When I learned that the Bible speaks of a restored Garden of Eden and the restoration of mankind to the perfection and endless life that Adam forfeited, I was thrilled. Who doesn't want to keep living on this beautiful earth, with our loved ones, and being able to do all the things we love to do---endlessly?
If God said to you today, "When do you want to die?" would you say "now!!"? I don't think very many people would say that.
We CAN live forever here on Earth. The Bible tells us that we can.
Matthew 5:5
Psalm 37:9-11,29
Paradise on Earth
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onewithhim
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Post #221
[Replying to post 220 by onewithhim]
Is it reasonable to believe that a deity intent on concealing the saving truth from many could not be intent in concealing it from all?
Is it reasonable to believe that a deity intent on concealing the saving truth from many could not be intent in concealing it from all?
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onewithhim
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Post #222
What do you mean?postroad wrote: [Replying to post 220 by onewithhim]
Is it reasonable to believe that a deity intent on concealing the saving truth from many could not be intent in concealing it from all?
Post #223
[Replying to post 222 by onewithhim]
A basic tenant of Christianity is the concept of election. This incorporates the concept that saving grace is reserved for the elect who having been chosen from before the creation of the world are destined for saving belief. These individuals can not be snatched from Jesus's protection. The rest remain completely susceptible to Satans power and unable to comprehend the truth of the gospel and will perish.
A basic tenant of Christianity is the concept of election. This incorporates the concept that saving grace is reserved for the elect who having been chosen from before the creation of the world are destined for saving belief. These individuals can not be snatched from Jesus's protection. The rest remain completely susceptible to Satans power and unable to comprehend the truth of the gospel and will perish.
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onewithhim
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Post #224
This is utter rubbish.postroad wrote: [Replying to post 222 by onewithhim]
A basic tenant of Christianity is the concept of election. This incorporates the concept that saving grace is reserved for the elect who having been chosen from before the creation of the world are destined for saving belief. These individuals can not be snatched from Jesus's protection. The rest remain completely susceptible to Satans power and unable to comprehend the truth of the gospel and will perish.
No truly Christian tenet would set forth such ridiculous nonsense.
Saving grace is NOT reserved for only the elect (who will reign with Christ in heaven during his Thousand-Year Reign). ALL believers will be saved, and many who aren't believers now. (Don't believe the claptrap that no one will have a second chance. That's downright merciless.)
There is a big misunderstanding about what "the founding of the world" means. Please answer this: What is the "world" according to the Apostle John at I John 2:15-17?
"Do not be loving the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him; because everything in the world---the desire of the flesh and the desire of the eyes and the showy display of one's means of life---does not originate with the Father, but originates with the world. Furthermore, the world is passing away...but he who does the will of God remains forever."
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Post #225
[Replying to post 224 by onewithhim]
Do you think your intellect alone is a match for the mind and power capable of holding hostage the will of God himself?
Do you think your intellect alone is a match for the mind and power capable of holding hostage the will of God himself?
Re: Paradise on Earth
Post #226[Replying to post 1 by onewithhim]
everybody wants to go to heaven but nobody wants to die. The spirit of God in us cannot die, but our bodies undeniably do wear out . to die is just to begin a new day though.
everybody wants to go to heaven but nobody wants to die. The spirit of God in us cannot die, but our bodies undeniably do wear out . to die is just to begin a new day though.
Post #227
[Replying to post 219 by JehovahsWitness]
[center]
Blastcat tries to be serious for a minute[/center]
Yeah, I'll have to do a bit of correcting.
Hope you don't take offense.
Number ONE.. I don't have any religious beliefs of any kind whatsoever.
I'm an agnostic and an atheist and a skeptic.
Correction Two:
I keep asking people who ARE religious, if what they believe is true or not?
It might sound like a weird question. But it's an important place to start.
Let's say we discuss your "religion" and find out after years that you never thought your religion was true... woo. Big waste of time.
I've actually TALKED to people like that, hard to believe, but they EXIST. So, I've learned the very hard way to ASK about that. First things first, you see.
And of course, you might be aware of how many times the definition of the word "truth" is debated in here.
There are MANY versions of meanings for that word.
Some people ( in fact, many ) believe that NOTHING is "true", and that depends, of course, on their definition of "truth".
Can you imagine talking for years with a person who has THAT kind of use of the word "truth"? It doesn't really exist? ... Well, welcome to my world.
So, I ask people what they mean when they start discussing deep subjects like truth and love and gods and so on.....
Otherwise, I literally do NOT know what they are talking about.
Thirdly:
Testimony alone isn't good evidence to me, so, no. I never accept something is true "just because" someone tells me it is, or I'd believe way too MUCH.
I think someone who believes all testimony is way too "gullible".
As a skeptic, I try to not believe TOO MUCH or TOO LITTLE, I want to be in that epistemic Goldilocks zone of believing JUST ENOUGH.
AND, in order to do a good job of that, I want to use the BEST THINKING METHODS possible. And that's where "critical thinking" or "skepticism" comes into the picture.
I consider it the best way to think, as it gets the most reliable of results.
And, as I keep saying.. "I'm a work in progress".
Some VERY IMPORTANT phenomenon is happening.
Now, many people say that it's "God".
MANY people do.
I think that's a subject worthy of my time.
Blastcat say : "Lets find out the truth about that."
[center]
Blastcat tries to be serious for a minute[/center]
JehovahsWitness wrote:
So, correct me if I'm wrong, you base your belief of the existence of something (in this case reigious Truth) ONLY on the testimony of others?
Yeah, I'll have to do a bit of correcting.
Hope you don't take offense.
Number ONE.. I don't have any religious beliefs of any kind whatsoever.
I'm an agnostic and an atheist and a skeptic.
Correction Two:
I keep asking people who ARE religious, if what they believe is true or not?
It might sound like a weird question. But it's an important place to start.
Let's say we discuss your "religion" and find out after years that you never thought your religion was true... woo. Big waste of time.
I've actually TALKED to people like that, hard to believe, but they EXIST. So, I've learned the very hard way to ASK about that. First things first, you see.
And of course, you might be aware of how many times the definition of the word "truth" is debated in here.
There are MANY versions of meanings for that word.
Some people ( in fact, many ) believe that NOTHING is "true", and that depends, of course, on their definition of "truth".
Can you imagine talking for years with a person who has THAT kind of use of the word "truth"? It doesn't really exist? ... Well, welcome to my world.
So, I ask people what they mean when they start discussing deep subjects like truth and love and gods and so on.....
Otherwise, I literally do NOT know what they are talking about.
Thirdly:
Testimony alone isn't good evidence to me, so, no. I never accept something is true "just because" someone tells me it is, or I'd believe way too MUCH.
I think someone who believes all testimony is way too "gullible".
As a skeptic, I try to not believe TOO MUCH or TOO LITTLE, I want to be in that epistemic Goldilocks zone of believing JUST ENOUGH.
AND, in order to do a good job of that, I want to use the BEST THINKING METHODS possible. And that's where "critical thinking" or "skepticism" comes into the picture.
I consider it the best way to think, as it gets the most reliable of results.
And, as I keep saying.. "I'm a work in progress".
Well, I don't make it a plan to completely DISREGARD people's testimony. Some kind of phenomenon is happening, and that.. all over the world for thousands of years.JehovahsWitness wrote:
No facts, no physical evidence, not testable or falsifiable data, but you still believe it is possible that religious Truth can exist because other people have said it does?
Some VERY IMPORTANT phenomenon is happening.
Now, many people say that it's "God".
MANY people do.
I think that's a subject worthy of my time.
Blastcat say : "Lets find out the truth about that."
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onewithhim
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Post #228
Postroad, I asked you a question, to further our discussion. Will you answer my post #224 please?postroad wrote: [Replying to post 224 by onewithhim]
Do you think your intellect alone is a match for the mind and power capable of holding hostage the will of God himself?
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onewithhim
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Re: Paradise on Earth
Post #229True, but that "day" would be in the near future, when Jesus resurrects all of the dead. (John 5:28)dio9 wrote: [Replying to post 1 by onewithhim]
everybody wants to go to heaven but nobody wants to die. The spirit of God in us cannot die, but our bodies undeniably do wear out . to die is just to begin a new day though.
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Post #230
[Replying to post 228 by onewithhim]
What exactly would be the point? Christians reserve the right to interpret text literally when it pleases them and spiritualy when that seems prudent. That's a slippery fish I can not seem to catch. Worst of all they have no concensus on which texts are literal and which ones are not.
What exactly would be the point? Christians reserve the right to interpret text literally when it pleases them and spiritualy when that seems prudent. That's a slippery fish I can not seem to catch. Worst of all they have no concensus on which texts are literal and which ones are not.
