Jehovah’s Witnesses only ones that will be saved?????

[Donray]

Jehovah’s Witnesses teach that only 144,000 people will go to heaven. God chooses these 144,000 individuals, the process began with the first century Christians and was completed in the year 1935. Of course from 1879 (the year the Watchtower started) till 1935 only faithful Jehovah’s Witnesses were chosen for this special role. All faithful Jehovah’s Witnesses not chosen to be among the 144,000 elite that go to heaven (those joining the Watchtower after 1935) will spend eternity on earth. All other people on the earth will be destroyed at war of Armageddon here on earth. This would also include any Jehovah's Witnesses who has been disfellowshipped or is otherwise unfaithful to the Watchtower and has not worked his or her way back into the good graces of the Watchtower by the time of Armageddon.

If one believes the JWs all other Christians and everyone that is not a JW will not go to heaven or live on the Earth after Armageddon.

Question for debate is JW the only true Christin religion or is it some type of cult that calls itself Christian?

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 215 by onewithhim]
Does this mean you are only parroting Spiritual truth as you have been instructed by others?
That would be an interesting concept.

I am not parroting anything. What I am saying is the result of many years (45) of studying the Bible so that I could convince myself of the accuracy of JWs' teachings. I actually came up with many ideas on my own that were LATER confirmed by the WTS. I have studied very deeply and continue to do so.

[postroad]

[Replying to post 221 by onewithhim]

Right. You had no concept of Jesus's resurected body switching between spiritual and physical dimensions until very recently. Did you study your way into that conclusion?

[postroad]

[Replying to post 220 by onewithhim]

Is this another untruth statement?

"No matter where we may live on earth, God’s Word continues to serve as a light to our path and a lamp to our roadway as to our conduct and beliefs. (Ps. 119:105) But Jehovah God has also provided his visible organization, his "faithful and discreet slave", made up of spirit-anointed ones, to help Christians in all nations to unders"No matter where we may live on earth, God’s Word continues to serve as a light to our path and a lamp to our roadway as to our conduct and beliefs. (Ps. 119:105) But Jehovah God has also provided his visible organization, his "faithful and discreet slave", made up of spirit-anointed ones, to help Christians in all nations to understand and apply properly the Bible in their lives. Unless we are in touch with this channel of communication that God is using, we will not progress along the road to life, no matter how much Bible reading we do." Watchtower 1981 Dec 1 p.27tand and apply properly the Bible in their lives. Unless we are in touch with this channel of communication that God is using, we will not progress along the road to life, no matter how much Bible reading we do." Watchtower 1981 Dec 1 p.27

Who is this " faithful and discreet slave "?

[Hector Barbosa]

[Replying to post 214 by JehovahsWitness]
I understand you don't believe it's true (that's the faith part) but, please assure me you understand the basic message: we are talking about living FOREVER, without ever getting sick and never dying but continuing in good health with perfect bodies forever on this our planet earth.

yes thank you I think I understand the basic message and I can understand the appeal of living forever for sure, especially if it is in a better place than the place we live now.

Okay, this was an error on my part. I introduced some concepts in trying to explain the idea of "spiritual virgins" that were just a little too deep at the moment (no insult intended, even I find some things in the bible difficult to understand and I've been studying it for 35 years). Lets back track and keep it simple.

That's all I was trying to say, I over complicated matters and should have done better, sorry,

ok no worries, no insult taken I don't expect myself to understand deeper things I have not heard of before.

Thanks, then I think I understand the basic idea you have explained and it makes sense to me now about the 144.000

You have generally explained yourself well and I am grateful for that.

[Hector Barbosa]

[Replying to post 218 by onewithhim]

But there are no fish in heaven. There is nothing in heaven that you now enjoy here on the earth.

No fish in heaven? How is it heaven then? How do you know this?

The earth is where humans were created to live. Jehovah made it "the best." He has provided everything here on this planet that we could ever need or want. Heaven would not be "better." It is just different. It would be nice to actually see Jehovah and Jesus, but I am happy to be able to live within the parameters of what they originally created for me. Why would I say to Jehovah, "What you created isn't good enough for me"?

Yeah fish are good for you
I am not sure I understand why there would be nothing of what we enjoy on earth in heaven. What is there in heaven then? Where can you read these details about heaven, the Bible do not seem to have that much written about it.

BTW, there will be no individuals like Hitler and Trump in Paradise. Why do you think we have to go to heaven to have perfect conditions?

Well that's at least something, that almost makes up for the no fish

[tam]

Peace to you!

Revelation 5:9,10 does not refer to the great crowd of chapter 7.

Revelation 5:9, 10 refers to those people who Christ purchased with His blood, from every nation, tribe, tongue and people. These ones will rule with Him as kings and priests in His Kingdom.


This is including, but not limited to the 144 000, who are taken from 12 tribes of Israel. This is including all who will have washed their robes in the blood of the lamb (which blood He purchased them WITH), all who are before the throne of God and rendering sacred service (a priestly duty) in His temple, day and night. Such as the great crowd that comes out of the great tribulation will do. But this includes ANY and ALL who belong to Christ, whom He purchased with His blood: those who are alive when He returns as well as those who have died before He returns. We who are alive when Christ returns will be caught up together with those have died, and changed in a twinkling (as Paul describes this).

The ones mentioned in Revelation 5:9,10 are those same 144,000. They are the ones who will rule with Christ. The great crowd does not rule with Christ in heaven. Only the 144,000 will be kings and priests.

There is nothing that states that only the 144 000 will be kings and priests with Christ. The great crowd is before the throne of God and serving Him day and night in His temple.

To the Lamb: "'You are worthy to take the scroll and open its seals, because you were slaughtered and with your blood you bought persons for God out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation, and you made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God, and they are to rule as kings over the earth.'"

Yes!

But there is nothing to state that this is limited to the 12 tribes of the 144 000. Indeed, the text reads that those who rule with Christ have been purchased from every tribe and nation and tongue and people. Not just the twelve tribes of the 144 000.

So, really, those kings and priests that will rule with Christ, the 144,000, are actually taken from every tribe and tongue and people and nation, not just the tribes of Israel.

Do you see what you have done here?

The text states that the 144 000 are taken from 12 tribes (of Israel). The text states that those who rule with Christ (as per rev 5) are purchased from every tribe and nation and tongue and people.


But here you (well, the wts, I assume) are stating something exactly OPPOSITE of what the text states: that the 144 000 are actually taken from every tribe and nation and tongue and people... and not from 12 tribes, as is written.




May you, and any, who wish them be given ears to hear; and may all who seek and all who thirst, hear the Spirit and the Bride say to you, "Come! Take the free gift of the water of Life."



Peace to you one, and to your loved ones,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 221 by onewithhim]

Right. You had no concept of Jesus's resurected body switching between spiritual and physical dimensions until very recently. Did you study your way into that conclusion?

How can you say that I had no concept of Jesus switching between spiritual and physical dimensions until very recently? I have believed that for a long time. I did study my way to that conclusion.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 220 by onewithhim]

Is this another untruth statement?

"No matter where we may live on earth, God’s Word continues to serve as a light to our path and a lamp to our roadway as to our conduct and beliefs. (Ps. 119:105) But Jehovah God has also provided his visible organization, his "faithful and discreet slave", made up of spirit-anointed ones, to help Christians in all nations to unders"No matter where we may live on earth, God’s Word continues to serve as a light to our path and a lamp to our roadway as to our conduct and beliefs. (Ps. 119:105) But Jehovah God has also provided his visible organization, his "faithful and discreet slave", made up of spirit-anointed ones, to help Christians in all nations to understand and apply properly the Bible in their lives. Unless we are in touch with this channel of communication that God is using, we will not progress along the road to life, no matter how much Bible reading we do." Watchtower 1981 Dec 1 p.27tand and apply properly the Bible in their lives. Unless we are in touch with this channel of communication that God is using, we will not progress along the road to life, no matter how much Bible reading we do." Watchtower 1981 Dec 1 p.27

Who is this " faithful and discreet slave "?

The Governing Body of the WTS---the Christian Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 218 by onewithhim]

But there are no fish in heaven. There is nothing in heaven that you now enjoy here on the earth.

No fish in heaven? How is it heaven then? How do you know this?

The earth is where humans were created to live. Jehovah made it "the best." He has provided everything here on this planet that we could ever need or want. Heaven would not be "better." It is just different. It would be nice to actually see Jehovah and Jesus, but I am happy to be able to live within the parameters of what they originally created for me. Why would I say to Jehovah, "What you created isn't good enough for me"?

Yeah fish are good for you
I am not sure I understand why there would be nothing of what we enjoy on earth in heaven. What is there in heaven then? Where can you read these details about heaven, the Bible do not seem to have that much written about it.

BTW, there will be no individuals like Hitler and Trump in Paradise. Why do you think we have to go to heaven to have perfect conditions?

Well that's at least something, that almost makes up for the no fish

LOL!!

[onewithhim]

Peace to you!

Revelation 5:9,10 does not refer to the great crowd of chapter 7.

Revelation 5:9, 10 refers to those people who Christ purchased with His blood, from every nation, tribe, tongue and people. These ones will rule with Him as kings and priests in His Kingdom.


This is including, but not limited to the 144 000, who are taken from 12 tribes of Israel. This is including all who will have washed their robes in the blood of the lamb (which blood He purchased them WITH), all who are before the throne of God and rendering sacred service (a priestly duty) in His temple, day and night. Such as the great crowd that comes out of the great tribulation will do. But this includes ANY and ALL who belong to Christ, whom He purchased with His blood: those who are alive when He returns as well as those who have died before He returns. We who are alive when Christ returns will be caught up together with those have died, and changed in a twinkling (as Paul describes this).

The ones mentioned in Revelation 5:9,10 are those same 144,000. They are the ones who will rule with Christ. The great crowd does not rule with Christ in heaven. Only the 144,000 will be kings and priests.

There is nothing that states that only the 144 000 will be kings and priests with Christ. The great crowd is before the throne of God and serving Him day and night in His temple.

To the Lamb: "'You are worthy to take the scroll and open its seals, because you were slaughtered and with your blood you bought persons for God out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation, and you made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God, and they are to rule as kings over the earth.'"

Yes!

But there is nothing to state that this is limited to the 12 tribes of the 144 000. Indeed, the text reads that those who rule with Christ have been purchased from every tribe and nation and tongue and people. Not just the twelve tribes of the 144 000.

So, really, those kings and priests that will rule with Christ, the 144,000, are actually taken from every tribe and tongue and people and nation, not just the tribes of Israel.

Do you see what you have done here?

The text states that the 144 000 are taken from 12 tribes (of Israel). The text states that those who rule with Christ (as per rev 5) are purchased from every tribe and nation and tongue and people.


But here you (well, the wts, I assume) are stating something exactly OPPOSITE of what the text states: that the 144 000 are actually taken from every tribe and nation and tongue and people... and not from 12 tribes, as is written.




May you, and any, who wish them be given ears to hear; and may all who seek and all who thirst, hear the Spirit and the Bride say to you, "Come! Take the free gift of the water of Life."



Peace to you one, and to your loved ones,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

For what possible reason would there need to be more than a few thousand co-rulers with Christ? 144,000 are quite enough to service the earth while physical people are working to bring it back to perfection. The "great crowd" is all those people who will be working on earth and being GUIDED BY Christ and his co-rulers.