If you don't believe the Bible.

[postroad]

Christians will often insist that certain texts can't be understood to actually mean what is plainly stated. Given enough believers I imagine that most of the Bible would be in dispute. The question is, why should the sceptic believe the Bible if Christianity does not.[/i]

[TheBeardedDude]

[Replying to post 39 by JehovahsWitness]

You are applying a narrow and incorrect definition of hypocrite.

Hypocrite: the practice of claiming to have moral standards or beliefs to which one's own behavior does not conform; pretense

Meaning that you apply a different set of moral standards to yourself and your fellow man than you do to your god. Because you define anything and everything your god does as moral and good, but not everything you or your fellow man does. This makes your god beliefs hypocritical. If that makes you uncomfortable, it should.

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 39 by JehovahsWitness]

You are applying a narrow and incorrect definition of hypocrite.

No I am not.

Hypocrite: the practice of claiming to have moral standards or beliefs to which one's own behavior does not conform; pretense

Meaning that you apply a different set of moral standards to yourself and your fellow man than you do to your god.

That is NOT what the definition you yourself posted said. It said a Hypocrite is someone that CLAIMS but does not CONFORM. Someone that prétends (puts on a pretense (noun).

If I claim to recognize God as my supreme ruler and claim that He has rights that are unique to him and also conform my life to that claim and am not "pretending" to do so, the definition of a hypocrite would not here apply.




JW

[TheBeardedDude]

[Replying to post 39 by JehovahsWitness]

You are applying a narrow and incorrect definition of hypocrite.

No I am not.

[Replying to post 39 by JehovahsWitness]

Hypocrite: the practice of claiming to have moral standards or beliefs to which one's own behavior does not conform; pretense

Meaning that you apply a different set of moral standards to yourself and your fellow man than you do to your god.

That is NOT what the definition you yourself posted said. It said a Hypocrite is someone that CLAIMS but does not CONFORM. Someone that prétends (puts on a pretense (noun).

I claim to recognize God as my supreme ruler and claim that He has rights that are unique to him. I conform my life to that claim and am not "pretending" to do so, thus the definition would not apply.


JW

You claim that your god is a moral actor but its actions say otherwise. Therefore you redefine its actions as moral to get around the problem while simultaneously NOT applying the same standard to you and your fellow humans. <- That is hypocritical

[JehovahsWitness]

you redefine its actions as moral to get around the problem

It is irrelevant what process lead to the claims, one can only be defined as a hypocrite by not conforming to them. What they (those standards are) and whether others view them as moral or immoral has not bearing on whether Something is hypocritical or not.

JW

[TheBeardedDude]

[Replying to post 43 by TheBeardedDude]

It is irrelevant what process lead to the claims, one can only be defined as a hypocrite by not conforming to them.

JW

And you don't conform to your definition of morality because you can't because you apply a different moral standard to your god than you do to yourself. Meaning that because you have a double standard, you can't possibly conform to both standards when they contradict one another. This is the burden you place on yourself by defining any and every action of your god as moral by default when humans doing the same thing don't get the same benefit of the doubt. That makes your beliefs, hypocritical. You've defined yourself into a moral corner.

[JehovahsWitness]

you apply a different moral standard to your god than you do to yourself. Meaning that because you have a double standard, you can't possibly conform to both standards when they contradict one another.

I have already addressed that issue above:


Is recognizing God as having certain unique rights a "double standard"?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 572#840572

when humans doing the same thing don't get the same benefit of the doubt.

I have addressed this issue above:

QUESTION: Is the fact that different individuals have the right to do different things "hypocritical"?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 567#840567

[postroad]

[Replying to post 44 by JehovahsWitness]
Was it a moral act for God to demand child sacrifice and then deny having done so?

[TheBeardedDude]

[Replying to post 46 by JehovahsWitness]

Giving your god "unique rights" is special pleading and applying a double standard. God gets one definition of morality, and humans get another. That necessarily places you in a hypocritical position.

[JehovahsWitness]

Giving your god "unique rights" is special pleading [..]. God gets one definition of morality, and humans get another.

No it is not.

SPECIAL PLEADING is a fallacy in which a person applies standards, principles, rules, etc. to others while taking herself (or those she has a special interest in) to be exempt, without providing adequate justification for the exemption.

If the rule is "God decides what is moral". Am I suggesting God is exempt from the rule that "God decides what is moral"? No not at all.

To Illustrate: If I make up a rule that says: "I decide what everyone wears" Obviously, if I decide what *I* get to wear too. In short I apply the same rule (in blue above) to myself and everyone else. Just because I decide I am allowed to wear red and everyone else will wear black, isn't saying I am exempt from the rule.

In the same way there is no "special pleading", one rule ("God decides what is moral' being the rule) for everyone, including God. So when God applies that rule to Himself= he decides; when he applies the same rule to someone else= he decides.


JW

[TheBeardedDude]

[Replying to post 49 by JehovahsWitness]

It is special pleading to give one moral actor a pass and to apply a different definition of moral and immoral to god than to humans. You can keep saying it isn't, but that doesn't make it true. Once again, if it makes you uncomfortable to be a hypocrite, it should. You should consider the ramifications of your positions.