Would you shoot another Christian?

[postroad]

I was thinking about this from some of the discussions involving JW doctrine. The pacifist position is also shared with the faith based group in which I grew up. The Mennonites refused to participate in any wars. Some of the conversations that I remember revolved around the concept of picking up a gun and killing another believer who also was baptized and had the Holy Spirit. Of particular concern was the thought of dropping bombs on innocent families. They believed that God would never forgive such blasphemy. Any thoughts on the matter.

[Furrowed Brow]

I'm an atheist so can't answer your question from the perspective you are looking for. I am not a pacifist. However I find the general question about killing for your country or under orders interesting because I can't imagine doing either. Maybe as a young man if had joined the army I would be more plastic and ready to fit in and obey, but not now. knowing and feeling as I do now - if I happened to be twenty-five years younger and of an age that I might be conscripted I'd avoid the draft or if I failed to do that I am not sure. Probably keep my head down and do my best to stay away from the front line. If I failed to do that I would defend myself and my friends. But whether I shot someone or not is not a spiritual matter. It seems more realistic to parse the question in terms of economics, class and imperialism and ask myself the question why I am really standing in some corner of a foreign field. I see the existence of standing armies and military actions abroad as imperialistic in pursuit of profit and the geopolitical aims of political elites. War is a racket and the working classes are cannon fodder is a tenet to live by. If my son came home and said he was thinking of join up I'd advise him against it and tell him not to buy into the mythology and the propaganda and to see himself as a soldier of economic opportunists.

If the questions is turned to other situations like defending family and home from intruders - I live in England and we don't have guns. If I had to I could probably bash someone over the head with an old golf putter kept in the garage. But I'd prefer to avoid that.

As someone with a socialistic world view it is not shared spiritual values that connects me to other people. That seems a poor ethic to live by. When giving to charity the thought never crosses my mind that I hope my money goes to help the atheist children first or the secular village before the religious village.

When it comes down to a question of who does or does not get a bullet I do not value the life of atheists over Christians or Muslims or Hindus etcetera. If we could think up some contrived thought experiment in which a choice could not be avoided and I had to choose and shoot someone it is doubtful I would use religion or lack of religion as the metric and would where possible always choose not to shoot anyone or bash anyone over the head with my old golf putter.

It strikes me that if a religious person found themselves in the position of having to shoot someone the question they should ask themselves is whether they have done everything they could to understand how they got themselves in that position. Could they justify the actions to an all knowing being. I think someone who is truly searching in their questioning would find it extremely difficult to accept being a soldier that takes orders.

[Redhawk]

I was thinking about this from some of the discussions involving JW doctrine. The pacifist position is also shared with the faith based group in which I grew up. The Mennonites refused to participate in any wars. Some of the conversations that I remember revolved around the concept of picking up a gun and killing another believer who also was baptized and had the Holy Spirit. Of particular concern was the thought of dropping bombs on innocent families. They believed that God would never forgive such blasphemy. Any thoughts on the matter.

Americans love violence and murder. Given the right circumstances we would blast the hell out of our own people - Christian or not.

Case in point is Blackwater and associated mercenary troops hired by the US government. These lawless organizations are paid extremely well to kill and destroy anyone that they feel like killing and they are not punished for it. They are rewarded with high pay.

The US military has a Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ). Any member of the military that conducts themselves in an inapporpriate fashion may be rewarded with time in Leavenworth prison. Members of the US mercenary armies, like Blackwater, have no such code of restraint. At worst, their members are simply fired (and then hired again by another mercenary army).

Most mercenaries are Americans and yes - they would fire upon our own people with or without orders to do so, with or without justification. THIS IS the current situation of the US government. Every day it becomes more like a criminal organization.

The US military has prided itself upon honor. The US government has none and is now actively employing armed civilian armies that have none either.

Don't kid yourself. The America you grew up in no longer exists.

and that's me, hollering from the choir loft...

[Youkilledkenny]

[Replying to post 1 by postroad]

The Mennonites refused to participate in any wars.

This confuses some people (How can anyone be a pacifist in today's world?!?) but if you're part of a culture that basically keeps to itself, I don't see how this would be a negative.
[

[Youkilledkenny]

[Replying to post 1 by postroad]

In the chance of being unpopular, I wouldn't have a problem shooting most anyone if the situation was right.
Christians, I would think, would be on the more conservative side of the argue (meaning not wanting to shoot anyone), generally speaking.
But American Christians are a rare breed indeed so who knows

concept of picking up a gun and killing another believer who also was baptized and had the Holy Spirit.

Curious as to where this concept come from. In other words, why would someone think to do this?

[Wootah]

I was thinking about this from some of the discussions involving JW doctrine. The pacifist position is also shared with the faith based group in which I grew up. The Mennonites refused to participate in any wars. Some of the conversations that I remember revolved around the concept of picking up a gun and killing another believer who also was baptized and had the Holy Spirit. Of particular concern was the thought of dropping bombs on innocent families. They believed that God would never forgive such blasphemy. Any thoughts on the matter.

Christians are saved by the grace of God but that doesn't mean they cease being evil and if that evil requires force to stop them then so be it.

Extreme pacifists seem to me to be relying on someone else to do the dirty work.

[Youkilledkenny]

[Replying to post 5 by Wootah]

Extreme pacifists seem to me to be relying on someone else to do the dirty work.

What constitutes an 'extreme pacifists' as use here?
Would this include a group of people and/or individuals?
What kind of upbringing would they tend to have?

[postroad]

[Replying to post 4 by Youkilledkenny]
My grandparents were the generation that would have been the age of conscription in WW2. Germany was also a nationaly Christian nation. While not Penticostal they were baptized in the name of the Father, Son. and Holy Spirit. They believe that Spirit resides in a Christian after baptism. To take up arms is not allowed period. To take up arms against another Christian is basically blasphemy of the Spirit. Basically admitting to the unbeliever that not only can Christianity not maintain a superficial unity but will put earthly nationality before the Kingdom and destroy the Temple in which the Spirit resides. That is the bodies and body of Christ.

[postroad]

[Replying to post 5 by Wootah]
Yes they believe that God will always provide a way in which they can remains true to their belief. That would include being killed as an option.

[Youkilledkenny]

[Replying to post 7 by postroad]

My how times have changed, eh?
Or is it not so much time, but the evolution of people within certain societies?