What is there to fault in this?

[Zzyzx]

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What is there to fault in this?

Secular humanism is a non-religious worldview rooted in science, naturalistic philosophy, and humanist ethics. Rather than faith, doctrine, or mysticism, secular humanists use reason, compassion, and common sense to find solutions to human problems. We promote universal values such as integrity, benevolence, fairness, and responsibility, and we believe that with good reason, an open marketplace of ideas, good will, and tolerance, progress can be made toward building a better world for ourselves and future generations.

Humanist is defined as:

a person having a strong interest in or concern for human welfare, values, and dignity. http://www.dictionary.com/browse/humanist

a doctrine, attitude, or way of life centered on human interests or values; especially :  a philosophy that usually rejects supernaturalism and stresses an individual's dignity and worth and capacity for self-realization through reason https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/humanism

A system of thought that focuses on humans and their values, capacities, and worth. http://www.thefreedictionary.com/humanism

One who is concerned with the interests and welfare of humans.
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/humanist


Is there any complaint with the above?

What does religion offer that humanism does not?

[JehovahsWitness]

Is there any complaint with the above?

What does religion offer that humanism does not?

Noble aims but unrealistic, 6000 years of human history testifies that human endeavors have not and if we are honest, cannot result in peace, equality and security. Still for those with nothing else, faith in human enterprise is better than having no faith at all . ..

What does religion offer that humanism does not?

A relationship with God now and everlasting life in the future.

[Zzyzx]

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Is there any complaint with the above?

What does religion offer that humanism does not?

Noble aims but unrealistic,

Exactly the same thing can be said of religions – unrealistic, failed claims / objectives / morals. The question is what does religion offer that humanism does not.

6000 years of human history testifies that human endeavors have not and if we are honest, cannot result in peace, equality and security.

Six thousand years plus of religions, two thousand of Christianity, have not resulted in peace, equality and security (or any other noble objective). What does religion offer that humanism does not.

Still for those with nothing else, faith in human enterprise is better than having no faith at all . ..

Perhaps having 'faith' in humanity is better than having faith in one or more of the thousands of invisible, undetectable, proposed 'gods'.

What does religion offer that humanism does not?

A relationship with God now and everlasting life in the future.

Those are unverified promises made by one of the world's 4000 religions. Can they be shown to be anything more than imagination, wishful thinking, and/or a sales pitch?

So far, there seems as though religion offers NOTHING that secular humanism does not – except unverified promises, claims, tales. AND religion comes with baggage of worshiping a 'god' that cannot be shown to be real.

Meanwhile, religion attempts to claim moral high ground or superiority over (and look down its nose at) secular humanism

[theophile]

[Replying to post 1 by Zzyzx]

What is there to fault in this?

No fault per se. I've long found secular humanism to be in pretty strong accordance with biblical philosophy. (Let's leave that debate aside though!)

However, two things I'd ask for:

First principles. What is the foundation for this worldview? What does it stand on? What must we take for granted in order to get to it, and how valid are those assumptions?

Unified theory. This is a big one, but what I mean is, what happens if we follow these principles through to their logical end? e.g., What political construct does it recommend? What kind of economy? What does it say about things like marriage, abortion, the environment, etc?

I'm not saying there are not answers to these questions, but describing some of the general contours of a worldview is not enough. We need to know what it stands on and what it says about questions of importance.

The devil is in the details.

[JehovahsWitness]

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Is there any complaint with the above?

What does religion offer that humanism does not?

Noble aims but unrealistic,

Exactly the same thing can be said of religions

So you agree that it's unrealistic and fAith based but your argument is that there's something ELSE that is also unrealistic and faith based? Isn't that like replying to someone that tells you "Your wife is ugly" That their wife is uglier? Whether that is the case or not your reply is an admission that your wife is indeed ugly.

[Zzyzx]

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So you agree that it's unrealistic and fAith based but your argument is that there's something ELSE that is also unrealistic and faith based? Isn't that like replying to someone that tells you "Your wife is ugly" That their wife is uglier? Whether that is the case or not your reply is an admission that your wife is indeed ugly.

Exactly my point.

Many Religionists look down their nose at secular humanism (perhaps demonstrated in these debates) with a pretend superiority -- while offering nothing that can be shown to be better.

Notice that the OP asks 'What does religion offer that humanism does not?' The answer appears to be: NOTHING but an empty promise of 'hope' in an imagined / unverified 'afterlife'.

To gain the imagined 'benefit' one is required to worship one of the 'gods'. Job security for clergy and delusion of superiority (available) for proponents.

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 6 by Zzyzx]

I was more referring to the first point: I said it was unrealistic and instead of countering "No it is realistic" you effectively said "So is faith in God" which is by its nature an agreement that, noble as the aims are they ARE indeed unrealistic. Do you see what I'm saying ?

[Zzyzx]

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I was more referring to the first point: I said it was unrealistic and instead of countering "No it is realistic" you effectively said "So is faith in God" which is by its nature an agreement that, noble as the aims are they ARE indeed unrealistic. Do you see what I'm saying ?

I fully agree that the stated aims of Secular Humanism AND Christianity are unrealistic (even if noble).

Thus, Christianity has no 'bragging rights', no demonstrated superiority, no legitimate reason to look askance at the aims of Secular Humanism.

Notice that the OP asks, “What does religion offer that humanism does not?�

The apparent answer is, “Promise [unverified] of reward in a [hypothetical] afterlife.�

[Realworldjack]

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What is there to fault in this?

Secular humanism is a non-religious worldview rooted in science, naturalistic philosophy, and humanist ethics. Rather than faith, doctrine, or mysticism, secular humanists use reason, compassion, and common sense to find solutions to human problems. We promote universal values such as integrity, benevolence, fairness, and responsibility, and we believe that with good reason, an open marketplace of ideas, good will, and tolerance, progress can be made toward building a better world for ourselves and future generations.

Humanist is defined as:

a person having a strong interest in or concern for human welfare, values, and dignity. http://www.dictionary.com/browse/humanist

a doctrine, attitude, or way of life centered on human interests or values; especially :  a philosophy that usually rejects supernaturalism and stresses an individual's dignity and worth and capacity for self-realization through reason https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/humanism

A system of thought that focuses on humans and their values, capacities, and worth. http://www.thefreedictionary.com/humanism

One who is concerned with the interests and welfare of humans.
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/humanist


Is there any complaint with the above?

What does religion offer that humanism does not?

humanists use reason, compassion, and common sense to find solutions to human problems.

If that is the stated goal of "humanism" then that is very admirable goal, but what in the world would this have to do with Christianity? It is not the stated goal, or purpose of Christianity to "find solutions to human problems."

I am a Christian and have no problem with attempting to find solutions to "human problems" but I would not point to my Christian faith, as the solution, or even for the reason that I might be interested in finding the solutions, because the main concern of Christianity is not to "find solutions to human problems."

Christianity may, and has in fact helped people with certain problems, but this would simply be a by product, and not the intended purpose of Christianity.

Many people have no human problems, and become Christians, and their living conditions remain the same, because there was nothing wrong with their living condition to begin with, and they did not become Christians to fix any sort of problem.

Others may become Christians, and may have been living recklessly, which may have caused many human problems, and when they became Christians their living condition improved, because they changed the way in which they lived, but again, this would be the by product, not the intended purpose.

Then there are those who may have had no problems at all, and they become Christians, and because of their conversion, this causes them many human problems that they did not face, before becoming a Christian.

You see, you seem to be confusing the issue, by assuming that if Christianity is not involved in "finding solutions to human problems" then this means it is somehow useless, when this is not the stated purpose?

If the stated purpose of humanism is, "to find solutions to human problems" and they fail at this goal, then you could say it was a failure. However, how can Christianity be referred to as a failure, because it does not "find solutions to human problems" when this is not the stated purpose of Christianity?

There have been many people, from many different walks in life, with many different views, and beliefs, that have contributed greatly to "finding solutions to human problems" INCLUDUNG MANY CHRISTIANS! However, simply because someone is a Christian that may be involved in such things, does not in any way mean, that it is the purpose of Christianity!

[Tired of the Nonsense]

[Replying to post 2 by JehovahsWitness]

Noble aims but unrealistic, 6000 years of human history testifies that human endeavors have not and if we are honest, cannot result in peace, equality and security. Still for those with nothing else, faith in human enterprise is better than having no faith at all . ..

You're one of those "glass is half empty guys," it would seem. What does humanism aspire too?

"a doctrine, attitude, or way of life centered on human interests or values; especially : a philosophy that usually rejects supernaturalism and stresses an individual's dignity and worth and capacity for self-realization through reason."

We've never yet attained such a lofty goal, so why aspire to such a lofty goal? According to you. But you see, such goals are exactly what we SHOULD be aspiring too. Because without lofty goals, there is nothing TO aspire too.

What does religion offer that humanism does not?

A relationship with God now and everlasting life in the future.

Which has been the objective for the eternity of human history, and which has led us to no farther than we are now.

It seems to me that the message of humanism is that, instead of waiting for make believe to save us, how much better would our existence be if we could just eliminate all of the conflict between fellow humans and simply appreciate the mutual fellowship of being human?