Do not make them?

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Do not make them?

Post #1

Post by JehovahsWitness »

Exodus 20:4, 5 (NASB)

You shall not make for yourself an idol, or any likeness of what is in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the water under the earth. You shall not worship them or serve them
> What, in your opinion does this commandment mean?

> What does "any likeness" mean? and would the likeness of a man (rather than an an animal) also be prohibited?

> If the difference between an image and an idol is a matter of attitude and what we do with it, why the prohibition on making them?
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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Post #21

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Post #22

Post by onewithhim »

No Jesus was not and is not God.

His own words, addressed to Jehovah: "This is the way to have eternal life---by knowing you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, the one you sent to earth." (John 17:3, Living Bible)


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Post #23

Post by postroad »

[Replying to post 22 by onewithhim]
what about Thomas?


John 20:27-29New International Version (NIV)

27 Then he said to Thomas, Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe.

28 Thomas said to him, My Lord and my God!

29 Then Jesus told him, Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.
. Is Satan God?

2 Samuel 24:1
[ David Enrolls the Fighting Men ] Again the anger of the Lord burned against Israel, and he incited David against them, saying, Go and take a census of Israel and Judah.

1 Chronicles 21:1
[ David Counts the Fighting Men ] Satan rose up against Israel and incited David to take a census of Israel.

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Post #24

Post by Blastcat »

[Replying to post 22 by onewithhim]





[center]
Confirmation bias is working overtime today
[/center]

onewithhim wrote:
No Jesus was not and is not God.

His own words, addressed to Jehovah: "This is the way to have eternal life---by knowing you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, the one you sent to earth." (John 17:3, Living Bible)
I can interpret that to mean that Jesus is the only true God.
In fact, the connector "AND" is indicative of an ADDITION to the characteristics of the only true God, not the very opposite.


And then there is the problem of conflicting gospel:



Matthew 1:23 - Behold, the virgin shall be with child, and bear a Son, and they shall call His name Immanuel, which is translated, God with us.

Isaiah 9:6 - For unto us a Child is born, Unto us a Son is given; And the government will be upon His shoulder. And His name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

Isaiah 44:6 - (God is the Redeemer)
2 Peter 1:1 (Jesus is the Redeemer) - To those who have obtained like precious faith with us by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ

John 1:1-3 - In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made... 1:14 - And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us,

John 5:17,18 - My Father has been working until now, and I have been working. Therefore the Jews sought to kill Him, because He not only broke the Sabbath, but also said that God was His Father, making Himself equal with God.

John 5:23 - that all should honor the Son just as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him.

John 8:24 - Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for if you do not believe that I AM [He], you will die in your sins.

John 8:58 - Then Jesus said to them, Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.

John 10:30-33 - Jesus answered them, I and My Father are one. Then the Jews took up stones again to stone Him. Jesus answered them, Many good works I have shown you from My Father. For which of those works do you stone Me? The Jews answered Him, saying, For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy, and because You, being a Man, make Yourself God.

John 14:6-7 - Jesus said to him, I AM the way, the truth, and the Life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.

John 14:9-11 - Jesus said to him, Have I been with you so long and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, 'Show us the Father'?

John 20:28 - And Thomas answered and said to Him, My Lord and my God!

Philippians 2:5-7 - Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bond-servant, and coming in the likeness of men.

Colossians 2:9 - For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily

1 Timothy 3:16 - And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifested in the flesh, Justified in the Spirit, Seen by angels, Preached among the Gentiles, Believed on in the world, Received up in glory.

Titus 2:13 - looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ

Revelation 1:8 - I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, says the Lord, who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.

Revelation 22:13 - I AM the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last.... 22:16 - I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things in the churches.

1 Timothy 6:14-16 - our Lord Jesus Christ's appearing, which He will manifest in His own time, He who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings and Lord of lords, who alone has immortality, dwelling in unapproachable light, whom no man has seen or can see, to whom be honor and everlasting power. Amen.




It seems that at least some Bible authors disagreed with our venerable poster.



:)

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Post #25

Post by postroad »

[Replying to post 24 by Blastcat]
I had forgotten about a few of those texts. Some Christians have forgotten about the concept of progressives revealation. Indeed without it Christianity itself is a blasphemy against the OT God. I was informed years ago that when two texts were in conflict then the easer to accept from a human understanding was to defer to the text that was harder to accept.
Isaiah 45:22-23New International Version (NIV)

22 Turn to me and be saved,
all you ends of the earth;
for I am God, and there is no other.
23 By myself I have sworn,
my mouth has uttered in all integrity
a word that will not be revoked:
Before me every knee will bow; Philippians 2:9-11New International Version (NIV)

9 Therefore God exalted him to the highest place
and gave him the name that is above every name,
10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11 and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.
by me every tongue will swear.

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Post #26

Post by onewithhim »

postroad wrote: [Replying to post 22 by onewithhim]
what about Thomas?


John 20:27-29New International Version (NIV)

27 Then he said to Thomas, Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe.

28 Thomas said to him, My Lord and my God!

29 Then Jesus told him, Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.
. Is Satan God?

2 Samuel 24:1
[ David Enrolls the Fighting Men ] Again the anger of the Lord burned against Israel, and he incited David against them, saying, Go and take a census of Israel and Judah.

1 Chronicles 21:1
[ David Counts the Fighting Men ] Satan rose up against Israel and incited David to take a census of Israel.
Yes, what about Thomas? He could not have been speaking directly to Jesus when he uttered those words. All the disciples knew that Jesus was God's Son, and that he never claimed to be God. Surely if Jesus was God John would've reiterated that point after Thomas made that exclamation, but John doesn't back that idea up at all. In fact he writes, three verses later, nothing about Jesus being God, but making clear that Jesus is God's Son:

"These have been written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing you may have life in his name." (John 20:31, NASB)


You ask, "Is Satan God?" I don't know why you ask this, and the scriptures you cite don't have anything to do with the discussion as far as I can see. It is a no-brainer......no, Satan is not God.



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Post #27

Post by postroad »

[Replying to post 26 by onewithhim]
The stories are identicall,describing the same event. So who was it that incited David. And the text clearly states that Thomas was talking to Jesus. Your conformation bias is causing you to bend the texts into awkward understanding.

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Post #28

Post by onewithhim »

postroad wrote: [Replying to post 26 by onewithhim]
The stories are identicall,describing the same event. So who was it that incited David. And the text clearly states that Thomas was talking to Jesus. Your conformation bias is causing you to bend the texts into awkward understanding.
No, it is your bias that causes you to cling to the idea that Jesus is God, even though dozens of other scriptures counter that notion.


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Post #29

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Post #30

Post by onewithhim »

postroad wrote: [Replying to post 28 by onewithhim]

Who incited David?
Fair question, and it inspires me to research it.

First, the scripture at 2 Samuel 24:1 reads: "Now again the anger of the LORD burned against Israel, and it incited David against them to say, 'Go, number Israel and Judah.'" (NASB)

Or: "And the anger of Jehovah addeth to burn against Israel, and an adversary moveth David about them, saying, 'Go, number Israel and Judah.'" (Young's Literal Translation)

Or: "And again the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel, and he [footnote: Satan] moved David against them to say, Go, number Israel and Judah." (KJV)

So there seems to be a variety of opinions on what the verse actually says. Most versions say "he," but others say (as noted above) "it," "an adversary," and even "Satan" in a footnote (because, they note, I Chronicles 21:1 says "Satan"). Therefore, I find the most plausible explanation to be thus: The "it" in the NASB version is not identified there. That is why I Chronicles 21:1 helps us in this regard. After these few things have been considered, I will go with "Satan" as the one who incited David to number Israel.



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