsuits among you means you have been completely defeated already. Why not rather be wronged? Why not rather be cheated? 8 Instead, you yourselves cheat and do wrong, and you do this to your brothers and sisters. 9 Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men[a] 10 nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.
Re: If you don't believe the Bible.
Post #9[Replying to postroad]
What exactly do you want to debate in this thread? The opening question was about Christians believing our scriptures. My response is the “plainly stated� version that many “skeptics� talk about requires pulling passages out of context to make it appear as if the Bible says what they want it to say.
I have no idea what anything in your response has to do with the question of this debate.
What exactly do you want to debate in this thread? The opening question was about Christians believing our scriptures. My response is the “plainly stated� version that many “skeptics� talk about requires pulling passages out of context to make it appear as if the Bible says what they want it to say.
I have no idea what anything in your response has to do with the question of this debate.
Understand that you might believe. Believe that you might understand. –Augustine of Hippo
Re: If you don't believe the Bible.
Post #10[Replying to post 9 by bjs] kindly reread the OP. Especially the part about "given enough believers"
