Does God change his mind?

[OnceConvinced]

A Christian member of our forum recently pointed out a bible contradiction for all to see:

This verse was presented first:
Numbers 23:19 "God is not human, that he should lie, not a human being, that he should change his mind."

The Christian then attempted to trump it with a contradictory scripture where God DOES change his mind, thus exposing a blatant bible contradiction:

Jeremiah 18:8 "But if that nation about which I spoke turns from its evil way, I'll change my mind about the disaster that I had planned for it."

Here are further verses that show God changing his mind:

Exodus 32:14
So the LORD changed His mind about the harm which He said He would do to His people.

Amos 7:3
The LORD changed His mind about this. "It shall not be," said the LORD.

Jeremiah 18:10
if it does evil in My sight by not obeying My voice, then I will think better of the good with which I had promised to bless it. (wow this is a verse where God says he will break his promise!!)


So questions for debate:

Does Got change his mind?
If he does change his mind, how do we know he hasn't changed his mind about much of what he expected from us in the New Testament?
If he does change his mind, how can we really know what he wants of us today?

[Justin108]

Do you agree with the following scripture?

"When under trial, let no one say: I am being tried by God. For with evil things God cannot be tried, nor does he himself try anyone." But each one is tried by being drawn out and enticed by his own desire." James 1:13, 14

I fail to see how this verse suggests that God cannot see the future?

Because I don't see anywhere that it says our desires are pre-made or even predicted.

No but the fact that God accurately predicts things like the 30 pieces of silver strongly suggests that God can see the future.

Can God tell the future? Or does God simply guess? You seem to constantly avoid this question

I don't have a preferred narrative. I'm an atheist so frankly I don't really care what the Bible says.

This statement is an oxymoron.

How is this an oxymoron? Regardless of what the Bible says, it does not affect my belief as I do not believe in God. This is not true for you as what the Bible says is important to you. So if the Bible says something you disagree with, you are placed in a stare of cognitive dissonance. I am not. So please explain to me how my statement is an oxymoron?

You're saying you don't have a preferred narrative while at the same time acknowledging not caring what the Bible says.

Yes. There is nothing oxymoronic about this.

In order to have a preferred narrative, you actually have to care about the Bible. I do not care about the Bible and so I do not have a preferred narrative. Super simple stuff

So clearly you do have a preferred narrative if you don't care what something tells you and your agenda is that of an atheist. So of course you're going to prefer the narrative that makes God responsible for all the evil in the world.

So you think I'm just out to make God evil? I don't believe in God so why would I care if he's evil or not? It makes no difference to me. It certainly makes a difference to you though.

[2timothy316]

It makes no difference to me. It certainly makes a difference to you though.

And that is what lets me know you have a preferred narrative. Ya should've left out that last sentence. It tells me that you're taking the opposite side just because of my stance on God.

[Justin108]

It makes no difference to me. It certainly makes a difference to you though.

And that is what lets me know you have a preferred narrative. Ya should've left out that last sentence.

Wait so the fact that the text has no influence on me means I have a preferred narrative...?

It tells me that you're taking the opposite side just because of my stance on God.

This is simply not true. JehovahsWitness (if I'm not mistaken) agrees with me on God's ability to see the future. Him and I, despite being on opposite sides of the God debate, agree on this issue. I am not simply taking the opposite positions of all the theists on this site. I take the position of what scripture says. The fact that God knows things hundreds of years in advance clearly suggests that God knows the future.

Anyway I'll ask again. I see you keep avoiding me: Can God tell the future? Or does God simply guess?

[2timothy316]

Anyway I'll ask again. I see you keep avoiding me: Can God tell the future? Or does God simply guess?

I have answered this 3 times now. Jehovah knows the future because He actively makes the future He wants without controlling people's choices. And you can't accept this because it seems impossible to you. To know with 100% certainly what a person chooses is predestination and I do not accept that. God doesn't guess, He makes happen or allows certain things to that happen while suppressing others. In the Bible it shows God doing this many times. Keeping His Son alive until the 'proper hour' is one. Yet God allowed Satan's plans to kill Jesus to succeed but on His timetable and on the date He wanted.

The Bible says, "From the beginning I foretell the outcome, And from long ago the things that have not yet been done. I say, My decision will stand, And I will do whatever I please." - Isaiah 46:10

There are some words here people overlook. That His decisions will stand and that He will do whatever He pleases. To do whatever He pleases means He is actively guiding what happens or allowing to happen whatever He wants to happen. This wouldn't mean He'd need to look at some DVD of the future. Because if God made all things, then guess who made the DVD of the future? That means the Jehovah can make the future happen the way He wants without looking at people's future choices. Jehovah can even look at a person's thoughts and see their plans. But He doesn't look for plans that no one has made yet. If He could, that would be predestination.

You are stuck that God can only know something one way and find anything else unbelievable. Yet with God all things are possible. Even predicting the future without knowing peoples choices.

[Justin108]

Jehovah knows the future because He actively makes the future He wants without controlling people's choices.

Please explain how God made sure the traitor was paid exactly 30 pieces of silver without controlling anyone's choices?

[2timothy316]

Jehovah knows the future because He actively makes the future He wants without controlling people's choices.

Please explain how God made sure the traitor was paid exactly 30 pieces of silver without controlling anyone's choices?

I don't know exactly how. I only know He didn't force them because God cannot be part or or in the presence of any evil plot. He can suppress them and allow them but can't help make them happen. So however it happened, it wasn't predestined and Jehovah didn't make them do it.

"For you are not a God who takes pleasure in wickedness; No one bad may remain with you. No arrogant person may stand in your presence. You hate all those who behave wickedly;" Ps 5:4, 5

He simply can't help the wicked and a person's wickedness can't be known before it's planned because that would equal people are fated.

[Justin108]

Jehovah knows the future because He actively makes the future He wants without controlling people's choices.

Please explain how God made sure the traitor was paid exactly 30 pieces of silver without controlling anyone's choices?

I don't know exactly how.

So you insist that God did this, but you cannot come up with a method how?

I only know He didn't force them because God cannot be part in the presence of any evil plot.

Right. So that leaves a third option that God knew the future. You just refuse to accept this possibility, even though your suggestion makes absolutely no sense.

God somehow knew exactly how much silver the traitor would get 500+ years in advance without knowing the future and without controlling anyone's actions. You cannot begin to explain how God did this but you assume this is the case anyway

[2timothy316]

Jehovah knows the future because He actively makes the future He wants without controlling people's choices.

Please explain how God made sure the traitor was paid exactly 30 pieces of silver without controlling anyone's choices?

I don't know exactly how.

So you insist that God did this, but you cannot come up with a method how?

I don't know how God did many things. For the thoughts of you people are not my thoughts, nor are my ways your ways, is the utterance of Jehovah. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so my ways are higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts. (Isaiah 55:8, 9)

I have to accept that.

I only know He didn't force them because God cannot be part in the presence of any evil plot.

Right. So that leaves a third option that God knew the future. You just refuse to accept this possibility, even though your suggestion makes absolutely no sense.

To know the future choices of someone before they make them is to accept that their choices were premade. This is not acceptable. If that doesn't make sense, sorry. We have to accept there are somethings we not meant to know. "He said to them: It does not belong to you to know the times or seasons that the Father has placed in his own jurisdiction." Acts 1:7

God somehow knew exactly how much silver the traitor would get 500+ years in advance without knowing the future and without controlling anyone's actions. You cannot begin to explain how God did this but you assume this is the case anyway

That is correct. For the thoughts of you people are not my thoughts, nor are my ways your ways, is the utterance of Jehovah. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so my ways are higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts. (Isaiah 55:8, 9)

"Looking straight at them Jesus said: With men it is impossible, but not so with God, for all things are possible with God. Mark 10:27.

[Justin108]

I don't know how God did many things. For the thoughts of you people are not my thoughts, nor are my ways your ways, is the utterance of Jehovah. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so my ways are higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts. (Isaiah 55:8, 9)

I have to accept that.

Why deny the possibility that God simply sees the future?

To know the future choices of someone before they make them is to accept that their choices were premade. This is not acceptable. If that doesn't make sense, sorry.

This is your reasoning, not the Bible's. But as you just pointed out...

For the thoughts of you people are not my thoughts, nor are my ways your ways, is the utterance of Jehovah. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so my ways are higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts. (Isaiah 55:8, 9)

God somehow knew exactly how much silver the traitor would get 500+ years in advance without knowing the future and without controlling anyone's actions. You cannot begin to explain how God did this but you assume this is the case anyway

That is correct. For the thoughts of you people are not my thoughts, nor are my ways your ways, is the utterance of Jehovah. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so my ways are higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts. (Isaiah 55:8, 9)

"Looking straight at them Jesus said: With men it is impossible, but not so with God, for all things are possible with God. Mark 10:27.

So God can do that which is logically impossible? God can somehow know the future (30 pieces of silver) without actually knowing the future? God can make people do something (pay 30 pieces of silver) without making people do something? Can God also make a triangle with 4 sides? Can God make a rock too heavy for him to lift?

[Blastcat]

[Replying to post 149 by Justin108]

Why deny the possibility that God simply sees the future?

I don't think he believes that the god of the Bible is omniscient.