Jehovah’s Witnesses only ones that will be saved?????

[Donray]

Jehovah’s Witnesses teach that only 144,000 people will go to heaven. God chooses these 144,000 individuals, the process began with the first century Christians and was completed in the year 1935. Of course from 1879 (the year the Watchtower started) till 1935 only faithful Jehovah’s Witnesses were chosen for this special role. All faithful Jehovah’s Witnesses not chosen to be among the 144,000 elite that go to heaven (those joining the Watchtower after 1935) will spend eternity on earth. All other people on the earth will be destroyed at war of Armageddon here on earth. This would also include any Jehovah's Witnesses who has been disfellowshipped or is otherwise unfaithful to the Watchtower and has not worked his or her way back into the good graces of the Watchtower by the time of Armageddon.

If one believes the JWs all other Christians and everyone that is not a JW will not go to heaven or live on the Earth after Armageddon.

Question for debate is JW the only true Christin religion or is it some type of cult that calls itself Christian?

[Hector Barbosa]

[Replying to post 169 by JehovahsWitness]

While most Christian groups teach that everyone (without limit) will go to heaven and presumably rule with Christ (or play harps for all eternity), does that really make sense?

No I agree it does not, but I have difficulty making sense of exactly 144.000 and 12.000 of each of 12 tribes to be saved too.
Further I do not get the impression that either of these two doctrines are really taught in the bible.

You mention a paradise on earth, do the Jehova's Witnesses believe paradise and heaven to be the same things or two different places.

If you mean are those of that number predestined before birth to be so, no. Jehovah's Witnesses are not Calvenists and do not believe in predestination

Good! I don't think predestination makes sense from a biblical perspective.

I myself am one of JWs but I don't have the hope or desire to go to heaven

Why not?

To choose what? Whether we will go to heaven or not? Eternal life is not "a choice" its an undeserved gift.

If its a undeserved gift then how is God just for giving it just to 144.000 and not to the rest?

Thanks for your thorough answers though I am still unsure about the significance of the 144.000, but I will look through your links and see if it can clarify the doctrine for me.

[Hector Barbosa]

[Replying to post 170 by onewithhim]

Are you a Jehova's Witness or Christian then?

It's great to have a hope if the hope is based on evidence of truth which can give the hope substance.

I have hope's too, but my hope is based on my love of truth and a hope I see possible if all truth is revealed. What we will find then I don't know, but it will be greater freedom to act and create for sure, and that sounds pretty good to me

[JehovahsWitness]

I have difficulty making sense of exactly 144.000 and 12.000 of each of 12 tribes to be saved too.

Did you understand that although the we believe the overal number (144,000) to be the literal limit on the size of government, that the 12,000 x12 is symbolic in that those going to heaven will not be divided in 12 groups of tribes. The 144,000 therefore is not made up of literal Jews (descendants of Abraham) and they are NOT divided into 12 literal division of any race or tribe?

[JehovahsWitness]

PEOPLE GO TO HEAVEN FOR THE SOLE REASON OF BECOMING PART OF GODS GOVERNMENT TO RULE OVER THE EARTH (Revelation 20:6)

[JehovahsWitness]

You mention a paradise on earth, do the Jehova's Witnesses believe paradise and heaven to be the same things or two different places

Two completely different things. When we say "earth" we are usually referring to this our planet earth. When we say heaven we are usually referring to the invisible spirit realm where God lives. These are two different places. When we speak about "paradise" or "paradise earth" we are speaking about this our planet in top condition. This will happen when God's kingdom (the government of 144,000 rulers) takes over control of the planet and destroys all human governments, replacing them with its own one world government*

The earth will be restrored to the beautiful garden-like conditions it had in the garden of Eden. Many million of people will live on this our planet earth under such ideal living conditions.




Further reading: Life in Paradise restored
https://www.jw.org/en/publications/maga ... -paradise/



* This government or kingdom will be loctated not in Washington, London or Paris but in HEAVEN.

[Checkpoint]

[Replying to post 171 by Hector Barbosa]

[Replying to post 169 by JehovahsWitness]

Quote:
While most Christian groups teach that everyone (without limit) will go to heaven and presumably rule with Christ (or play harps for all eternity), does that really make sense?

You wrote:

No I agree it does not, but I have difficulty making sense of exactly 144.000 and 12.000 of each of 12 tribes to be saved too.
Further I do not get the impression that either of these two doctrines are really taught in the bible.

I do not get that impression either.

What, for you, is the main problem each presents?

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 169 by JehovahsWitness]

While most Christian groups teach that everyone (without limit) will go to heaven and presumably rule with Christ (or play harps for all eternity), does that really make sense?

No I agree it does not, but I have difficulty making sense of exactly 144.000 and 12.000 of each of 12 tribes to be saved too.
Further I do not get the impression that either of these two doctrines are really taught in the bible.

You mention a paradise on earth, do the Jehova's Witnesses believe paradise and heaven to be the same things or two different places.

If you mean are those of that number predestined before birth to be so, no. Jehovah's Witnesses are not Calvenists and do not believe in predestination

Good! I don't think predestination makes sense from a biblical perspective.

I myself am one of JWs but I don't have the hope or desire to go to heaven

Why not?

To choose what? Whether we will go to heaven or not? Eternal life is not "a choice" its an undeserved gift.

If its a undeserved gift then how is God just for giving it just to 144.000 and not to the rest?

Thanks for your thorough answers though I am still unsure about the significance of the 144.000, but I will look through your links and see if it can clarify the doctrine for me.

No one has said that only 144,000 will be saved. The billions to live on a paradise earth will be saved also.

The doctrine of a smaller group ruling with Christ in heaven, and the rest of "the righteous," which will number undoubtedly in the billions, who will live under Christ's rule, is definitely taught in the Bible, and it has been being confirmed by many Scriptures.

Paradise on Earth and Heaven are two different places. God has always been in Heaven. Even when He created the earth and humans. When He created the earth and humans, it was His purpose that humans live here forever without ever dying. Adam messed up that whole thing by asserting his independence and choosing to run his own life by his own laws. But God's plans never changed.

Does anyone really have the desire to go to heaven? Don't we really want to continue to live here and not die? No one likes to think of their day of death. It's not pleasant, as it should be if they were really excited about going into the spirit world where they would do----what? Nah. I think people want to live right here and be able to do what they like to do. Fish. Ski. Eat. Swim. Plant gardens. Golf. Restore a car. Have physical relations with a mate. None of that is done in heaven. Why do YOU want to go to heaven?

The 144,000 can have heaven, with my congratulations. They will be serving all the rest of us down here.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 170 by onewithhim]

Are you a Jehova's Witness or Christian then?

It's great to have a hope if the hope is based on evidence of truth which can give the hope substance.

I have hope's too, but my hope is based on my love of truth and a hope I see possible if all truth is revealed. What we will find then I don't know, but it will be greater freedom to act and create for sure, and that sounds pretty good to me

I am a Jehovah's Witness and a Christian. We are both. I believe that our hopes are based on evidence of truth. I hope you find JW's links interesting.

[Checkpoint]

I have difficulty making sense of exactly 144.000 and 12.000 of each of 12 tribes to be saved too.

Did you understand that although the we believe the overal number (144,000) to be the literal limit on the size of government, that the 12,000 x12 is symbolic in that those going to heaven will not be divided in 12 groups of tribes. The 144,000 therefore is not made up of literal Jews (descendants of Abraham) and they are NOT divided into 12 literal division of any race or tribe?

This mixing of symbolic and literal is arbitrary and illogical, and not good hermeneutics.

[tam]

Peace to you,

The 144 000 is a literal number. The 12 000 from each tribe is a literal number. The 12 listed tribes are literally those 12 tribes as well. (The Jews make up a portion of Israel - two tribes: Judah and Benjamin; but God does not forget the other ten tribes, despite the world forgetting them, the Jews denying them, or them even forgetting themselves).

That 144 000 is the number of Israel that God has RESERVED for Himself. So that a remnant of Israel (literal) is guaranteed. God does NOT forget Israel (literal). This I learned from my Lord.



The 144 000 is part of the Great Crowd (a number that no one could count, as John reports in Revelation). I used to think that these were two groups, though they became one, but a dear sister in Christ received from Him that the 144 000 is a subset of the great crowd. And that makes sense, since the Great Crowd is made up of EVERY tribe (which would necessarily include those 12 tribes of Israel), nation, people and tongue. Not every OTHER tribe, nation, people and tongue.


But 144 000 spots are reserved for literal Israel, 12000 from those literal twelve tribes.


This is the significance of that number and those tribes being listed.

**


This truth, however, flies in the face of WTS doctrine, which insists that only certain members make up this 144 000, and that only those ones partake of the body and blood of Christ. They teach that everyone else (most if not all of those who are left on the earth today in that organization) are NOT to partake of the body and blood of Christ. So Christ is disobeyed and denied at the memorial every year - disobeying His command to eat and drink of Him and to keep doing this (eating and drinking) in remembrance of Him, in lieu of obeying men rather than God (who said to listen to His Son) - and the people call this good. (Isaiah 5:20)

Yet Christ said:

"Truly, truly, I tell you, unless you eat the flesh and drink the blood of the Son of Man, you have no life in you."



And:



"Anyone who loves ME, will obey MY commands. My Father will love them and we will come and make our home within them."





May those who wish them be given ears to hear, and may all who thirst and all who seek, "Come! Take the free gift of the water of Life!"



Peace to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy