WHOSE SIDE WAS GOD ON IN WW2?

[2Dbunk]

Gott mit uns (God is with us) was stamped on the German soldiers belt buckle in both WW1 and WW2. They lost both wars so their very Christian leaders evidently led their youth down the primrose path to destruction. At the same time here in America God has undoubtedly blessed us also (because we are a Christian country), and we were a significant party to winning both wars. I ask how can the same God be on both sides in such global conflicts? Was one (or both) of these nations dissembling in their gross presumption that God had anything to do with their participation in the two wars?

Seneca, a Roman philosopher, once said: Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by rulers as useful. That was about the time of Christ " the world hasnt learned much in all that time, has it? The common people continue to be led by the nose by rulers who know how to manipulate them.

So, whose side was God on in WW2?

Is this a valid question?

Was Seneca wrong in his pronouncement?

[Willum]

[Replying to post 1 by 2Dbunk]

So I've been claiming Jesus' terrestrial direction favored Rome and Caesar, even defying God, so, well, that Christians should be suspicious.

God, is always on the winners' side, of course.
Germany attempts genocide, fails, God was not on their side.
Cortes attempts genocide, succeeds, God was on his side.
In short, you won't find a successful monstrous act that God didn't support, or a failed one that he did. Obviously!

God murders all the world in a flood, that is right-what Satan wanted, right? Satan being jealous of man? God is even on Satan's side, when he wins!

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 1 by 2Dbunk]

Neither.

He was on the side of his son's kingdom Government and his people here on earth that were announcing it. Christianity is incompatible with human war. Jesus told his followers to love their enemies.

JW

[1213]

...
So, whose side was God on in WW2?

That is interesting question in many ways. Firstly, it is not even clear to me who or what they really kept as their god. But it is clear what the Bible says about who are Gods children:

He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning Whoever is born of God doesn't commit sin, because his seed remains in him; and he can't sin, because he is born of God. In this the children of God are revealed, and the children of the devil. Whoever doesn't do righteousness is not of God, neither is he who doesn't love his brother.
1 John 3:7-10

And this is also clear:
For you will bless the righteous. Yahweh, you will surround him with favor as with a shield.
Ps. 5:12

On basis of the Bible, Bible God is on side of the righteous. But were there any righteous people in WW2, I dont know.

However, did the Germans really lose? Now Germany is basically leading the Europe and a lot of Nazis escaped to USA and perhaps infiltrated its system that seems to have adopted many fascistic ideas, like NSA into its governmental system.

All and all, it seems to me that many people lost a lot in WW2 and the greatest lost may have been the loss of dignity. I dont really think there are winners in wars, some just may lose less than others.

And then there is also the issue, what is really win. In Biblical point of view this life seems to be the first death and not really a big win.

For whoever desires to save his life will lose it, and whoever will lose his life for my sake will find it. For what will it profit a man, if he gains the whole world, and forfeits his life? Or what will a man give in exchange for his life?
Matt. 16:25-26

He said to his disciples, "Therefore I tell you, don't be anxious for your life, what you will eat, nor yet for your body, what you will wear. Life is more than food, and the body is more than clothing Don't seek what you will eat or what you will drink; neither be anxious. For the nations of the world seek after all of these things, but your Father knows that you need these things. But seek God's Kingdom, and all these things will be added to you.
Luke 12:22-31

Don't lay up treasures for yourselves on the earth, where moth and rust consume, and where thieves break through and steal; but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust consume, and where thieves don't break through and steal; for where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.
Matt. 6:19-21

In Biblical point of view the order of values seems to be very different than what property centered people have.

Religions are different matter, I dont think Bible speaks about religion and it is not about founding religion, but about truth and righteousness. So, I have no reason to defend religions, they may be like all governments, evil means to control people and get their money and freedom. In my opinion Seneca seems to be right about religions and about rulers.

[Divine Insight]

[Replying to post 1 by 2Dbunk]

Neither.

He was on the side of his son's kingdom Government and his people here on earth that were announcing it. Christianity is incompatible with human war. Jesus told his followers to love their enemies.

JW

But you seem to be forgetting that Jesus was a hypocrite in his teachings:

Luke 22:36 Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

This would be like telling someone today to go out and buy a gun.

Matthew 10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.

In Matthew 10:34 Jesus warns you not to think that he had come to send peace on earth. Why do you not quote these verses?

[JehovahsWitness]

In Matthew 10:34 Jesus warns you not to think that he had come to send peace on earth. Why do you not quote these verses?

I have in my previons post. I will link to the post


LINK
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 068#839068

[2Dbunk]

[Replying to post 3 by JehovahsWitness]

Nice picture! Interesting info on the nun who joined the French underground as an assassin. My wife took top marksmanship at the police academy. She once split her first arrow after scoring a bulls-eye in high school gym archery class. Her teacher dared her to repeat the "lucky" shot -- and she did, splitting the first arrow. I know first hand 'cause she split my heart with cupid's arrow and now I'm her devoted slave. Who says women can't shoot . . . 'course they can -- AND SHOULD!

He was on the side of his son's kingdom Government and his people here on earth that were announcing it. Christianity is incompatible with human war. Jesus told his followers to love their enemies.

This seems to contradict Mathew 10:34 where Jesus says, "Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to earth, but a sword."

I have since seen your link but I'm still confused. Confusion of what the holy texts say seems to be the order of the day. How can one sort his or her spiritual priorities out with such conflicting rhetoric (especially in the light of other conflicting religions or secularism)?

[JehovahsWitness]

I have since seen your link but I'm still confused. Confusion of what the holy texts say seems to be the order of the day. )?

Love your enemies is the clearest of instructions. Jesus said his disciples would be recognized by the love they showed to each other. It is as clear as day that I cannot claim to love my German or Japanese brothers and sisters and also try to kill them.

The Bible says to view older Christans as mothers, younger ones as sisters, how much would your President have to pay you to put a bullet in your mother's head or to drop a bomb on your kids.

If people are "confused" about Jesus most Fundamental command how much can they know. Has mankind fallen so far they don't understand a command to love one another?

How can one sort his or her spiritual priorities out with such conflicting rhetoric (especially in the light of other conflicting religions or secularism)?

Don't study religion study the bible, it will lead the way ...if you let it.

[Zzyzx]

.
If several devout Christian soldiers are in a building and an opposing army tank aims its big gun at the building. I'll bet those devout Christians REALLY LOVE the enemy in that tank. If the first round destroys much of the building but doesn't kill them, they must REALLY LOVE the men reloading for a second round.

A military unit with which I served many decades ago had a motto that seems more applicable: 'It is not our job to judge the enemy. That is his maker's responsibility when they meet. Our job is to arrange the meeting.'

[William]

Essentially GOD is on GODs side, and as can be seen, this is translated differently depending on the interpretations of those who take sides, locked into their reasons for doing so.

What humans do in relation to warring and taking sides in order to do so, is not any barrier to GODs agenda re the Earth and the future.