Is Satan capable of manipulating the internet?

[Willum]

There is a debate raging about Satan on another OP, but I think it is funny in the light of arguing about a non-existent creature.

Even so, Satan has a heck of a lot of powers. Typing I expect, might be one of them. Manipulating the internet, might be one of them.

Since God has a non-interference policy, and Satan does not -
What stops old Nick from completely manipulating mankind from the complete carrot and stick approach?

The amount of power he'd have, especially on forums like this one is frighteningly incalculable.

Since, that is game over, isn't this just another proof that Satan, and probably God himself just don't exist?

[Hector Barbosa]

[Replying to post 28 by JehovahsWitness]

Vomit is a good analogy I think for that which is unclean, repulsive, garbage. That is how we view pornography except that porn is more harmful. I do understand though that for non-witnesses it is hard for them to separate, what is morally unclean and unhealthy which is how we view the misuse of the body, from the body itself. Maybe I can help with an illustration.

Is a knife unclean? or bad, ugly or dirty? No. But if you use the knife to murder a baby, then Something bad, ugly, dirty and immoral has been done with that thing. In a similar way, for us, in our culture, it is possible to take Something clean, and by misusing it, make it "dirty". The body can showered but immorality makes the act dirty.

Sure but does a unclean act with a knife make the knife itself unclean or it is the act and thought behind it which is?

Same for the pornography. Is the naked body unclean because one use it poorly? It's still the same body and a body which according to theist is created by God who is perfect and also see the pornography. So that would seem to indicate that it is not the body or porn itself which is the problem, but the intention behind the porn (to deceive, degrade) and the misuse of the body to deceive and degrade instead of to use it to create and uplift.
Some porn is of the nature of exploiding innocence or victims not knowing they are filmed, and so there is no act of evil indend done with the body in those cases, the evil intend lies in those who exploid the information, the manipulation William talks about.

So as I see it the vomit does not fit in describing the naked body or even the porn, but rather in the intend to manipulate, degrade and deceive. But these intend are found in so many things including materialism and world authorities even in many religions. The Catholic church for example has been involved with many such scandals. Should that be as much vomit then as the porn?

Why is porn feared so much while so much power abuse which is far more dangerous is being ignored?

All you have to do to avoid the porn is not to watch it, but the manipulation of power abuse by world leaders and the system is almost impossible to avoid even if you want to.

So I do not disagree that porn is evil, I disagree with the proportion of blame given to it when so much greater evil is being ignored.

I guess its easier to fight a picture which can not defend itself, than a system which has armies to defend it...but then the truth is really that what we fear with the porn or internet manipulation is more our own weakness isn't it?

For is there more morality in fighting porn that power abuse by the world leaders which has porn as just one of thousands of tools to control and manipulate the masses?

[Hector Barbosa]

[Replying to post 25 by JehovahsWitness]

This is just our view, I understand it is unusual but that is just a fact about how we function as a group. We do not leave the educate our children as to morals and sexual behaviour to pornography.

Nah not to me, generally speaking I agree with and applaud the idea of morals and fighting for them.

I just think its a bit hypocritical to fight a lesser evil while ignoring a bigger one, and hypocrisy is something I find at least as vomitous as porn.

In fact as you say, if children are not educated about morals and porn it is quite natural for them to become attracted to it when they get older, for the attraction is apart of the human body, and if you believe in God then it must be part of God's creation too right?

[Willum]

[Replying to post 32 by Hector Barbosa]

And the point of this OP is how do you sort through the appearance of right and wrong, when Satan and his legions, according to Christian belief, could have taken over the information superhighway, and twisted everything around?

It is more than within the alleged powers of Satan to do so, and how would you know?

In short, Descartes "Evil Demon" hypothesis has become a reality, even if only a shadow of what he envisioned.

[Hector Barbosa]

[Replying to post 33 by Willum]

And the point of this OP is how do you sort through the appearance of right and wrong, when Satan and his legions, according to Christian belief, could have taken over the information superhighway, and twisted everything around?

It is more than within the alleged powers of Satan to do so, and how would you know?

In short, Descartes "Evil Demon" hypothesis has become a reality, even if only a shadow of what he envisioned.

Yeah well to me it is fairly irrelevant if the internet is manipulated and twisted by Satan, followers of Satan or evil people which exist without a Satan existing in regard to this question.

For it is not so much about if Satan exist or not, I guess that is connected to the question if God does or not.

It is more about if there is someone who manipulates the net to use it for evil.

And I have no doubt there is, just like I have no doubt that there are people who use the net for good to inform others of the consequences of evil.

All the internet is, is a world of information given out in pixels...the internet itself does not lie or tell the truth, it just does as instructed by someone.

So it is natural that the internet will have its information used for as much good and evil as there is good and evil people to use the internet.

So as I see it, the internet is not really to blame at all...just like tv's are not to blame for the junk shown on it.

What is to blame is the value and the people who use the information to deceive to get control over others, rather than to enlighten and set others free.

Is more than within the alleged powers of Satan to do so, and how would you know?

I guess the only way to know is to get to the source of all good and all evil, to do that we have to understand morality, conscience, the creation process and who we are and where we came from and will go.

I don't know of anyone who knows this, I sure don't. But I know I exist, I know evil and good exists and I know that knowledge is power.

Does it really matter who is responsible for the evil? It could be anyone and there could be anyone to replace those responsible if we do not at first learn to recognize very clearly what evil is and what good is, and I think that is the key to this argument.

In a way I think everything we discuss and is aware of has an identity and is a reality including demons. For the topic would not exist if there was not a truth to the topic. I am not convinced that literal demons exist, but the concept of something demonic sure does and it has a influence in our reality.

[Willum]

[Replying to post 34 by Hector Barbosa]

And if Satan and his legions have the powers ascribed to them and have taken over the internet and used it for evil?

This is entirely inline with legend.

What defense would their be?

[Hector Barbosa]

[Replying to post 35 by Willum]

And if Satan and his legions have the powers ascribed to them and have taken over the internet and used it for evil?

This is entirely inline with legend.

What defense would their be?

Defense of Satan having this power or defense against him having this power?

A defense of him having this power could be the countless of evidence of evil not only on the net, but in the world in general with a lack of source to prove where the evil comes from or proof that it is in humans, so that could point to that there may indeed be a devil.

Defense against that argument could be that the evil comes from the humans themselves, is inherently in nature or that what we see on the net isn't actually evil at all.

I personally do not buy the argument that there is not evil on the internet, I agree with JW that there is, though maybe to a different degree.

Evil exist, but if the evil is a source of a evil being with power or the product of human ignorance and greed or a natural mortal competitive world is tough to say really.

I have never met Satan, though I know a few who claim they have but none of them has said he came in binary form

[Willum]

[Replying to Hector Barbosa]

Well, I suppose the idea that Satan and his minions could transform into succubi and seduce mankind away from goodness, could assume the form of professors and seduce people away from goodness, assume the icons of priests and seduce people away from goodness... is irrefutable.

When Satan was imagined, the internet wasn't.
Essentially the powers that people ascribed to him would essentially result in a complete abandonment of Christian truth, were there any.

All he'd have to do is seduce people to the wrong good. In othe words, if JW is right, convince people to be Buddhists.

There are infinite ways to be wrong.
Only one way to be right.

Since this is not occurring, it is reasonable to assume Satan and his hosts of demons don't exist.

[Hector Barbosa]

[Replying to post 37 by Willum]

When Satan was imagined, the internet wasn't.
Essentially the powers that people ascribed to him would essentially result in a complete abandonment of Christian truth, were there any.

All he'd have to do is seduce people to the wrong good. In other words, if JW is right, convince people to be Buddhists.

There are infinite ways to be wrong.
Only one way to be right.

Since this is not occurring, it is reasonable to assume Satan and his hosts of demons don't exist.

Yes true and good points though your conclusion about Satan's alleged power to prove Christian truth wrong seems to forget the greater power prescribed God and the Holy spirit is greater.

So the existence of a Satan would only reaffirm mankind's need for God and the Holy spirit and so would strengthen the Christian argument and JW's claims when everything is put into perspective.

For then it would appear that though Satan might be more powerful than man, that God and the Holy Spirit are more powerful than Satan, and so victory over Satan is only possible with help from God.

So as you say it is pretty hard to refute the argument, for there is no obvious contradictions to prove since Satan and the Holy Spirit are spirit's and can not be measured with modern technology. So they could be present, and they could also be fictional.

[Willum]

[Replying to Hector Barbosa]

No, no, no.

The internet would magnify Satan's power, according to the Bible, in such a way that the constraints placed upon God, (freewill, etc.), that he would be able to seduce all of mankind down the wrong path, mankind being helpless to resist.

God may be more powerful than Satan, but he takes no hand in things, whereas, if Satan & friend did exist, it would only take a very few to seduce mankind over to the darkside, while God did zilch.

You with me yet?

Imagine if you will about 2000 fallen angels (~1/3 of the stars of heaven) joining facebook, participating on religious sites, sending seducto-grams via spam, etc., all with the nefarious purpose of seducing man away from God.

Satan and his legios won't announce themselves, therefore the weird letter you get from your friend that makes you mad or something could be from a Satan-sock puppet bent on stealing your soul.

God certainly won't do anything about it - or will he? and then, what?

Since man are about as wicked as always, Satan doesn't exit. Therefore God doesn't exist.

Am I wrong?

[Hector Barbosa]

[Replying to post 39 by Willum]

No, no, no.

The internet would magnify Satan's power, according to the Bible, in such a way that the constraints placed upon God, (freewill, etc.), that he would be able to seduce all of mankind down the wrong path, mankind being helpless to resist.

ehh...que? Where do you get this from in the Bible? I have not read that Bible version which talks about Satan's binary internet power or mankind being helpless to resist Satan, are you reading another Bible than I am?

God may be more powerful than Satan, but he takes no hand in things, whereas, if Satan & friend did exist, it would only take a very few to seduce mankind over to the darkside, while God did zilch.

You with me yet?

Yes this part I understand, but the Bible makes it very clear that eventually God DOES take hand in things and defeats Satan.

Imagine if you will about 2000 fallen angels (~1/3 of the stars of heaven) joining facebook, participating on religious sites, sending seducto-grams via spam, etc., all with the nefarious purpose of seducing man away from God.

Oh there are probably far more than 2000 and I am sure they wont be limited to facebook, if they have that kind of numbers and powers I am sure some of them are even on this site

Satan and his legios won't announce themselves, therefore the weird letter you get from your friend that makes you mad or something could be from a Satan-sock puppet bent on stealing your soul.

Naughty guy that Satan.

God certainly won't do anything about it - or will he? and then, what?

If you believe the Bible it is very clear about that God WILL do something about it and that Satan will be defeated and that there will be 1000 years of peace after all the "non-believers" has been eliminated.

Since man are about as wicked as always, Satan doesn't exit.

Que?

Why would man's wickedness be evidence that Satan doesn't exist? If anything it is a evidence that Satan DOES exist or at best completely irrelevant to the argument.

Therefore God doesn't exist.

Am I wrong?

Yes I am quite sure you are, your argument is a bit Freudian if you ask me. You have all the right observations, but your conclusions seems to have their drinks spiked again